Floridaskater- Hopetown damage from Irene

[Tom]

Floridaskater, give us an update when you can of damage reports. Hoping the eye goes east of you.

http://www.tilloocut.com/

[SteveM]

Tom, I didn't see this till today. The best report is www.hopetownfirerescue.com There is a link from that page with some pictures on Facebook. The bluff was breached in White Sound, flat across to the ocean now. The high road on the ocean north of Abaco Inn is in bad shape too. My boat, I have been told, is still standing on the jack stands. I feel very lucky.

Facebook Images

[Tom]

Overall great news Steve. Better than I hoped for. Of course, that's a macro look at things. Good luck!-Tom

[SteveM]

Just got some pics sent to me on the house. Looks like it did very well considering we had a direct hit! We will need a paint job, and I see a missing PVC downspout. I was scheduled to install Screen Armor next week around the patio. I had feared that top patio roof would lift off like an umbrella. That will go up soon. My wife is going over Sunday to clean out the fridge and bait freezer, no power for days and probably another week I'd guess. Just amazing we dodged the bullet, those Tiki gods are very light, made out of mesh and a light composite material, can't believe they are still standing. When I get pics of the boat I will post, probably not till next week when she gets home.

[SteveM]

I found some very good footage of the storm in Hope Town. Click on link. Not sure how to embed the video. http://stormvisuals.com/blog/2011/8/26/ ... ahama.html
This is our island, the guy gives a good description of things and the video is done well. Not ot downplay the Cat 3 storm, but the little Grady White they keep showing looked about that bad everytime I've seen it. No wonder someone left it there, but it makes a dramatic visual. Actually is riding out the mess pretty good for not setting it up very well.

[Shakey]

I have friend on his way to check his house in Hope Town hope fully it's fine, I'm sure it will need repainting at the least. We usually spend a few months at Sea Spray every year. Hopefully everyone faired well.

[SteveM]

Picture updates from Hope Town.
Our dock after high tide, filled with debris.


Under the dock, thick pilchards everywhere.


Patio damage was limited to exposed wood only. The Hardi Board and Trex Deck had no issues.


Lots of leaves in the boat, but no issues.


I have two sets of jack stands. I may prefer a cradle if anyone has an opinon on that I'd love to hear it.


Sitting pretty below the lighthouse:


Only damage was a paint scrape on the lettering. Gives it character I suppose....


Packed in tight. Right next to the Gas tanks!

[gplume]

How did the Abaco Inn fare??

[Tony Meola]

Steve

We have been using the same cradle since the boat was new. There are good points and bad points. The cradle limits you access to sections when you paint the bottom. It tends to get in the way a little.

We always make sure we are two blocks high otherwise she sits too low and is pain to paint and get the props off. Two blocks is about right. 3 would be better.

You will never have to worry about her falling off since the weight is spread out evenly.

In 36 years there is only one year that I would say that I actually think one winter she moved in the cradle. That was back in the late 70's. We had her covered with the ropes running under the boat. We now fasten the cover tie downs right to the cradle.

For some reason she was not quite right in the cradle. I guess when the yard set her in she was a little too far off center. The bow pads on the port side were not up against the hull. That winter we had a storm in February that gave us 100+ mile an hour winds. When we checked on the boat after the storm, whe was sitting perfectly in the cradle. I have to believe the wind got under that canvas and shifted the boat. That is the only way it could have happened. Thisis also the reason we now tie the canvas off to the cradle.

I should have a copy somewhere of the cradle layout from Bertram. I am not sure it will scan well but if I can find it and you want it let me know. We can give it a try. If it is clear then you are in good shape.

[SteveM]

Tony
Yeah if you can scan or copy the cradle diagram that would be wonderful. I have a full cover as well. Took all canvas off for the storm. I like the idea of tying it to the cradle too. I could put cleats on the cradle and it would make the job much easier.

Giff, the Abaco Inn did ok. They lost a few boards on the ocean side patio rails. The beach sand got move around a lot as it did everywhere. The island was breached down south by Seaspray.

Looking forward to going back and doing some maintenance, waxing, etc to get the boat ready for next year.

[Tony Meola]

Steve

I will see if I can darken up the document on the copier at work. Will email you a PDF at some point.

After looking at it if you need to see a picture of one I will be looking mine over sometime in the next couple of weeks and can take a picture and send it to you if you think you need it.

[SteveM]

Tony, Thank you very much. A few pictures would be great too. I appreciate it.

