Motor Value

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Jan 5th, '14, 21:37

Hey guys what do you think the value is of two Yanmar 315 with 230 hours on them ZF trans
1-34" shafts 4 blade props and rudders all wiring everything complete boat was scrapped came out of a 28' Raballo that the hull was breaking up on so they sawzalled it and dumped it.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 5th, '14, 21:43

Keith

Check the shaft length. Long is ok you can always cut it down. If it is too short, all the water in the world will not make it longer.

Maybe Bruce can give you an idea of the value of the engines.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 6th, '14, 11:30

I got the same thing for 24k 6 years ago.I put 11/2 shafts and had to buy new 4 blades.

ed c. · Post by **ed c.** » Jan 10th, '14, 11:23

With those hours you should get no less than $30K. They are are always in demand. There was a lot of doubt about them at first, but they have a good reputation. If you are selling them in Gov. Moonbeam's state I would add at least 20%.

JohnV8r · Post by **JohnV8r** » Jan 21st, '14, 03:03

Keith,

From Gold Coast Power this week re 6LPA-STP's that they currently have for sale:

Gold Coast Power Item Number: 86381
Approximate price: $22,500.00
FOB: (S. FLA, EACH)
Description: These Yanmar 6LPA-STP (mechanical) marine engines are rated @ 315 hp each. These engines are in the process of being dealer reconditioned. They are heat exchanger cooled with water cooled manifold(s) and raw water pump and exhaust elbows. Can be test run for inspection or survey for qualified buyer with deposit.

That is a price for dealer (Mastry) reconditioned engines. $30K for used 6LPA's regardless of reported low hours is not realistic. There was a premium being charged for the last 6LPA's available here in CA, but that was for the last of the new Yannies from the factory. Not sure why anyone would expect there to be a 20% upcharge for CA unless someone was confusing the temporary premium charged for the last of the new 6LPA's with what the market actually is now.

If anything, the strength of the Cummins reman program and precipitous nose dive Yanmar is taking in the marine market here in CA are going to dictate the price. Cummins factory remanufactured 6BTA 5.9's at 330 hp are $22,267 with a warranty.

Gears, shafts, and wheels are so installation specific, I'm not sure I would even try to sell them as a package deal. For example, I don't think 1 3/4" shafts will fit in the original Bertram struts. I don't think you can bore them out that much. Bruce or Capt. Patrick could give you a definitive answer. Are the gears ZF220's?

I'm in the market for engines in the next 60 days for my repower on Shambala. The SF Bay Area has a much better Yanmar guy (List Marine) than Cummins has up here. Also, I personally think the 6LPA's sound better than the 6BTA's. However, there is no denying that service is more complicated and parts are more expensive (and getting worse from what I hear) on the 6LPA's. From my perspective, with dealer reconditioned Yanmar 6LPA's on the market with some regularity at $22,500 the price would have to be a deal for me to take the risk on used engines that have been sitting for a while and whose history (correctly propped in previous application? run hard? serviced professionally? reported hours accurate?) is unknown.

I think in the end you're probably looking at $15-$17K for the engines alone. IMO used 6LPA's above $15-17K are a really hard sell against dealer reconditioned Yanmar 6LPA's at $22,500 and Cummins remanufactured 330 hp 6BTA's with a full warranty at $22,267.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Jan 21st, '14, 03:21

thanks guys

what is their full warranty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Yanmar-6LP ... f4&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JohnV8r · Post by **JohnV8r** » Jan 21st, '14, 13:38

Keith,

Cummins' warranty on remanufactured engines is 2 years or 2000 hours. Extended warranties can also be purchased on the factory remans. Cummins remans are purchased through their regional distributor network, so it's not like they are three time zones away if there is an issue.

The New York Yannies in your link seem to be just a little higher in price than what you will find in Florida. If you look around, you will also find there are "dealer" refurbished 6LP's available in Washington state from time to time.

