Fire Island History

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 09:01

Bob you may especially appreciate this.

Last night I met a guy in his mid 70s who's family has been spending summers at Oak Beach since before he was born. It was my first time meeting him so I could only grill him so much.

As far as the inlet goes the old jetty that's covered up on democrat point was put in in 1938, at that point it was supposed to stop the western movement of the inlet. I have a chart hanging on the wall in my living room dated 1969 that shows that jetty as the eastern sea wall of the inlet. He thought it started to fill in well before that but wasn't exactly sure when.

For those not familiar the inlet is about a mile west of that now. The remaining part of the western sea wall, the sore thumb, is now inside the inlet.

Also talked a bit about Muncee Island which at one time was located north east of oak island and was the home to a large hotel that was accessible by ferry from the Babylon town dock. The island was eventually used to fill in the rest of ocean pkwy and no longer exists.

There was also an island that was home to what I think he said was the way way out club. Over by snake hill channel, not sure if it's the sand island or the one just NE of captree. It was a hotel in the summer and a hunting club in the fall and winter.

Way back when the Fire island light house was built it was feet east of the inlet, 3 miles from the earlier mentioned jetty. Sexton island was on the backside of the inlet. Everything west was ocean front. Captree island and captree state park were one until the state channel and drawbridge were put in and the island was split down the middle.

If anyone has more info about this stuff I'd love to get lunch and hear more about it. Or correct me where my facts are off.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 09:21

Did a little more reading to get what seem to be facts.

The inlet broke through in 1683, the lighthouse was built in 1858. The inlet is now 6 miles west of that.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 09:25

This map says the jetty was built in 1950, also it's unknown how old this is as much of the current western movement is not shown

My best guess is fire island extends to about where the N on the compass is today.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 09:48

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 10:48

Very cool map. Have to see if I can order a print from the library of congress.

http://memory.loc.gov/gmd/gmd380/g3804/ ... 003630.jp2

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Dec 14th, '11, 15:41

Great history! Thanks for sharing. It is pretty cool to see the old ferries from Babylon Village dock used to cut through Snake Hill channel to get to Fire Island.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 14th, '11, 16:44

fantastic you know i love that fire island history . never knew the inlet was formed in 1683. my self as a child , my children and now my grandchildren love that place and thank our forefathers that kept the greedy politician/builders from ever setting foot on the island . we be looking at Collins ave in Miami with wall to wall condo`s.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 16:59

captbone wrote:Great history! Thanks for sharing. It is pretty cool to see the old ferries from Babylon Village dock used to cut through Snake Hill channel to get to Fire Island.

That's steamboat not snake hill. Notice how captree was one big island before they cut in the state channel and draw bridge.

Also on the bigger map in the link you can see the inlet between FI and jones, that is very cool. Supposedly it already started to fill in and Robert Moses sucked munsee island so nothing to fill it in. It was one of the other islands behind oak

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 14th, '11, 17:10

Bob,

I don't think I have a high opinion of R Moses could have changed things but not sure it could have been worse.

He also erected the projects in east Harlem, once the home owed by my GG grand parents. Eminent domain and they went from owning a 4 story building with marble stair cases to renting in the bronx almost overnight. You can see why I don't love RM.

Those office buildings by your daughters boat was the original location of RMs house. It was moved its the first house on that block. Also a big bronze statue of him outside village hall.

On the other hand my great uncles owned and ran a charter boat out of sheapshead bay, yes they wore suits while they fished per WWII. After the war along with my grandfather they'd happily drive out to captree on the roads RM built to go fishing. And always spoke happily about it after he took there homes.

Maybe they didn't see it that way so I try to stay neutral.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 14th, '11, 17:51

He was NOT a nice man. What he did was monumental with not one iota of concern about who he hurt along the way. I, like you don't know what to think of him, just like I don't know what to think of Carl Fischer who did Miami Beach with not one environmental concern. If it were not for the Depression, his plans for Montauk were pretty much the same.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 14th, '11, 19:53

i wonder how he pull off the southern state parkway.northern state , etc with the purposely built stone overpass bridges that only a car can go under then landscape both sides of road the hide houses . i use the parkways all the time beautiful but he sure did screw truckers and commerce. made enemies and friends . robert moses bridge ends in a parking lot on fire island no roads, no lights,no side walks, no bathrooms , no police in most communities, mainly boaters and those who can afford the ferry boat ,keeps the riff raft off the island.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Dec 14th, '11, 20:53

Lots of old maps and charts are available from NOAA on line.