[Pete Fallon]

Steve,
My boat came with the original factory cradle when I bought her in 1978. It had been on the cradle, in inside covered storage from 1962 until 1977. I kept her on that cradle for 5 years before my parents moved to Florida in 83. (I used to store her in my parents back yard which was on Juniper cove in Salem Willows and had access for the 10 ton crane to come in and out, I lived on the water front but no access for the crane from land and rocks out front to far away for a crane on a barge to get into my backyard.).
After they moved I had to haul and store at a marina in Danvers and they wanted to charge me for storage of the cradle in the summer, so the cradle was cut up. I found it was a pain to paint the bottom, crawling in and out between the uprights and hardly enough room to pull the props without digging a hole to remove them. Now I have my own 4 jack stands and the marina in Indiantown requires 4 more which I rent, 4 stands per side plus tie down straps screwed into the ground. I've been there for 6 years and never saw a boat fall over from the wind.
Getting back to the cradle, I think it's more of a pain in the ass than it's worth, unless someone gives you one. They are big units that take up a lot of space and are very heavy, aleast mine was. I'd buy 6 good quality stands and forget about the cradle. Just my 2 cents worth of experience with a craddle.
Pete

[SteveM]

Pete,
My original thoughts on the cradle were from my experience with Hurricane Wilma in photos below. Every boat at Seminole boat yard was down and off their jack stands except for my 26 Bertram in the photo, very lucky. After that experience I keep trying to think of a way to keep the boat from being on it's side like the others shown. The yard I'm currenty in has an asphalt drive area. I don't think they would appreciate me screwing tie downs into it. The cradle does pose an issue for storage when I'm not in the yard, and I would have to build it to accomodate the fork lift. Yes it's starting to sound complex.

My other alternative is to buy a trailer and put the boat on my spare lot next to our house. Not sure if anyone on the island has a truck strong enough to pull it and launch it, plus we don't have a decent ramp on the island yet. That's another project I'm working on but it's creeping very slow to get funds or any enthusiasm.

I'll see if I can get tie downs in the yard somehow to the asphalt surface.

2005 Hurricane Wilma: Seminole Boat Yard North Palm Beach, FL

[Pete Fallon]

Steve,
I had my boat on the hard at South Florida Yachts in Riveria Beach just a few miles South of Seminole during Frances, Jeanne and Wilma with no problems. I was in Boston for all three storms, my house in Wellington didn't have a problem with Frances and Jeanne, but Wilma did a number on it. If I remember correctly Wilma came from the West( Not the usual easterly direction) and blew 138 mph at the marina. There were a lot of tornado's spawned by Wilma and Seminole had a pile of sailboats packed real close together with only 4 stands on each boat. All the damaged boats that I surveyed after Wilma had damage after eye passed and the westerly winds beat them into the docks on the back side of Singer Island.

As far as the cradle goes, I don't think it's worth the hassle. It looks like your pretty protected at the marina in the Islands. As far as the gasoline tanks go, if it blows hard enough to damage the tanks, a cradle is not going to help a bit.
Pete

[Mikey]

I don't see a stand chain in any of the pictures. I know most yards think that only blow boats need chaining. I wouldn't put mine on stands without chains that are tight enough to hold them together. Chains don't guarantee anything, but they are cheap insurance.

[SteveM]

Mikey, from what I recall there were no chains at Seminole. I've hear everyone say put chains on them. Does anyone have a picture or an explanation of how to chain the jack stands in place/togther? I suppose you could chain all four in a box configuration. Or, here's an idea. If I owned my own jack stands and knew exactly the spacing placement, I could cut some galvanized steel tubing and connect the jack stands with brackets, thereby making my own cradle without the hassle of building a wood one, and it's adjustable, and storage is not an issue. Anyone like that idea? Or find flaws in it?

[CaptPatrick]

Steve,

The safety chain runs from one of the stand pads under the keel and to the opposing stand pad. On commercially made jack stands there is a key hole in the angle iron cross brace designed to fit 3/16" galvanized chain.



Sometimes you can find used stands from a boat yard, but probably you'll have to buy new. Brownell makes the best stands: http://www.brownelltrailers.com/rok-boat-stands/



Br,

Patrick

[Mikey]

Thanks, Pat. That's the ticket.

[SteveM]

Yes, thank you Patrick! As always you are a wealth of information.

