Sedan sport fisherman?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 27th, '14, 18:22

Captain Patrick is it possible this 31 sedan came from factory without bulkhead?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 27th, '14, 18:53

Bob,

Don't know what B31 you're refering to, but yes a sedan could have been ordered with the head, (normally on port side), moved to the V-berth and without an aft bulkhead. It would essentially be a sportfish without a flybridge. Could have been ordered that way also...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 27th, '14, 19:52

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 27th, '14, 20:03

The coaming of the house structure is that of a sporthfish....

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jan 27th, '14, 20:53

Bob Lico,
I remember when I was looking for a 31 Express, I ran across a sedan with the open back and the head in the V-berth, I wanted an express because of the enclosed head, no climbing bridge ladders, I had a bad knee way back then in 1978. The sedan was on Cape Cod at Onset Bay Marina they were a Bertram dealer at that time. In 1979 I was at the Bertram factory and asked Richard Kidd about the sedan and he said that Bertram built a bunch of sedans for the Miami/Ft Lauderdale area because there were a lot of low bridges on the canals especially over on Miami Beach near the convention center and off of Los Olas Blvd in Ft Lauderdale. At the Ft Lauderdale show about 10 years ago Richard Mastry had a 31 sedan that they were using as a demo boat same set up as the one in your picture no tower, they were pushing the Yanmar repowers at that show and a bunch of the guys lead by UV went for a ride on the demo boat.
Pete Fallon

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 27th, '14, 21:30

Pete I thank you for the information. I never saw or heard of this model.the boat seems abandon and stuck in the ice.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 27th, '14, 22:07

bob lico wrote:Pete I thank you for the information. I never saw or heard of this model.the boat seems abandon and stuck in the ice.

Could be a collectors item Bob. Would actually make a nice set up.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 27th, '14, 22:11

First, lets find the person who left this in the ice and kick their

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 27th, '14, 22:17

So will you guys explain to a southern boy......how bad and what kind of damage does a boat suffer when frozen in the ice????......like the one in the pic that Bob posted

hb

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 27th, '14, 22:26

Harry,

Depends on how thick and solid the ice is, but it can crack or even crush a fiberglass hull...

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 27th, '14, 22:44

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 27th, '14, 23:28

I figured it may burst thru hull fittings and related plumbing but did not know it could damage or destroy a hull.

The general concensus here is that the engine room will not get colder than the water the boat is floating in.

I cannot imagine that the water here in Alabama would ever get colder than 45 or 50 degrees......in a normal winter.

Weather guys are predicting a "Winter Mix" tomorrow evening......sleet and snow......everybody around here if freaking out right now.....closing schools tomorrow.....issuing travel warnings.....buying storm supplies.....will be interesting to see just how it all shakes out......

More to come! ! !

hb

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 27th, '14, 23:36

Bob, is the boat named "Marauder"?

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 28th, '14, 00:04

Harry...

One of the problems I saw when I lived in the frigid north before I came to my senses and moved south was the damage ice could do to the exterior of the hull at the water line. Usually we didn't see the salt water freeze into chunks of ice, but in especially cold times thin sheets of ice would form on the water surface. As the tide ebbed and flowed the ice would move back and forth at the waterline and actually act like a saw blade and score a groove in the gelcoat. The only time I ever saw large chunks of ice was when fresh water streams and rivers carried ice down to the salt water from the flats upriver. Often ice would collect on the flats for days as the tide came and went, and an especially high tide would lift it and carry it out into open water.

The only times I recall seeing salt water actually freeze solid was in harbors in extremely cold weather which lasted for many days, and even then it was only an inch or two, but the old timers said winters seventy to a hundred years ago got cold enough that the ocean froze solid enough to drive cars on it.. which is how they got autos out to the harbor islands. In a small local museum they had old pictures of teams of horses pulling large sled loads of lumber and other building materials out to the harbor islands.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 28th, '14, 06:42

harry
therse stories of cars driving from greenport over to shelter island years ago on ice

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jan 28th, '14, 07:07

bob lico wrote:Pete I thank you for the information. I never saw or heard of this model.the boat seems abandon and stuck in the ice.

Bob .... Where is it located ?

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jan 28th, '14, 07:10

South side of shelter island to the south fork is only about 200 yards .... I could easily see that freezing.
Parts of Sag Harbor are frozen now.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '14, 08:21

Boat is located in a small marina near fire island ferry yard in Sayville.coke bottle green glass windshield sets it apart from regular Bertram windshield. 1977 winter cars drove across to fire island from Sayville about 4 miles that was the last time in can remember in 40 years that bay froze to at least 2' thick.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 28th, '14, 09:21

Bob,

My Dad has pictures of Ice boats and VW bugs on the bay from 1977 at the house. I was only 4 so I don't remember.