Start here:

http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/historicals/search

I found navigating the site to be a little frustrating and clunky, and a few links seemed to go to incorrect places. But if you spend some time poking about you can usually find interesting charts.

Peter

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 15th, '11, 09:53

Thanks for the link will check it put when I have some time to kill.

Figuring out how to order a print from the library of congress is a mess.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Dec 16th, '11, 08:26

bob lico wrote: we be looking at Collins ave in Miami with wall to wall condo`s.

Bob.... you say that but I know how much you love southeast Florida !!
:-D

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 17th, '11, 17:46

yep and you would be the first person i would contact!

Bruce Sweet · Post by **Bruce Sweet** » Dec 27th, '11, 18:15

Pete, My wife's great-uncle lived across from Captree for years in a small house on the marsh. His name was joe forbes. you could talk to skip gardner with the village of babylon about the local history-his family goes way back. talk to the clock family in islip about some of the stuff around captree. the club was the way way yonda. my dad used to haul one of our boats at floyd weistat's railway on the state boat channel in the late 50's and early 60's, it is long gone now. you could call my brother rob, he lives on the little road going into charlie smith's babylon marine. stop and see john gotsch at babylon fishing station. John grew up on the bay and has plenty of stories. my best friends dad built that in the 50's. tell them all i said hello

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 27th, '11, 23:22

plenty of pictures at host dry cleaners in sayville . last stop on railroad was sayville. people from the city would come out to sayville in the late 1920`s because of the speakeasies. the ships from europe would off load the booze on fire island and the sayville built rumrunner boats would out run the coast guard during the night . beach clubs,opera house and ice boating on bay and the elegant victorian homes were built along with trolly from train to bay . fire island booze help a lot of local people get thru the great depression.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 28th, '11, 10:16

Same with "Gin Beach" in Montauk.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 28th, '11, 15:31

What really amazes me looking at these old maps is how significantly things have changed over time especially looking at that map from 1873. and thinking how different it was 300 or 400 years ago

Now in the past 50 years we've done everything we can to keep it exactly the same.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 28th, '11, 15:46

peter could you imagine using the lighthouse today to navigate the inlet at night!!. like a long way off course smack onto the beach, like those photo`s of fire island disasters of ship grounding at the maritime museum in west sayville .

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 28th, '11, 16:40

No can you imagine someone new to the area. Why the heck is there a light house in the middle of the island?

Then they pull up their GPS chart and the inlet isn't clearly marked just says SPOILS AREA.

saburke17 · Post by **saburke17** » Feb 3rd, '22, 19:03

Anyone know of any 31's that were in Fire Island? I just removed my Teak transom and the name is still there. I cant really make it out yet but the port says Fire Island. Hull was white

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 4th, '22, 15:56

yes i do know of one 31 on Fire Island . i was passing by fire island pines and he was coming out the entrance of the pines going into the bay. i circle around and caught up with him and introduce myself .his FBC is docked on the east side of the pines entrance canal about 1/2 mile down.he would not identify himself the Pines is probably the most private community on the east coast ralph Lauren has the first house and then mel brooks and on and on so i can't dock there to get in a Bertram discussion although years ago i was at the bar with Farah Forcit another time Ann bacroft i walk there from Barret beach .A family beach on Fire Island .

saburke17 · Post by **saburke17** » Feb 4th, '22, 17:35

Bob did you take Farrah Fawcett for ride??

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 5th, '22, 08:50

very friendly in a non professional status , everybody at the fire island pines is incognito you have no idea who you are talking to no children . no tourist whatsoever, no public bathrooms or any other facilities on purpose, no addresses on homes only a name. people refer to the "mainland" and you think they were in Bora Bora actually Sayville , long island is 4 miles directly across the bay but through of as another country-----weird

HydroRacer · Post by **HydroRacer** » Feb 10th, '22, 12:57

A great book on robert moses is " The Power Broker " . Yes peter , he was not a nice guy . The reason he made the bridges on the parkways so low is that " people of color " could not take the buses out from the city to use "his " parks & beaches . He even blacklisted his own brother who was a civil engineer & he died penniless . The funny thing about moses was that he never had a drivers licence !
Bob , i've heard about t"The Pines " on Fire Island . That's an old school homosexual beach that a lot of gays & celebrities would flock to from around the country . Supposedly a lot of locals go there to party . There is also a more gritty gay beach to the west called " Cherry Grove "

bertram31.com

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