Hi.....

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 24th, '12, 15:46

Hi everyone, I am Jon the new owner of a b31 express. The boat needs a complete refit and so I will be taking this task at a slow pace. This is my first boat and might very well be the only boat I ever own. I have gone back and forth between redoing everything as an express or making it into a flybridge sf. I know there are kits from cabrerra and also hightide marine any feelings on one over the other? Currently the boat sits with 2 chrystler 330s but I am thinking/strongly dreaming about diesels, my other option would be reman merc 454s maybe. My buddy and his pop have a marina and I can leave it there and have work done on it as well as do work my self on it at my own pace. I am hoping life permits me to get her done in 12-18 months(probably 18). She deserves some new clothes and I plan on fully decking her out to the best of mine and my pockets ability. So I am open to all and any suggestions. I will keep everyone posted on my progress regularly. Besides just saying hi in this post, I think one of my biggest questions to everyone reading, Is there something you wish you had done that you didn't or became an afterthought of your refits! If any. It could be as simple as a place to rig up your gear, really anything big or small.

Thanks

Jon

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 24th, '12, 16:44

First and foremost, does the boat have the original fiberglass tank in it? If you are running gas engines and using 10% ethanol/gasoline it is only a matter of time (not long) before you will have a screwed up engine. Your options are a diesel repower or remove/replace the tank with an aluminum one. Since this is your first boat, I would suggest devoting your first season with it "learning" your boat before spending money changing things. Attack the things you don't like and safety issues first. Good luck and welcome.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 24th, '12, 17:05

welcome
where are you located

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 24th, '12, 17:28

Walter thank you. The boat has a new gas tank, I'm looking at doing a
repower with diesels just not sure which yet. I guess that's my next decision.

Charlie, hi I'm in the Hollywood Fl area

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Nov 24th, '12, 19:00

Welcome aboard JD, you wont find a better place for tips and advice on rehabbing your 31..take your time. get a good plan of attack and go at it in manageable bites...my total rehab took a bit more than 18 months...enjoy the build..I have..BH

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 24th, '12, 19:23

use the boat. Then you will know what to change.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 24th, '12, 21:12

Welcome aboard Jon.

I also happen to be one of the Express owners on this board and although my favorate model has always been the FBC I have really grown quite fond of the Express.

Good luck with your new baby......

Keep us posted and remember........we like pictures! ! !

hb

ljmauricio · Post by **ljmauricio** » Nov 25th, '12, 11:03

Hello, I'm a former boatyard owner and have done a number of restorations, both for myself and customers. I totally agree with the previous posts that suggest using it first, and then make a priority list with safety at the top of the list, mechanicals next, and then cosmetics.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Nov 25th, '12, 12:31

Jon,
Welcome to the sandbox, I also have an express cruiser 1961 hull 85. Like most everyone here I will help you with any info you need. If the boat is in running condition just use it for a while and find out what really needs to be done. Retro fitting to a FBC has been done before, if it done correctly it looks nice if not it really looks awful. I've seen boats that have been redone both ways.
What is the hull number and year of the vessel, numbers can be found under the port V berth glassed into the hull near the supports for the plywood berth or on the inside of the transom behind the steering crossbar, if it is after 1972 it should be embossed into the outer transom under the starboard rub rail.
Jon feel free to call me if you have any questions I have had my boat for 34 years and have just about redone everything on it. Cell 561-310-7179, I'm in south Stuart, Fl, the boat is at Indiantown Marina 12 miles west of my house at this time, it's still out of the water due to multiple knee operations.
Welcome aboard.
Pete Fallon

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 25th, '12, 16:25

Thanks for all the welcomes everyone. The boat is a 1962. It is far from seaworthy so...... The plan is to redo everything, I am thinking about using parts from cabrera and/or hightide Marine and build from the hull up. Hull number is 242. I purchased her from joe in lantana. Really awesome dude, thanks again joe!