It seems a little ironic that the core charge for the Yanmars in your link is identical to the Cummins reman core charge even though the Yanmars are not part of a Yanmar corporate program like the Cummins factory remans. The $22,267 I mentioned for the Cummins 6BTA's included the $3537 core charge. It's not clear from the eBay ad whether the $3500 core charge is in addition to the price listed or included in the price.

The link below will give you an example of the used 6LP inventory you can find. No core charge was mentioned in my communication about price, etc.

http://www.goldcoastpower.com/product_a ... pageload=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are a couple of other points to consider:

Without starting a Holy War, the Yanmar's are great engines in a Bertram 31. In my experience, they are quieter at idle than the Cummins 6BTA's, have a more pleasant tone than the 6BTA's through all rpm ranges, and produce virtually zero smoke. I thought the first B31 I got on with 6LP's in it was gas powered because it was so quiet at idle. In 2003 when I was about to pull the trigger on a repower, they were the obvious choice. Here are 6LP numbers I got from Mastry back in '02:

The flip side: When you consider that in '02 Mastry would have sold 6LPA-STP's with gears and a trolling valve for $20,105, it's hard to understand the price for "dealer" reconditioned 6LP's today. I get that availability drives the market, but the Cummins reman'd 6BTA pricing is more in line with the '02 Yanmar pricing. That makes sense when you consider they are mechanical engines based on the technology of that same period. However, the 6LP's have an almost mythical following now that they're out of production the way Fin Nor reels did in the late 70's/early 80's when they started getting scarce. Who would have bought a Fin Nor reel over a Shimano Tiagra or a Penn International by the late '80's/early '90's?

After months of researching which engines to go with, I can find nothing from a performance and maintenance standpoint that makes a used 6LP more desirable than a factory remanufactured Cummins 6BTA. There is certainly no logical reason I can come up with to pay a premium for a "dealer" refurbished 6LP versus a factory remanufactured 6BTA. There is no price advantage, there is no performance advantage, there is no parts/maintenance advantage, and certainly no warranty advantage. You can argue the virtues of each engine back and forth until you're spinning - believe me, I have. In the end, I can really only point to the fact that my personal preference is for the sound/tone of the 6LP's over the 6BTA's. However, that is not enough for me at this point to dismiss all the other value points of the 6BTA reman program.

IMO, Cummins has a clear advantage with their reman program. For me, you can't overcome the Cummins advantage until the 6LP's are at least $5K less than reman'd 6BTA's. Even then, I'm not sure...

I thought you had a pair of 6LP's that you picked up last May. Why the interest in another pair?

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 21st, '14, 16:26

John-

Thanks for all the info.

JohnV8r · Post by **JohnV8r** » Jan 21st, '14, 16:55

You're welcome.

One other quick point to really throw a monkey in the analysis is this: Seamaster Marine - an "unauthorized Cummins dealer" (his words not mine) in North Palm Beach sells complete rebuilt 6BTA 5.9's as follows:

210 hp = $12,000
270 hp = $12,500
330 hp = $13,500

All of my internet research turned up nothing but positive comments about the owner, Ron Laycock. There is a six week lead time right now for delivery of engines, but the deposit required to get in line is $100.

Here's a link: http://seamastermarine.com/index.html

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 21st, '14, 17:30

There's possibly a reason that Ronny Laycock, (Seamaster Marine, LLC), describes himself as an unauthorized Cummins dealer... Cummins probably won't underwright his "brand" of rebuilding.

Warranty period: Rebuilt Engines for pleasure boats are (only) warranted for 6 months. By the time you get the engine(s), get 'em installed, and everything ready for sea trial, you've just about used up your warranty period...

Buyer beware.

JohnV8r · Post by **JohnV8r** » Jan 21st, '14, 19:06

Capt. Patrick,

You raise an interesting point on a broader level. Clearly, the Cummins remanufacturing program is the gold standard for delivering a consistent product. The Cummins remanufactured 6BTA's conjure up a higher level of expectation to me than a marine engine dealer/reseller/repair shop directly "rebuilding" or "refurbishing" an engine. The Cummins factory remans are essentially new mechanical diesels. I wouldn't necessarily have the same quality expectations for "dealer rebuilt/refurbished" engines.