My boat is currently in the water in Babylon, I'm way up river just down stream from a waterfall. That water flows enough that the water doesn't freeze to any significance around the boat. While most of the bay is frozen I have no problems. I had skim ice last week when we were in the single digits, It was 12 degrees at 7AM this morning and the water was not frozen. All through hulls have been winterized, dropped the pink stuff in the bilge and ran the pumps.

Thus far I've survived two significant hurricanes and 4 blizzards, countless cold weather freezes and snow storms. You ask why? I have a cockpit cover and it cost $250 to keep it in the water for the winter. Short haul in the spring to clean the bottom, paint and change the zincs and I'm back in business.

I don't winterize until Christmas/New Years and she is openned up and ready to go by St. Patricks Day. The worst time of year is the fall when I have to bring down the shop vac and get rid of the leaves.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jan 28th, '14, 09:31

We used to drive on the shallower parts of Barnegat Bay in the '70s. Stupid stuff you do as a younger man.

That is until some guys started venturing out to the deeper water and fell through.

In the late '50s and into the '70s there was always skating through the pilings at the marinas, and ice boats on the bay. Our pilings for the dock slip (20 feet into the mud) would be lifted every year. The water freezes around the piling, then the tide goes up. The bond between the ice and the piling was strong enough to lift the pilings.

Regards,

Joe

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jan 28th, '14, 09:37

That's a bummer. Its a sweet set up. Pretty model. I like driving from that tower. Good looking ride that is completely neglected.

STraenkle · Post by **STraenkle** » Jan 28th, '14, 15:51

Yes ice scratches the boat pretty good, could crush the hull, but most issues come from the bilge water freezing. Bilge pumps can't move ice and snow. Up here it gets very cold, then warms up to rain from moisture to the south, then back to cold. Most boats left out and are not attended sink from snow and ice load. See several a year go down. Had one guy who moors near the house, four years ago, his crappy 20 something Bayliner sank, new to him boat the next year, sea ray, he leaves that one out for the winter, it sinks, now he has a 40 Trojan, I guess he is "moving up" from the insurance money, but can't imagine his insurance payments are now.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '14, 17:16

Tommy I checked that Bertram today that is the name on transom. How did you know?

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jan 28th, '14, 18:13

bob lico wrote:Tommy I checked that Bertram today that is the name on transom. How did you know?

Speaking for Tommy ...... There was a Soundings article a few years back about "Bertram 31 - best boat ever built" (I have a copy still - that now seems to have disappeared).
The boat is on the cover.

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Jan 28th, '14, 18:49

This is what a sedan is supposed to look like this time of year in the northeast... 2 year old shrink-wrap, holding up unbelievably..

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jan 28th, '14, 20:04

IRGuy,
My father told me that when he was about 9 years old he drove to Misery Island with my great uncle who was a Salem firefighter, he had a model t. That would have been around 1919, I have seen those pictures of Salem harbor completely frozen over, since they built the power plant I have seen it freeze almost to Abbott Rock day beacon from Juniper Point bacdk to the CG base, the entire coastline was frozen over in the mid 70's.
Pete Fallon

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 28th, '14, 20:48

Bob, Steve is correct; that boat graced the cover of Soundings magazine that had the article "best boat ever...". As others have stated, a shame to see her neglected.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 28th, '14, 22:20

1977 every thing froze all the way down to Boston Harbor. I remember a number of years when Ice Boating on Barnegat Bay and up around the Hook were common. I knew a couple of guys who used to build and race ice boats.

Hey are talking Global Warming? LOL

that 77 freeze, did have guys drivng on the ice in the bay. The issue was in the deeper water around the channels. That is were the ice was soft. That summer Canyon fishing was horrible. Too much fresh water coming out of the Hudson from all the snow melt up north.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jan 29th, '14, 08:09

Tommy,

I thought that boat had a blue hull. I will check, as I still have a copy of that mag. I sure hope its not the same girl!!!!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 29th, '14, 10:56

here is a better photo . john,tommy i think this is the 31 portrayed in Soundings .what a shame!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jan 29th, '14, 12:53

Brewster Minton wrote:WHY?

It's called the anomaly of water... Water is the only substance that will expand when it freezes... Everything else will contract...

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 30th, '14, 08:13

Dug, you are correct that the 31 "Marauder" that graced the August 1998 Soundings cover sported a dark blue hull. This was the issue titled "The Bertram 31; Best Boat Ever?". I pulled the issue and compared the 31 on the cover with the photo in this thread, and they definitely are the same boat (the custom tower confirms), so it has been painted since the cover photo. A buggy top has also been added since the Soundings photo.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 30th, '14, 11:56

I save everything!

Jamie MacKenzie · Post by **Jamie MacKenzie** » Jan 31st, '14, 15:22

We had a lot of surface ice the last few weeks in Liberty Harbor Marina and Hudson Point. It makes me double glad that I forked over a few extra bucks to haul Girl Friday and keep her on land for the winter. I grew up in Michigan--but we used bubblers on the pilings and docks and the few boats that wintered in the water.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 31st, '14, 15:24

That's the one......thanks Mikey!