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Nov 26th, '12, 00:25

Jon,
I did a quick survey for a client on nthe west coat of Florida back in April 8, 2008. Boat was built 6-7-62 hull 242, old Chryslers with direct drive trannies that hadn't been run for a long time. An old owner had put on wooden spray rails at the bow area , the starboard side was reading wet on the moisture meter on the last 18" going aft, there were some cracks on the lifting strakes on the starboard bow area and it had a heavy build-up of bottom paint. I would keep an eye on the strake cracks, have the entire bottom soda blasted by a pro, it will save you a lot of head aches in the long run. The aluminum tank was new but I was told it was only 155 gallons?, it had a added on hard top over the express wind screen and the port strut barrel was a diferent size than the starboard side, little 15"x 11pitch props, for the direct drive trannies. The boat need a lot of work and it was more than my client wanted to do. Good luck with the restoration, take your time and be prepared to spend lots of money.
Pete Fallon

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 26th, '12, 08:06

I knew I was going to have to spend some money on the project and so that part doesn't scare me. Are all the things you mentioned able to be fixed properly? Thanks for the info. I want the boat to be like new when I am done.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 26th, '12, 08:55

Jon you should have Pete come look at it and start the list.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Nov 26th, '12, 10:33

Joe is a really good guy. Did you see the 28 phoenix that he restored?
I will be keeping my boat next to his shop on the hard to finish my interior when it is done having the diesels installed.

Cabrerra is a good source for parts, just make sure you have delivery dates signed with him, he can run slow sometimes. A benefit, he is local and can install the parts for you if you need help with the installation, all the boats are different and some modification is necessary.
I have used his parts for my deck, deck support, motor boxes,interior bulkheads, fuel tank, and his live well ( which is a new design approximate 50 gallons).

Danny from high tide is where I purchased my struts for going to 1-1/2 shafts

give me a pm if you need more info

Spencer

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Nov 26th, '12, 10:39

1.5" shafts will fit through a re-bored cutlass bearing. No need for new struts.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Nov 26th, '12, 17:51

Jon,
Finally have a few minutes and can reply to some of your PM. I used Cabrera parts in my express restoration. Decks, supports, engine boxes, steps between, and cabin sole. All good stuff. If the hardtop sits on the windshield like the original did and you use Cabrera engine boxes you will need to raise the top. That's why my top is on pipes. When I converted to 1 1/2" shafts for the Cummins rather than replace or enlarge the hole in the struts for the bigger cutlasses I put the new cutlasses on a lathe and turn the outside brass down to fit. Worked well and cheaper.
As far as the conversion I would listen to the guys. Use it first. Like Harry and Pete I love the express. Had an FBC or SF come along I might have bought one but very glad I have the express. What I lose in that added height I gain in being in the cockpit for fishing and cocktail cruising. Not separated from the others. My hardtop (factory) makes it comfortable in all weather! At this point a little less exposure to the sun is a blessing. Just had the forth item removed from my flesh that was suspect, so . . . Do the engines, Cabrera stuff, wiring, etc. and wait on converting to an FBC or SF. Who knows you may end up agreeing with us. Bet you a clear on it. Since I have done most of the work on Dreamsicle myself I can help with most items from the express point of view. Some things are unique to our boats. Call, we'll talk.
You have thrown in with bad company, I'm afraid, but from the (Oh My God, ten years! How did that happen?) time I started lurking I realized that this is the best of the bad. These guys will help with anything they can, and sometimes with things they can't. But that's another story.
Since Pete has seen this unit that will be a huge up for you. Listen on the bottom suggestion, well worth the time and effort. Possibly an epoxy barrier coat too while at it. Dreamsicle is #327 - 1963, so close to sisters. In MArch she will be fifty! Wish I looked that good at that age.
Pictures! Picture! We love pictures. Both before and after.
We're here for you.

Jamie MacKenzie · Post by **Jamie MacKenzie** » Nov 26th, '12, 18:06

Welcome! I have a 1962 Express Cruiser that's been modified with a sort of mini-bridge and a half tower. Quite a few have been modified like it. Mine is still on the Listings page from 2 owners ago... On the images page you'll see a similar Express called Charisma that's pretty sweet. I second everything the gang says about starting with safety and mechanical upgrades. The previous owner of my boat had installed new engines, electronics, and a lot of other shiny jewelry. This summer we found rotted wood inside ALL the thru-hulls, non-existent cutlass bearings, de-lamination around the shaft logs and some serious misalignment of the shafts. They should have dealt with all that when they installed the new engines. Sadly, my (former) Jersey City mechanic didn't take it all apart and diagnose those things in one piece. Each time we got it back together, the boat kept leaking or vibrating and we would uncover the next issue. That got mighty expensive. Luckily, it's a labor of love...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 26th, '12, 23:22

Welcome

Like Mike said, the existing struts can be still used with 1/1/2 bearings. I bored mine out and then went with thin walled cutlass bearing. Worked fine.