That said, when you see a pair of 6LPA's or 6BTA's that state they have been "dealer refurbished" or "dealer remanufactured", what should the expectation for the work done be? Certainly not every marine mechanic that rebuilds an engine works for either Yanmar or Cummins or even an authorized service center. For example, the best Detroit Diesel mechanic in the SF Bay Area is not affiliated with Detroit in any way, shape, or form.

I'm reading between the lines of your reference to Ron Laycock as "Ronny" and the "buyer beware" comment to mean you have some knowledge of the Seamaster product on some level. Enough said.

However, how does a guy like Keith Poe (who started this thread) by asking about "rebuilt" Yanmars that are for sale on eBay by an independent mechanic determine whether he's dealing with an honest guy or a shyster? For that matter, how would you determine if the engines for sale at Gold Coast Power that claim to be "dealer refurbished" are anything worth considering?

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Jan 21st, '14, 20:52

Thanks for the info too John. I do have to ask this as well- if you would even consider a non Cummins or Yanmar reman and the lower expectations that follow, why not the RTO idea with a survey/ health check? And not to mention what about all the parts around the reman that is complete, alternator, starter, harness for corrosion, etc..Don't all those things have to work together not just the long block and injector pump? I too thought about the temptation of this lower pricing online search thing but stopped when I thought about some don't claim to use factory engine build parts or possibly even procedures for proper reman. My intuition says no don't do that, they are out to make a profit and most likely will sacrifice going the cheaper route. I'm going with the factory remans unless someone can satisfy my standard before they go into those engine beds for the lower price.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 21st, '14, 21:04

John=

When I've asked local engine dealers/builders around here about "rebuilds" or "remans" in the outboard and inboard gas context, they all had a different definition. Ask them what they're doing/replacing. If I were going to use anything except a factory reman (Cummins), it'd be someone local to me. I'd want someone local on the line for the work.

Also, the warranties sometimes cover very little labor if you have a problem. A very reputable mechanic I know told me when I was thinking about reman'd gas inboards that he'd only sell me/install mercruiser factory remans. He'd previously lost money where he sold a national reman motor to a customer that went bad, and the warranty would only cover $400 in labor to take the bad reman motor out and install another reman. He ate all the labor in excess of the $400 as a customer relations thing.

Good luck.

John

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Jan 21st, '14, 21:09

Thank you guys appreciate the information great stuff

I am not buying I own two Yanmar 315 I bought from a friend cheap and wanted to figure out their value with 230 hours with the gears shafts props and rudders etc. complete package.

I did talk to the guy selling the two on ebay to ask him his opinion about their value and he offered my 17-K for the motors sight unseen and I am sure he would mark them way up then there is the gears and all the other equipment.

I'm thinking about selling them not sure if I should keep them for mine but I like the 4BT fuel economy is great I don't need to have my hair on fire and she will do 30 knits if I want.

I was also thinking about buying another 31 and rebuilding it but I don't have time with the research stuff.

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JohnV8r · Post by **JohnV8r** » Jan 21st, '14, 21:47

@Rocky: There are so many variables that come into play once you get outside the Cummins reman program that an engine survey may end up being the only way you can protect yourself from a bad investment.

