Trolling combos

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '12, 13:42

Mostly gonna be doing the nearshore stuff Mahis, football size bluefin within my gas powered range. Ocassional shots at bigger fish and someday canyon fishing after a repower, 5 or 6 seasons away minimum. You all know the fishery better then I do.

Right now I'm weighing my options on a straight mono set up vs the new small braid ready reels with a top shot of mono. Was hoping to solicit your opinions on this topic. Specifically related to trolling.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » May 18th, '12, 14:08

You'll probably get all sorts of more valid choices from the REAL offshore guys, but as a Captain with a crew of guests or charter people, I found Mono the most forgiving of them all. I also liked using matched differently colored mono on my 30''s, 50's and 80's so I could clearly see where each line was and how it was running. It became even more important to me when playing a fish and getting other lines out of the way.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » May 18th, '12, 14:51

Just mono. Run greenmachines and cut them so they are no longer than a dollar bill or run the small ones. Maybe some Rattle Jets, Maybe rigged with a hoo. Also a couple of chains of green machines fot White Marlin.

Joef · Post by **Joef** » May 18th, '12, 14:55

Hey pete:

We used to use heavy(ish) stuff like Penn 50TWs for offshore trolling and then inshore lighter stuff like the Penn 15KG (small lverdrag graphite reels).

A few years ago i got a pair of those Penn 16 VSx reels. We loaded them with 80lb braid and i put 100 yards of topshot 60Lb mono. We've used them for trolling inshore footballs, offshore yellowfins and then at night we use them for chunking yellowfins. in the midsummer chunk bite for the bluefins, we've gotten bluefins in the 150lb range and have had no issues at all...A lot of sharter guys are using them for everything. They're nice that they are really 4/0 size reels but have the guts of the old penn 50/80s. If i was starting form scratch, i think i'd go that way...1 set of those...and use them for everything.

J

captbone · Post by **captbone** » May 18th, '12, 15:05

I found these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Penn-Intern ... 475wt_1037

I use Penn 9/0s but may pickup two of these Penn16VSX because it is not too bad.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '12, 15:06

A few schools of thoughts already...

More specifically I was thinking.

TLD25s with 30 lb mono for near shore trolling and address the big stuff when I get their.

OR

VSX 16s (Avet or Shimano equivalent) spooled with braid and a top shot of mono and be covered for the big stuff too.

Doesn't seem to make sense to buy 50s or 80s given my current range. Brew I'll be sure to hit you up on more specifics when I get their..

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '12, 15:34

Brew,

Since you are one of the experts can you explain why you like straight mono and why you wouldn't use braid?

Pete

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 18th, '12, 15:43

I would pass on the Tld25s as I've blown 2 of them up. I love my Tiagra 16s I have them loaded with 80lb braid and 100 yards of 60lb mono top shot. My favorite chunking rods by far. I agree with Brew - stick with mono. It is much more forgiving. Leave the braid for three waying inshore. Yes, I did say I have braid on my 16 Tiagras but I only use them for chunking and only in the canyons. The braid is only for line capacity as I am fishing 24lbs of drag on these reels-they are blueprinted to fish like an 80. Also, I have a couple of 950ss with 30lb mono which I cast to school tuna.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '12, 15:45

So Tom you wouldn't use the 16s with topshots for trolling?

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 18th, '12, 16:23

Probably not. I love them for chunking as they are so light compared to a 50 or 80. When I trolled it was usually curved butt 80 wides with 100lb mono in the canyons. Inshore it was 30s and 50s loaded with 50 and 60lb mono.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » May 18th, '12, 16:56

i know where 3 80s are for $275 a piece, drags just re done. i know to big for now

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » May 18th, '12, 17:26

Pete, if you want you can put dacron in the back and top shot of mono. Braid is not good in my way of thinking for tuna or offshore. Maybe for tile fishing offshore but thats it.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '12, 17:44

Charlie, I don't mind collecting deals along the way. Are they yours? Shoot me a pm with info vsw or older?