Like everyone suggested, redo the shaft logs, it will save you a world of grief. Follow Pete's advice and you will be fine, broke but fine.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 27th, '12, 10:08

Pete- An old owner had put on wooden spray rails at the bow area - should I do away with that?
the starboard side was reading wet on the moisture meter on the last 18" going aft, there were some cracks on the lifting strakes on the starboard bow area and it had a heavy build-up of bottom paint.-how does one get rid of
Moisture? I would keep an eye on the strake cracks, have the entire bottom soda blasted by a pro, it will save you a lot of head aches in the long run. If I plan on repainting the whole boat should I soda blast the whole boat? Will soda blasting reveal and glass issues I might have too? You say to keep an eye on the strake cracks, is this not something that can be fixed?The aluminum tank was new but I was told it was only 155 gallons?funny I think I was told a different number, not really an issue regardless of 10 or 20 gallons each way it still is not big enough :), it had a added on hard top over the express wind screenthat hard top has to go and the port strut barrel was a diferent size than the starboard side, little 15"x 11pitch props, for the direct drive trannies. The boat need a lot of work and it was more than my client wanted to do. Good luck with the restoration, take your time and be prepared to spend lots of money.

I inserted my questions as to not miss anything hope no one minds. As far as the different size strut barrel what exactly does that effect/do? Not to sound ignorant but as far as that topic goes I am I knowledgeable.

As far as all the helpful comments from everyone thank you. As far as using the boat for a little bit to see what I want to change well I think that is way out of the question. The boat needs a lot of work and I only want to do the project once.

I saw the charisma that along with all the boats on here are sexy. Are there any other pictures of Chrisma?

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Nov 28th, '12, 04:36

Jon,
The Charmisa is or was owned by Stanton Terranova from Rhode Island, he used to keep her at Jupiter Inlet Marina, I haven't seen it there for the past 3 years. He also was a friend of Eddie Murray's( Finest Kind a 1963 Express) and a lot of Ed's and Stantons ideas were incorporated into each boat. They were both redone around the same time period in the late 80's and early 90's.
On the spray rails on your boat I would make sure that the wood around the attachment bolts or screws are still solid, probe with an awl or other sharp object for any signs of rot or have someone check with a moisture meter. If the spray rails are still wet I would have them removed I feel that the rub rails are unnessarray. Soda blasting is used on the bottom paint, I have never heard or seen anyone using it on the hull sides, don't forget to add the cost of barrier coating along with bottom painting. If your going to repaint the entire boat, use someone who knows what he's doing, darker colors show every little spot that hasn't been prepped correctly, I would stick with a light color such as white, sea foam green, fighting lady yellow or ice blue.
The cracks on the lifting strakes should be ground out and repaired to prevent water intrusion into the bottom laminate schedule, they can and should be fixed, just make sure the person that is doing the repairs knows that the hull is polyester material and where the crack is located is subject to a lot of external water pressure forces.
The aluminum fuel tank size depends on how far you are going and the size of the new engines. If your going to be running to the canyons I suggest you get the largest tank that will fit under your deck. If your only using the boat for day trips a 172 or 233 tank is sufficent, you don't need to be carrying around extra fuel weight if your only using only 20 to 30 gallons per trip near shore. You can also add extra tankage under the salon sole or in saddle tanks in the cockpit sides.
As for the hard top it was not factory installed and looks sort of homemade. The strut barrel size should be the same on both sides to allow for enough room if your going to bore out the strut barrels for larger shafts, if I remember correctly there was an original strut for the 1-1/4" shafts on the starboard side and a larger one on the port that looked like it could have enough meat to be bored out for 1-1/2'' shafts.
Be prepared to spent a minium of 250K for what you are planning to undertake with this boat, I have surveyed over 30 of the 31's and did cost analysis on 3 that were close to 300K from the original purchase price of the low 30K at the start. I have owned mine for 34 years and have spent close to 140K and that was with 50% discounts on parts, special Merc program gas engine and tranny prices, in house labor and materials from when I was building boats and highly reduced re-gel coating on the hull and bottom and a lot of free parts from suppliers. If I had not been in the marine business I would be over 250K on my boat. I don't what to rain on you plans but be prepared to spent twice as much as you think your going to, keep record and take a lot of pictures.
Pete Fallon

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 28th, '12, 08:24

Welcome aboard!

I have a 62 Express as well...along with 440's (330hp) and she had the 1:1 direct drive trannies with egg beater props too.