Wayne Fultz (Ironman) is one of the nicest human beings on this planet, and he got screwed by an unscrupulous guy who sold him 6BTA's that were junk. That's what makes the Cummins reman program so attractive. They're essentially new engines at '02 prices, backed worldwide by Cummins.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 21st, '14, 23:29

When I did mine, the price in 2008, put the new Yanmar 315's about $5,000 per side higher than the Cummins 270 Remans. I figured I coudl spend 10,000 some place else. After talking to guys that have the Yanmars, and I hear them crying about the price of oil and fuel filters, I will keep my Cummins.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 10:36

I am not going to repeat myself again.the 6bta reman. Are NOT reman. Brand spanking new motor with Dyno test sheet with personal signature of Dyno. Report . only the 7100 Bosch fuel injection pump is ran thru assembly line twice to buffoon the government (EPA).you will do a hell of lot better looking at a Yanmar, cummins , cat, John Deere taken apart then that damn google!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 22nd, '14, 11:18

Keith my friend, they are worthless. Ship them to NY and I will properly dispose of them for you. I could even provide you a pair of "ANTIQUE" 454 big blocks in exchange!

Wish I was in position to make you a reasonable offer ;)

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Jan 22nd, '14, 11:26

all I need is an address

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jan 22nd, '14, 11:47

Keith, I am interested in the package it's just what I have been looking foe please PM me

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 11:56

Tony what about the 3500.00 cylinder head that's wholesale.and the " Yanmar" only turbo while the entire marine diesel world uses one brand tried and proven. Around 8 grand for that piece. Pete we now have 6 STP''s but although I have confident in Beval machine shop I would never sell to any on this board how can I tell myself this will not happen again .this is the inherited design that cannot be changed the absolute height of arrogance and a first for japan .Nissan will build there diesel tundra pickup truck without Yanmar after testing they choose to go to a outside source. Cummins uses Bosch don't they! Best not to reinvent the wheel especially fuel injection or turbo's .

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 22nd, '14, 12:18

Bob,

You know the deal because your kids are in my position, college, retirement blah blah blah, even the bargain cummins remans are a $70k proposition all in. When the time comes to convert to diesel I will have to look for a deal which means keeping my options open. I'm on board with the remans but quite a few guys are doing ok with the Yanmars too. Darn I'd consider CATs or Detriots if I thought the family could live with the noise.

Sorry to derail...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 12:20

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 12:33

Pete the best value is 3116 cats with 200 hours or more. During the strike at Catapillar they outsource to France ----- total disaster however not many blocks involve and I can tell just a phone call with block identification. 300hp dirt cheap and for some one whom actually takes apart diesels and rebuilt then cat blows away everyone else built like a rock in all aspects like bronze/ ever door exhaust elbows . the problem is the starter sticks out back and the engine boxes would need alteration but with the correct props this is the way to go for real cheap diesel power. The engine was use by us gorvernment for all military application so parts are real cheap and available at 20 places on Long Island at well as at distributor on Nichols road (Penn).Go cat,

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jan 22nd, '14, 12:40

bob lico wrote:Pete the best value is 3116 cats with 200 hours or more. During the strike at Catapillar they outsource to France ----- total disaster however not many blocks involve and I can tell just a phone call with block identification. 300hp dirt cheap and for some one whom actually takes apart diesels and rebuilt then cat blows away everyone else built like a rock in all aspects like bronze/ ever door exhaust elbows . the problem is the starter sticks out back and the engine boxes would need alteration but with the correct props this is the way to go for real cheap diesel power. The engine was use by us gorvernment for all military application so parts are real cheap and available at 20 places on Long Island at well as at distributor on Nichols road (Penn).Go cat,

I thought the 3116's had a lot of problems my buddy and other 31 Cabo owners can attest to….was there a bad batch?

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jan 22nd, '14, 12:45

Maybe it was 3126's

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 13:13

Yes made in France .block bores went oval in less then 200 hours France says bore shifts, cast iron density fluctuation .when the hell did France ever make quality cast iron? Caterpillar CEO shame on you and cat had to make good on all of them around 200 to 300 known ,ruin the cat image and cat made same engine call it 3126 mechanical.however there are eight zillion military vehicles,boats,generators and thousands after strike ended of 3116 out there. Bare in mine Cat puts out about 200 lbs more torque then STP''s .there are quite a few 3126 out there at 350hp if I had a need for speed and wanted to do it with inboards at half the price of Unknown Yanmar rebuilds . Correct propellars will load those cats up at 2200 rpm in a 31' Bertram with proper bow proud running angle due to weight aft of main bulkhead.a bear in rough water just need a good glass/ paint guy to redesign engine boxes with a big pair of balls sound out of 6" exhaust.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 22nd, '14, 13:35