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 18th, '12, 17:54

Brew -you sure don't want to take a wrap with it either! I cheat and use it just on the 16s and fish them like lightweight 80s. For trolling I like the forgiveness in mono for sure!

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » May 18th, '12, 20:12

It will cut you like a knife

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 19th, '12, 06:09

captbone wrote:I found these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Penn-Intern ... 475wt_1037

I use Penn 9/0s but may pickup two of these Penn16VSX because it is not too bad.

That is some deal...

Diego · Post by **Diego** » May 19th, '12, 08:48

Hey Peter, In my opinion if your looking for a good all around Mahi and tuna rig that you can someday change into something else, i would probably go with the Shimano Talica II, probably in a 16 or 20 size. This are a two speed reel and are very small in size and weight. And they pack a punch. You can get up to 40 -45 pounds of drag if needed and get 500 yards of mono or 800 yards of Braid (more than enough). Once you get your cannon gear, you can convert this to good chunking or live baiting rigs, they also work pretty well for jigging in the smaller sizes. I have 3 of these reels and use them for everything, caught everything from 2 pound snapper on a jig to wahoo, pacific sails and big tuna.

Hope it helps.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 19th, '12, 10:31

Pete, for inshore you will not see me put out anything bigger then a 50. I much prefer 30's packed with mono.

The exceptions are when bluefin of any size are in...but that is rare in my neck of the woods.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » May 19th, '12, 12:00

Reality: There is tackle you don't want your guests to use. YOU will rarely use trolling equipment because you're running the boat. Chunking, chumming, bottom fishing is where you will actually have that "perfect combo" in your hands, but the minute you put it down, someone will lay it down on a hard surface, or hit it with a diamond jig coming over the side. Then when "helping you" wash the boat down, they'll take a few rods off the boat clumped together so they can ding each other. It's basically hopeless unless you have the kind of crews Brewster gets. A family fishing trip (and/or with guests) is supposed to be fun so I have finally come to the conclusion that there is "Boat tackle" and "My Tackle" and my tackle is not left on board and is only bought when I know there is a chance I may use it. The other stuff is good stuff but not the kind that will make me crazy watching someone use it who really doesn't understand what he's really doing besides cranking the reel.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » May 19th, '12, 14:19

Walter K wrote:Reality: There is tackle you don't want your guests to use. YOU will rarely use trolling equipment because you're running the boat. Chunking, chumming, bottom fishing is where you will actually have that "perfect combo" in your hands, but the minute you put it down, someone will lay it down on a hard surface, or hit it with a diamond jig coming over the side. Then when "helping you" wash the boat down, they'll take a few rods off the boat clumped together so they can ding each other. It's basically hopeless unless you have the kind of crews Brewster gets. A family fishing trip (and/or with guests) is supposed to be fun so I have finally come to the conclusion that there is "Boat tackle" and "My Tackle" and my tackle is not left on board and is only bought when I know there is a chance I may use it. The other stuff is good stuff but not the kind that will make me crazy watching someone use it who really doesn't understand what he's really doing besides cranking the reel.

Walter- my dad resolved this years ago. As we are returning to the slip he tells all guests quite clearly that he has a system, and any help they offer will simply make his, and my, job harder. Therefore all are instructed that if they really want to help then they should just get the hell off the boat when we get back.
The one chore they are allowed to help with is carrying trash from the dock to the trash cans.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 21st, '12, 08:20

I've never much worried about my gear onboard. I subscribe to the concept that when I buy good stuff it's so it can take a beating and still work without flaws. Scratches and dings happen, idiots never get a second invite.

If I buy Tiagras or Internationals over TLDs it will because they'll take the beating not because I'm worried about scratches.

I may buy VSX16s, Tiagra 16s or AvetEX30s and spool with 30lb mono with the option to back with braid down the road. Tom I was hoping to save some bucks and buy TLDs but I'm shying away now.