Two improvements I really feel were best...swapping out the direct drive trannies and replacing with 1:1.56 and adding a short tower.
1:1 was okay, but if anything in drive train was out a "hair" boat vibrated...that being my pet peeve, it drove me insane. Swapping them out reduced the need for absolute perfection plus gave slightly better performance and economy.

Short Tower added visibility... The Lower helm is great for many things, but in slop you can't see into wave troughs...In my area, NYC Harbor/ Raritan Bay we have lots of low laying debris, I was good for one knock a year. A little piece of wood hitting those egg beaters sent me into the water to change a wheel or shaft or a quick haul if water temp was cold. In Florida...I don't think you'll need tower for debris...but when fishing, a couple feet higher you can see weed lines, bait fish and life much better.

Biggest regret...first year I got her I was offered a fantastic deal on a pair of Yanmars at the boat show. Dealer wanted to install his New to the area Yanmars into a 31 Bertram and made me an incredible deal. I should have jumped at the opportunity...but I had cash for fuel at less then 2 bucks a gallon. The little 4 bangers would have cut the consumption a good deal...but only offered slightly better speed. High revving diesel had a real bad rap at the time and didn't want to borrow money for boat improvements.

Nice thing about the Express- you are right there in the cockpit. Fishing short handed is a snap, one step down to crank in or let out a line. Docking, step from dock to motor box and your at helm. Making a Howdy Trip, your in the midst of the party. Bad weather, your enclosed and protected from elements. Good weather, open helm windows. Forget something in cabin, go grab it.

I don't know your budget, but diesels on new beds, full paint job, new interior and deck with all old wood removed, sound insulation, new Glass and Frames sounds great. It would break my bank and I could not do in your time period.

For me it has been make her safe and sound, keep motors well maintained and do slight improvements as I went along with a substantial project in the off season. I bought my boat to use...not work on. But I bought a usable boat to begin with.

440's are good motors...I have had my boat for 17 years, prior owner had for 12 years and installed the 440's new when he bought. One overhaul was done 21 years ago...I pulled heads off a few years ago when I had ethanol issues and motors were in great shape...other then goo and a couple tuliped valves. Down side parts are getting hard to find and while economy is good before the 4 barrel kicks in...once it does you better be near a fuel dock.
Good motors, but obsolete...

again, welcome and good luck!

Carl

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 28th, '12, 10:14

Jon,

Welcome aboard! You didn't mention if you are a hardcore fisherman, a cruiser or a bit of both. I've only been around a few years and I can say the best thing about buying a 31 is the group of guys on this site. A couple of guys already offered their number and the opportunity to chat, don't hesitate and take good notes.

Good luck!

Pete

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 28th, '12, 10:20

Hi Pete P.

Thanks I have noticed this is a wet welcoming community. The boat will not be goin a cruising with out any line trailing. I plan to go to the Bahamas once a month probably and try and take it out fishing once a week, twice a week when I first get it in the water I imagine. But that's a far way away for me, luckily I'm a big picture guy so we others see obstacles and darkness I skip right over those and see light and a finish line.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 28th, '12, 12:34

Jon,

Big picture items I'd like to have in my cockpit for fishing.

Remove side and rear panels so you have a toe kick, add Capt Pats livewell to the transom and move the exhaust outboard so you can have large in deck fish boxes/storage.

I copied a couple of the other guys and added a small fighting chair with a rocket launcher, store my tackle on the seat, hang buckets off each arm one for garbage and the other for salted lures that need cleaning before being stored. Leader spools and plier holders suction cupped to the launcher and a cooler under the seat. I cannot see my sounder while I'm standing in the cockpit, that is very annoying. Likely a compromise spot on the express that you can see from helm and pit.

If your fishing style involves casting I'd suggest trying to keep the rear legs of your tower or hard top as far forward as possible and any rod holders mounted to it as vertical as you can.

The smart guys can chime in on the important stuff like glass and metal.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Nov 28th, '12, 13:00

I can't resist.....twin outboards on a bracket!!! You'll save enough money on gas to pay for the re-fit!

I'm going to regret this post...

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 28th, '12, 13:10

While im at it I can make it a center console(no offense to the guy go made his a center console I think it was neat) never gonna happen.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Nov 28th, '12, 13:40

Well, it was worth a suggestion. You responded before the jackels could get organized for the attack!! I think the express would make a very nice conversion to outboards. Depends on what you want to do with the boat.