Bob, I don't have any direct experience with a 3116 in a 31 Bertram but from what I understand they will be very loud. Maybe someone can suggest otherwise? It's a family first boat, if it was just me fishing I wouldn't care.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jan 22nd, '14, 13:41

JimmyG wrote: I thought the 3116's had a lot of problems my buddy and other 31 Cabo owners can attest to….was there a bad batch?

My dockmate astern had a beautiful 31 Cabo -- I personally watched 3 pairs of 3116s go into the boat --- in one season. One day the Cabo left the dock and a 20' Edgewater appeared a week later. "This damn thing has a better shot at getting me to the Canyons, at least its motor won't blow up every 60 hours."

Tom

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 14:24

Yes Pete they are loud without mufflers .i would use anyway to prevent a slugged engine .like I said 3116 made in France bad news even when sleeved.when in doubt there is a raise casting mark FR but you really have to go with casting numbers or better yet go with updated cylinder heads and pistons in 3126 mechanical.just a little more money give you a up to date mechanical engine.about 17,000 per copy on the market.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 22nd, '14, 14:44

Bob, Not sure I understood. With a muffler they're not to loud? 17k for a pair?

HO Penn does installations of used motors or do you have to find your own motor and bring it to them?

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jan 22nd, '14, 15:25

bob lico wrote:Yes made in France .block bores went oval in less then 200 hours France says bore shifts, cast iron density fluctuation .when the hell did France ever make quality cast iron? Caterpillar CEO shame on you and cat had to make good on all of them around 200 to 300 known ,ruin the cat image and cat made same engine call it 3126 mechanical.however there are eight zillion military vehicles,boats,generators and thousands after strike ended of 3116 out there. Bare in mine Cat puts out about 200 lbs more torque then STP''s .there are quite a few 3126 out there at 350hp if I had a need for speed and wanted to do it with inboards at half the price of Unknown Yanmar rebuilds . Correct propellars will load those cats up at 2200 rpm in a 31' Bertram with proper bow proud running angle due to weight aft of main bulkhead.a bear in rough water just need a good glass/ paint guy to redesign engine boxes with a big pair of balls sound out of 6" exhaust.

I have room, these new Cabrera engine boxes are huge I had to move the bulkhead and fuel tank back 3-4" to get everything to fit, I even have 6" exhaust ports done. The problem is Cat as well as Cummings or any low RPM engine I would have to install 21" blades with a lot of pitch and cup , I'm a White Marlin natural bait fisherman 4.5 knot troll is not unusual and I think even with one engine in gear I would go to fast and in circles even with oversize rudders

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 15:47

Jimmy trust me absolutely 100 % positive you will troll in perfect straight course at 5 mph on 1 engine with capt Patrick rudders. 21 dia. 23 pitch 5degree rake 11/2" shaft . 3126 fit in those engine boxes you lucky devil.16,900 300hp pair of 3116 with gears complete turn key or 3126 350hp ( these babies were sold as OEM at 420hp each in numerous boats) 350hp is the entry level 3126 along with trolling valves and get together with our prop boys in Jacksonville FL. You be the King.of offshore 31 Bertram's. Should be about 21,000 complete "cash is king" with rebuilt warranty.we can troll at 3 mph with 3126 385 hp in 32' Blackfin . Only we (I ) cannot get the white marlin to hang on to circle hook. Terrible white marlin fisherman I can get them in spread with dredge and ballyhoo but they are to smart for me.hang on just enough to piss me off.