[Raybo Marine NY]

my opinion is given the choice I would rather have a trailer then a cradle for the purpose you need.
Trailer is much easier to move around and find a place to store when empty, even if you dont have a friend who can pull it a commercial hauler can do it, sometimes a mechanic at the yard might have a truck capable of doing it

[CaptPatrick]

Steve,

The minimum number of jack stands for a B31 is 4, but 6 is the recommended number. 2 at the transom, 2 below the forward engine bulkhead, and 2 below the forward
cabin bulkhead... Minimum of 4 keel blocks.

[SteveM]

Patrick,
Thank you for the blueprint.
I emailed Brownell and a fella named John called me first thing this morning. He suggested using their Crossbrace and Cradle configurations. Along with that I could have two jack stands up front. This would comply with the recommended 6 point setup. The combination of the Crossbrace and Cradle in the back end would keep it from tipping or losing a single standing jack stand if the wind lifted the boat in the air. The Cradle bar goes front to back along the side of the boat. The bent Crossbrace goes under the V of the boat, Port to Starboard. Not sure if they are meant to be combined in a square box or not as I vertical support beam on one is round and the other is square. Pics below. Would love to hear anyone's feedback or suggestions. I like this setup as it would be easier to store than a wooden cradle and less expensive, less heavy.

Cradle: 36", 48", or 72"



Crossbrace: 36", 48", or 72"

[SteveM]

I just spoke to John again at Brownel. He said they normally sell the cradle to go port to starboard as well, just like they sell the crossbar configuration. He had not thought of combining them into a box. However, if I wanted him to make a set with round supports on the cradle he could do that in order to slide the crossbar on and create a box similar to a fixed wooden cradle or a trailer. He said I would have to give him exact dimensions, deadrise, etc.

I am questioning if I the hull design would accomodate two jack stands on either side in an exact parrallel configuration.

Would love to hear from all of you engineering types out there. I am heading over this weekend and can measure the hull and look at it in person, measure, etc.

I would still put two up front with a crossbar, he said he could bend it to whatever I needed.

[CaptPatrick]

Steve,

Having moved around several hundred jack stands & in numerous configurations, from general haul out for bottom work to storm hauls, those combination stands don't make a bit of sense to me...

I personally would find them to be more of a liability than an asset.

Six singles would work better regardless of why you're hauling & and for whatever period. Shipping would also be less expensive and storage more convenient since all would be stackable.

[Rawleigh]

If it is going to blow that hard get an excavator to dig a hole to set it in.

[Marlin]

im a SWAG engineer and would consider the following, have u shaped metal bracket fabbed, similar to a shackle, slide on over the top and another over the bottom, make bracing out of 3/4 thin wall conduit, drill a hole in each end, x brace along each side and do atriangular type on each one toward the center secured to the blocking with lag bolts, make them all the same length, set up your erector set and set the boat, these pieces are easy to store and set up, u basically want this tinker toy cradle to remain in place if strong winds might cause the boat to lift, about 100 years ago when I ran a marina, we did the same concept by first laying planks perpendictuar to the keel from the transom forward approximately every 10 feet, set a piece of blocking on top the plank, shim a the contact points at the keel as the boat was set, prop up 4x4s as far outboard with an inward agile , a 2x8 pad was placed on top of this support to distribute the wt, a piece of 1x4 was nailed from upper area down to the keel blocking, sometimes another would be secured along the ground if the owner insisted, we also cross braced all the sections together fore to aft, then somebody invented the screw jacks, never lost a boat on the lake edge from wind or heavy waves in freezing conditions,fyi

[Tony Meola]

Steve,

The minimum number of jack stands for a B31 is 4, but 6 is the recommended number. 2 at the transom, 2 below the forward engine bulkhead, and 2 below the forward cabin bulkhead... Minimum of 4 keel blocks.

Steve

That was the image I was going to email you. So now you have it. I will still take a pic of the cradle to send you. Just in case.

If the weather is good up here this weekend, I need to get over to the marina to check my cradle out. After 36 years she is starting to need some work. Storage has not been an issue for me. Been sitting in the same spot every winter since around 1984. They don't even move the cradle in the summer. Just leave it right where it sits. I am up against a fence with the Starboard side open to the yard. I only need to leave room when I work on her for the Travel lift to pass by.

But I agree with the others, when I paint the bottom, I curse it.

[Mikey]

Steve,
Unless the ground in the yard is absolutely flat (in our dreams) you will have big trouble. Besides they will be heavy as crap.