I'm engaged in a CC conversion of a 25, including a single outboard on a bracket. Lots of fun, but I'll never do it again. The lesson beaten into my head is that if you have the money to do a thorough refit, you have the money to buy a boat that is already completed. There is no savings to be had unless you do everything yourself and stick to the stock, OEM configuration (which I did not...not even close). Time is the dependent variable...given enough time, you can do anything cheaper by yourself. 12 to 18 months is a tight window unless you can work on it full time, or pay someone to work on it full time for you. I'm using a blended approach - shop time/my time. After stripping/gutting/ and rough construction, I'm now focused on the pieces I can build in my shop - center console, helm seat, coaming covers, check writing, etc, while the boat shop completes most of the heavier work as cash flow allows.

3.5 years into it and we are just now putting the deck in!

It's a labor of love/insanity! Good luck with your project!

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 28th, '12, 15:39

I can't resist.....twin outboards on a bracket!!! You'll save enough money on gas to pay for the re-fit!

I'm going to regret this post...

cam you could be banned for life for that answer, lol

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Nov 28th, '12, 16:14

I hear ya! 25 foot boat and an outboard! 2 strikes against me and I'm pushing my luck! At least I didn't mention "single w/ IPS"!!

If I win the lottery tonight, I will team up with Capt. Bone and build one (maybe two) kick ass B31 outboard boats. Let me clarify....I will COMMISSION the building of 2 kick ass B31s with outboards. My hands (and hair) will not be fouled with epoxy!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 28th, '12, 16:18

Cam,

Take your own advice 310k already ruined, I mean refit. FWIW I do like Bones 25, maybe he'll give me a ride some day!

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... id=2465738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Nov 28th, '12, 16:25

That's a nice one, but I wouldn't do it to a flybridge model. $310k seems a bit high... by a factor of 2. But you can't get it if you don't ask for it!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 28th, '12, 17:10

I'm thinking he can ask till the cows come home...

Reason three for not putting outboards on a 31FBC...when you finally figure out it was a big mistake...nobody with half a mind is gonna buy it from you for anything close to what it cost ya.

Reconfigure boat to a CC...sure.

Goober · Post by **Goober** » Nov 29th, '12, 08:15

mike ohlstein wrote:1.5" shafts will fit through a re-bored cutlass bearing. No need for new struts.

. Bore the bearing or the strut

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 29th, '12, 08:47

Goober wrote:

If like mine, 62 Express with 1:1, the Egg Beater design, that original strut design with diesels is not gonna fly quite so EZ.

The egg beater design runs 15" wheels and has shaft at a reduced angle. Not much room to swing a bigger wheel plus original struts utilize thin wall cutless bearings, OD of bearing is 1-1/2" with little meat on strut to open. It "may" be possible to open strut bore a tad, then have Custom Thordon Bearings made that do not require a shell. ....but then you have the wheel issue to deal with. I'm running 17" wheels and I know I am way... and I mean way to close to hull with that setup. 17" wheel won't give the performance you want to get with diesel...big slow turning wheels that bite.

Gonna sink money into boat...plan to put new struts go on the list. Unless it is a different setup then my 62 Express.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 29th, '12, 11:27

So I am sure this topic comes up a lot. What is my cheapest option for diesels that will not sacrifice fuel eco, speed, and comfort? Is the general consensus that gassers are "VERY UNSAFE"? My buddy told me he could get me really good deal on merc repower engine with the warranty obviously that would be gas. Opinions are all welcomed lets keep in mind everyone is entitled to thier's :)

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 29th, '12, 11:35

I have the yanmar lp6. they are great. Some of the Faithful have the Yanmar 4 bangers 240 I think and the are great also.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 29th, '12, 16:42

most people have yanmars or cummins
iam running yanmars 230 lha ste

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 29th, '12, 16:52

Gas being "Very Unsafe".
With proper precautions gas is not a problem.
Start going beyond your range and carrying extra fuel in jugs or bladders then transferring...your dabbling with trouble.
Decide not to stick your nose into the bilge before cranking engines or after a fuel stop...your dabbling in dangerous territory.

Gas or diesel is a personal choice.
Depends what you want and how you use your boat. Trips to Bahamas I think you mentioned?? If thats the case, I'd be looking at diesel for increased range and speed.
But if your trips were limited to fishing 5 minutes from the home dock and an occasional trip for dinner the extra cost of diesel won't pay off.
My opinion anyway.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 29th, '12, 18:00

I have decided on diesels. I have come to the realization that once the boat is stripped I can't rebuild it until i know where everything is going. So now it's just what's my best option. I am doing some reading online and find the best deal. Is there a good time of year to buy a set of engines, I know outdoor paint is always the best deals durning the 4th of July and Memorial Day.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 29th, '12, 18:52

250 cummins or 315 yanmar are the popular choices

The 210 cummins is an option but the saving doesn't seem to be great. I don't think the 230/240 yanmar is available anymore but Check a creditable source.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 29th, '12, 23:11

Is Styer more expensive then yanmars?