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jan 22nd, '14, 16:03

bob lico wrote:Jimmy trust me absolutely 100 % positive you will troll in perfect straight course at 5 mph on 1 engine with capt Patrick rudders. 21 dia. 23 pitch 5degree rake 11/2" shaft . 3126 fit in those engine boxes you lucky devil.16,900 300hp pair of 3116 with gears complete turn key or 3126 350hp ( these babies were sold as OEM at 420hp each in numerous boats) 350hp is the entry level 3126 along with trolling valves and get together with our prop boys in Jacksonville FL. You be the King.of offshore 31 Bertram's. Should be about 21,000 complete "cash is king" with rebuilt warranty.we can troll at 3 mph with 3126 385 hp in 32' Blackfin . Only we (I ) cannot get the white marlin to hang on to circle hook. Terrible white marlin fisherman I can get them in spread with dredge and ballyhoo but they are to smart for me.hang on just enough to piss me off.

If you want to "cheat" on Whitey you can use a spinner with a open bail and line clip gives you a automatic drop back works every time!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 16:15

I can tell you the adjustable Rupp don't work at there minumim setting with circle hook . But then again in Hudson canyon white marlin is not the targeted species they usually come into tuna spread and we leave a way back for whitey and re rig once we get word or see they are around generally come up empty handed.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 22nd, '14, 19:06

4.2 kts all day long one in gear, steers like a champ

Troll spoons for bass on one engine all day long don't go in circles, 5.5 with the dredges for whitey biggest trouble is keeping the tunas off the dink baits

The 20" diameter wheel in a four blade configuration won't crush your idle speeds, you can pull the idle down a little if your really concerned.

Good luck, I'm still voting Cummins for yah

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Jan 22nd, '14, 19:12

After comparing maintenance cost and simplicity on my 38 purchase, between a 420 3126, and 450 cummins c the cummins had it hands down. Go with a 330/370 cummuns B.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 20:51

I am not fighting the 330/370 cummins just illustrating a way out for a guy on a budget due to family obligation ( college) .caterpillar 3126 would be great as the number one power option in a boat that will be offshore in less then desirable conditions.3116 puts you into diesel power for 17,000 gears included turn key ,is it loud----- yes ,does the cockpit shake a little on take off yes, is the fuel economy the same as cummins/ Yanmar ------ no ,does the average boat have 62" engine hatches ------ no , will the 300 hp 3116 be the same Wot. speed as the Yanmar / cummins ------- yes. Are engine parts less then half Yanmar ----- yes. Will you be astounded when you put 6.5 gallons of oil in each engine ----- yes but thats why there so dependable like what we put in the. Best of the best in the world military bradly fighting vehicle,striker fighting vehicle ------- yes. 17,000 turn key is a far cry from 44,000 Yanmars STP''s no gears.just trying to crunch numbers and give alternatives.i know how to harness that 1600 lbs of torque with props but I know some people don't want to hear 23" 3 blade cut to 21" and cupped completely --------- that another story.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 22nd, '14, 21:01

Cut shaft log out of boat leave oblong gated hole slide 2" and 21/2" f/ g sleeve on shaft and put rear of gears 1/2" off bilge and change struct by rotating backward to give minumim shaft angle with 3116 or 3126 now lay up shaft log with shaft centered and struct epoxy and shimmed ..boat will handle waves at least 40% better then same boat with light weight 4cyl. Engines.without ballast.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 22nd, '14, 22:45

Bob

I hear ya, but I was at the Diesel shop one day and he was tearing down a Cat, and cursing it. He was showing me how they used mixed and matched parts from the factory. Unfortunatly I don't rmeber the model CAT but when you say the word Cat he usually yells out cal Ransome.