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jan 31st, '14, 17:09

whoa .. no lower station !! ....and is that a transome door ??

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 31st, '14, 17:50

I get more pm's then the capt. But I think I will get hate mail now. Here goes; I really like the sedan and with the open back it makes it the ultimate fishing boat . This would be the THE project boat with triple 315hp Yanmars / out drives or I have access to 9 common rail cummins in conjunction with dual jack shaft mercruiser out drives a 45 knot canyon fisherman.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 1st, '14, 10:58

bob lico wrote:I get more pm's then the capt. But I think I will get hate mail now. Here goes; I really like the sedan and with the open back it makes it the ultimate fishing boat . This would be the THE project boat with triple 315hp Yanmars / out drives or I have access to 9 common rail cummins in conjunction with dual jack shaft mercruiser out drives a 45 knot canyon fisherman.

Oh you don't want that boat Bob, the Head is in the V-Berth

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 1st, '14, 11:16

Carl I have a " " game changer" but will not reveal it at this time.a real stand up head ,full privacy is a requirement or I would not own the boat.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 1st, '14, 11:40

If your putting in a full standup Head...you might as well just go with the Express

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Feb 1st, '14, 12:10

Guy's,
The hell with the sedan the Express is the only way to go for a 6'3", one legged Irishman, full stand up enclosed head, Same boat as a FBC without having to climb a ladder. Cockpit is huge and the boat is fast 40 miles an hour with 454 7.4 L Mercruiser FWC TBFI with Hurth 8 degree down angle trannies and low profile struts big rudders(original OEM Bertram) 5 " exhaust. Now let's have a fish off.
Pete Fallon

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 1st, '14, 12:20

Carl when you sit on the bridge of a FBC you can observe everything around the boat .driving a sedan from the top like this boat allows you the same advantage .my boat has ONE way glass on sides and cockpit ( limousine tinted ,tempered glass) .you can put a limousine glass wall were the main bulkhead wall would have been. Finish even with engine cover and solid below and put stand up head in original location of express,FBC.a rounded door to the head like the capt. Builds would compliment the lines.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Feb 1st, '14, 14:15

Pete,
I'm with you. Even for a 5'6" Irishman it works. Whether cruising or fishing you are in the cockpit with the gang, not up a ladder.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 2nd, '14, 10:47

Bob- your preaching to the quire here. Full cabin, lower helm to be in the action or go up to a short tower for a full 360 view with perfect visibility...a bit more then a FBC, but not high to the point it offsets the boats balance or becomes a whipping station in seas.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 2nd, '14, 11:00

Nice real nice with a tower makes the boat.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Feb 2nd, '14, 13:39

Carl,
Is the boat in the picture your boat? Looks like a clone of mine, only difference is I've got a blue bottom, red boot stripe and a black window and rub rail trim. Nice looking boat.
Pete Fallon

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 2nd, '14, 14:35

Whoa ! Hold on I don't climb no stickin ladder! ONE step on the bridge .faster then you can take to swivel that pilot chair and get off engine cover. Practice my friend practice. But if I wanted to I have hand held to steer the boat . I only use this trick on tuna because I am the only one gaffing that sob because inevitably I am the one painting over the gaff marks in spring!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 2nd, '14, 20:00

Pete Fallon wrote:Carl,
Is the boat in the picture your boat? Looks like a clone of mine, only difference is I've got a blue bottom, red boot stripe and a black window and rub rail trim. Nice looking boat.
Pete Fallon

Yes Pete that is mine. Appreciate the complement...although not to many " bad" looking 31's in my opinion. The one in Isreal may be the one exception to that rule...the one with that home made camper top...
I think yours is a white hull too if I recall, I like yours better. Mine is desert sand....tan....not my favorite color, but painting hull has always played second fiddle to other projects. I bought boat with brown bottom, a brown boot stripe and brown Bimini top....really didn't like that scheme and switched to black and added riggers to give height....then added tower.

Bob...don't get too far ahead of yourself. Fishing in the thick of it...I am standing on motorbox looking over the poles, riggers and the water...abit slower day of fishing, the helm chair is facing stern and I can be at pole faster then you can swing your leg off the chair.

Now the neat trick...I can fish short handed. Fish on...I can fight fish, walk to helm while fighting, back down, spin boat, maneuver around obstacles. Putting lines out or checking them on lousy days...no problem. Toss lure over the stern and bring pole to helm to put out while keeping boat tracking your course or zigging and zagging thru the fleet.

Access to and from Tower is not bad...but definetey not a one step motion...especially not in the beginning....lots of head butts into the not so soft Aluminum.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Feb 3rd, '14, 00:00

Carl .... nice boat
In all of this chatter .... if ya don't want to climb a ladder or steps ......repeat after me
B-A-H-I-A ..... M-A-R !!!

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Feb 3rd, '14, 00:05

Steve,
You might not have to climb steps in the Bahia Mar but the head is the V-berth, can you say EXPRESS.
Pete Fallon