I have alway loved the Styer aug (A3)

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 29th, '12, 23:14

Price wise you can not beat the reman cummins. I put the 270 in mine. Turns it into a different boat. I can easily cruise at close to the sweet spot which is around 24 knots. She is really riding were she was designed to be. Anything at 24 knots or above and the ride just improves drastically.

There is a point that they do get squirlly but if you keep the HP to 330 HP or under per engine you should be good.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 29th, '12, 23:16

Good to know.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Nov 30th, '12, 01:52

Jon,
Send me your complete e-mail address and I will send you the pictures i took when I surveyed the boat in 2008. Like Sim said the struts have to have enough meat on the barrels to rebore and if I remember correctly there wasn't enough to rebore yours on one side. Some of the early 31's had a set of intermediate struts just aft of the shaft log exit. They were put in to do away with shaft whipping on the longer low profile struts only 10" from the bottom of the boat to the middle of the shaft barrel with 1-1/4" shafts, they were breaking shafts due to the whip effect, they went to 1-3/8" shafts in 1963-4. I had direct drives when I got the boat and ran 16"x11 pitch props with them for 18 years until I repowered, I had new struts cast at Buck Algonquin with larger barrels when I repowered with Merc 454 throttle body fuel injection and 1:5:1 8 degree down angle Hurth gears in 1997, now running 17" x18 pitch heavy cup, 3 bladed props and the boat is very fast 41.8 mph on the GPS at 4400 RPMs run and troll all day and only burn less than 50 gallons for a 60 mile run. The Steyr engines are very nice but very costly, the 240 Yanmars are I feel the best engines for a 31' Bertram gives you top end just under 30 mph and cruise in the mid 20's and fuel burn is very good. Dug Stowe has them and Mike O also.
Keep asking questions and you will get good advice from the members of this board some might be a little scarcastic but all with good intentions. Putting outboard on a 31' Bertram is just plain waste of money and never get a good resale. Like putting lipstick on a pig it might look pretty but it's still a pig.
Pete Fallon

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 30th, '12, 06:48

If interested in Steyrs, dad put a pair of 236's in his 28 Hatteras to replace the aging 440's...a little smaller boat, but much heavier and wider then our 31's.
He loves much about the motors...light, powerful, quiet, and economical. Being high reving and so light they drop right into the 440 beds and pretty much good to go...
Down side, service, support and parts...asking price is high too...but what I hate, have a problem and you can be out of business for a while till parts are brought in...need service...good luck. Anyway if interested, I can give you his contact info and I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you about them...or go see them he's in Port St Lucie.
Me, unless it was the deal of the century I'd go with a brand that has better support, service and has parts readily available...at a price that won't break the bank. Also resale...nice to be able to sell boat without taking a hit because motors are not considered standard fare.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 30th, '12, 09:49

Cummins 6bt's- any size. Heavier (better ride), more torque, and can be serviced easier, can be gotten cheaper and worth every penny.

JDaniels954 · Post by **JDaniels954** » Nov 30th, '12, 10:09

Pete, my email is jondaniels@me.com

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 30th, '12, 12:38

Jon,

Did some poking around, and while the 230/240 yanmar isn't available in the US any longer Tony Athens has or had a pair that's been sitting on the shelf for a few years. They are priced higher then the 250/270 cummins remans. I think the benefit of the smaller yanmar is they drop right in without major changes so there could be a cost savings on the install. Maybe the guys that went that route could elaborate. The boat benefits from some weight so the heavier cummins is not a disadvantage at least I'm told.

I'm still a diesel dreamer, the 454s cruise around 19kts, economy falls off the cliff at 24 knots but the boat runs great at that speed as Tony said. Those cummins get you to a 24kt cruise. That higher speed is great for crossing the bay or when you get those glass days in the ocean, out in the ocean when it's not so perfect a slower cruise is more typical. So if your going to be close to an inlet and running in less then ideal conditions the higher cruise speed may not be the priority.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 30th, '12, 18:08

peter whats he asking for the 230s

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 30th, '12, 18:52

They are listed on the boat diesel classifieds. I think it was 50k for bobtails