He rebuilt the Cats in my sisters boat as a favor to me. He really only tries to work on them if he knows the customer real well. He is not a CAT fan and considered one of the best Diesel guys around up here. He cut his teeth on DD's when he was a kid.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 23rd, '14, 08:32

Tony was that cat a rebuilt or OEM engine,as you know the cummins brand knew totally robotic factory in IL. Is considered the best in the world surpassing Mercedes .thats there key to success total world domination in sub 350 hp stock went from $90 got $131.00 .the engine is so good that even caterpillar gave them that market in the marine world. They then had to buy Perkins to have a small engine for there small earth moving equipment. Cummins is a total American success story.however no jobs created due to robotics .cummins is the only Diesel engine that puts every single reman 6bta on the Dyno for 30 minutes break in I have report if anybody wants to see one.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Jan 23rd, '14, 09:54

Well, if we're going this far into the Cummins detail sure Bob I'd like to see the report. Very curious and interested in this and thanks for sharing all your knowledge in this engine design.
For me, I'm saving for Cummins reman program(new) through Tony Athens with revised mounts and w. pump, and to be sure I've got reliable engines going into boat from the start. Not sure how complete a surveyer would be on such an expensive proposition on RTO's - seems like a gamble in my opinion.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 23rd, '14, 22:46

bob lico wrote:Tony was that cat a rebuilt or OEM engine,as you know the cummins brand knew totally robotic factory in IL. Is considered the best in the world surpassing Mercedes .thats there key to success total world domination in sub 350 hp stock went from $90 got $131.00 .the engine is so good that even caterpillar gave them that market in the marine world. They then had to buy Perkins to have a small engine for there small earth moving equipment. Cummins is a total American success story.however no jobs created due to robotics .cummins is the only Diesel engine that puts every single reman 6bta on the Dyno for 30 minutes break in I have report if anybody wants to see one.

Bob

It could have been a rebuilt, but he was the first non Cat certified diesel mechanic to work on it. I asked him who would do some thing like that and he said Cat did it. and he said it was not the first time he ran into it. He loves the old 3208's but runs from the new ones. He is a Cummins/Volvo/Yanmar dealer.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 10:21

rocky this is the Dyno. report .then a letter comes from the technician that tested the engine that assure you every pyrometer was up to specification and after testing ; break in engine oil was remove as well as coolant to flush system of any sand casting residue. use Valvoline ultra blue only.and sign his name mike ruiz. the second sheet is the new storm block specifications and 15 pages of information on the new storm block /remans .the third is the two year 2000 hour full warranty. i paid 17,000 ea. wholesale in 2006. my storm block date code is one month prior to me receiving engine rather silly calling them reman. but the EPA. would be all over you for use in new boat so paper work states for replacement only.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 10:23

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 10:28

rocky observe the fuel temp and air temp during testing at the cummins facility and compare it to what you can obtain like a air intake of 75 and fuel temp about 65 degrees F. Just a little engineering goes a long way -----------oh boy some fun now.these guys know all about air intake.you got to have fresh air!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 10:36

Installation rule no.1 put the raccors at the bottom of bilge aft. Of engine compartment. My engines show 18 hp plus on Dyno at RHS due to cool fuel and 70 degree air temp.faily easy on a 31' Bertram by taking in combustion air from cockpit funneled into air filters y way of D shape opening in fuel tank bulkhead under wings along side engine boxes.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Jan 24th, '14, 21:54

Thanks Bob how interesting this is. Wow they really ran that engine through it's paces. Would have been neat to see a snapshot of power curves from dyno. So the 5.9's revised features in aug of 1997- is that the year they released the storm block? It is very interesting that they use lbs per hour with fuel, more accurate I would assume. I see what you mean about fuel and air temp that was a warm room at 104 fuel and 86 air intake temp., could have made more power cooler. Talk'n about cooler air, this is my 6.0L chevy that tows the 31. Water to air intercooler under the roots/eaten supercharger. 500hp, 500ft lbs.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 22:36

Nice! I am building a 406" complete roller sbc for the 1971 vette.makes me feel like a kid again looking at speed parts for the first time in 20 years.a roller cam is essential in today's world with no zinc additives in oil. Quite a few changes in performance small block strokers.small bolt circle cams to clear 6" rod ends of 406" chevy. My son is active in this project and it keeps me young I put extreme high performance brakes in first along with 5 point harness.just a street car.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '14, 22:39

The need for speed