Pete

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 21st, '12, 10:58

For me...unless I get a deal and a half (and they do come up) I'll stick with Bass and Bluefish Trolling Gear for the little guys and save up my pennies for the tackle that the Bass and Blue sticks just won't work on.

I don't mind lil scratches and dings, but see what happens when someone props a pole up against the gunnel only to have it fall down on the handle bending it ever so slightly that is scraps on every crank. Not that I would know :(

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » May 21st, '12, 12:10

Straight tiagra 16's may not have the same max drag in the corner as the vsx's of the same size. The VSX was designed to fish today's high power small diameter super braids while the tiagra is not, the talicaII is. Both are great reels I think there is more flexibility allowed with the vsx and if that eBay price is right its a steel. I paid a little less than that for ours through the pro plan back when it was worth something

For what it's worth our go to everything boat rod is the 16 vsx strapped to a 6'6" XH Shimano Terez. I backed with 600 yds of 60 spectra (same diameter as 16 mono) and top shot with 50lb momoi for 200 yards, that big top shot is usually never gone unless you hook a good one or are fishin wwb.

More line than a straight 50 better drag capacity

I fish these rods with stretches for bass, dink baits for white marlin, trolling artificials for tuna, they are the designated chunking/jiggin rods, have caught threshers on them and I've even put 30 ounces of lead on them and caught
tilefish.

To date they have been the best all around boat rod I've ever used

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 21st, '12, 12:38

JP,

Great info thanks. No problems getting the rods out of the holders with foam rear grips?

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 21st, '12, 13:16

JP:

You fish 40lbs of drag with 60lb line? I find the Tiagra to be more than sufficient. Only Shimano I own, have more Penns than I can count -- something about the smoothness of the Shimano drag that I fell in love with.

Tom

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » May 21st, '12, 14:43

Tom

I don't see where I said I fish 40lbs of drag with 60lb line. But yes I have the option with these set ups to get close to 40lbs in the corner and 15-18lbs at strike. We only do this when bluefin fishing with the 25ft 130lb wind on attached

My discovery has been that the 16 vsx reels are more flexible than a purpose built 16lb class Tiagra. More drag flexibility means I can do more things with the reel. Your mileage may vary, as I said both are excellent reels.

Maybe to put in more perspective the drag cam on the vsx is closer to the Shimano Torsa and Talica lines which were made for super braids, they are more expensive than the Penn product though.

Peter

The harder hypalon type foam hasn't been an issue, typically not a pile of drag on these at the bite anyway. I fish around 8lbs as pretty standard for tunas and there have been no issues getting them out of any of the holders after removal the drag goes where ever its needed

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » May 21st, '12, 14:51

JP -- I'm not judging -- I'm impressed!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 21st, '12, 15:20

With the Talica II you've got to go up to the 20 before you get the lugs for a harness. The Talica 16 also has a slightly higher gear ratio, not sure either is a big deal.

I bought 2 of the MH terez rods with small Avets and while I've only caught bass on them so far I'm very impressed. One thing I'm considering is the Avet EX model with heavier terez. One concern was lack of slick or aluminum butt.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 5th, '12, 10:19

Shimano just redid all the drag systems on the tiagra reels with increased drag for braided line. Didn't talk to anyone about it just looking at the updated specs on their website.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jun 5th, '12, 12:00

Peter:

My 16s were prototypes that I was invited to purchase/test -- they came out of the box blueprinted to run 80lb braid with free spool available even with 28lbs of drag at strike.

I love them.

Tom

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 5th, '12, 12:52

I started to compare more closely:

Avet EX 30/2 drag 35/40 weight 47oz Braid 750/80
Penn 16VSX Drag 30/42 weight 41oz. Braid 700/80
Tiagra 16 drag 22/30 weight 38oz Braid 520/80

It's apparent that the Tiagra 16 isn't really the right reel to compare to the others. Although I've always loved the feel of those reels.

Talica25II drag 30/45 weight 33oz Braid 730/80

They are priced accordingly Avet $430, Penn $500, Talica $620

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Trolling combos

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