East Wind - Spring 2011

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 26th, '11, 09:36

Here is a general update from my to do list back in the fall and winter.

The boat went over to Martins marine in Islip about a month ago now and should be back in the water this coming weekend.

Worked out my Babylon Village slip I will be in the Argyle Basin just south of Montauk Hwy by the waterfall and music pavilion.

Ed Curry was nice enough to donate a Foruno color fish finder FCV600L to East Wind which I had a new transducer installed. The props I picked up from Tony Meola have been installed along with new cutlass bearings.

The old sea cock fittings for the engine SW intakes were replaced with 90 degree valves. Since the thru hulls were in good shape I did not switch over to external strainers.

The old poorly done 110 was replaced, no inverter just two outlets, one in the head and another at the galley.

All the old fuse blocks in the engine compartment have been replaced with breakers.

All the zincs have been replaced and the bottom will get a fresh coat of paint today or tomorrow. And the hailing port still needs to be changed before she goes back in the water.

Also was having the hour meters and fuel gauge moved in anticipation of the pod going in (separate thread). The hour meters were corroded and falling apart, new meters have been installed in the engine compartment at the electricians suggestion. He is also a B31 owner and has been a big help.

The forward bilge pump was rewired as it was spliced with electrical tape in the bilge.

Of course I have the console pod from Capt Pat and seats similar to Bobs, project still TBD. Also thinking about bringing the boat to a buddies yard and put in the lift so I can tear out the trim tabs and remove the sword fish pulpit again Project TBD.

That's it for the moment boat should be back in the summer slip this weekend or early next week. A friend recommended Rising Tide Fuel as a gas delivery service, cheaper then filling up on the water? Anybody using him or a similar guy in the area?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Apr 26th, '11, 10:05

Pete - good deal, you are to be commended for not chasing your tail and doing the simple (and important) stuff first. Now enjoy her for a while and you will find plenty more to do.

They are really very simple boats.

UV

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 26th, '11, 10:39

When I had my boat at 3 mile harbor I always had direct delivery of fuel to my slip and it was meaningfully cheaper and very convenient. Yours is Gas so I would recommend delivery only when you are there.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 26th, '11, 11:05

UV,

Simplicity is the key!

I could easily live with a portapotty, a case of Poland spring and some hand sanitizer. Lose the sinks, pump, marine head, fresh water and holding tank. I'm not going to go through the trouble of pulling them out but you get my point. Bare bones.

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 26th, '11, 11:06

walterk wrote:When I had my boat at 3 mile harbor I always had direct delivery of fuel to my slip and it was meaningfully cheaper and very convenient. Yours is Gas so I would recommend delivery only when you are there.

Walter,

Help me understand why I need to be there.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Apr 26th, '11, 11:42

PeterPalmieri wrote:Help me understand why I need to be there.

So that when the gas guy pumps 150 gallons of gas into your bilge, blows up, sets the marina on fire, and pollutes the harbor.......your insurance company won't hang up on you when you call.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 26th, '11, 11:50

Basic concerns of venting and possible overflow for which you would be held responsible (even with diesel). I'd want the bilge well aired out before closing her up again. Stuff you would normally do, but wouldn't expect a fuel delivery guy to do.

Russ Pagels · Post by **Russ Pagels** » Apr 26th, '11, 11:58

He might not know the difference between a rod holder and the gas fill. it does happen,don't ask me how I know.....Russ

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 26th, '11, 12:17

That reminds me Russ....I had a dock boy fill my gasser with diesel once...ugh!

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Apr 26th, '11, 14:35

Mike:

Nice job of cutting it down to the truly important concepts. Barry Soetoro would never want you writing his speechs!

Tom

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Apr 26th, '11, 14:44

I call 'em like I see 'em......

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 26th, '11, 14:53

I would plan on meeting him down there the first time. After that if I have to babysit it's probably not worth the trouble.

I did have a gas dock fill my boat with diesel once years ago kind of made for a very bad season.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 26th, '11, 19:16

i had my boat filled at the dock for five years no prob. i was there a few times by chance. the guy knew what he was doing.

worth it as far as i was concerned.

and much easier than the last few years of the gas can two step.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 26th, '11, 20:39

Peter

Glad to see you will be getting to enjoy it. Like UV said do the simple things first. But his comment on a boat being simple, no boat project is ever simple. Ask anyone here how I know.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Apr 27th, '11, 07:52

i have been using rising tide---very happy with them.

I am always there when they come, no issues.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Apr 27th, '11, 08:19

There is another 31 bert already in Argyle Basin right by the gazebo. It is a nice off white and was just painted. It used to be on shore road also. It also used to have a bright red sign on the rear door "Alice? Who the f&^k is Alice?"

I always wondered about the sign and the story.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 27th, '11, 09:55

captbone wrote:There is another 31 bert already in Argyle Basin right by the gazebo. It is a nice off white and was just painted. It used to be on shore road also. It also used to have a bright red sign on the rear door "Alice? Who the f&^k is Alice?"

I always wondered about the sign and the story.

Now I'll never get used to not living next door to Alice...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 27th, '11, 10:39

I don't know the guy who owns the boat. But we have a mutual friend, says he's a really nice guy. I believe he is a diesel mechanic. I am sure I will meet him down there. I will get the scoop on Alice.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Apr 27th, '11, 11:53

i sold my first 31 to a guy in babylon a fbc, the window on the door was stained glass, a pic of a fish, anyone know the boat, or if its still around

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Apr 27th, '11, 12:08

Bare Naked Ladies Alice?

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 27th, '11, 15:56

Just added a new set of engine compartment fire extinguishers to the list. Almost there.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 27th, '11, 16:29

TailhookTom wrote:Bare Naked Ladies Alice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsrfovOPcjk

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 28th, '11, 09:49

When I originally did the survey on the boat it had 17x16 props. We hit 5000 rpms WOT with about 50 gallons of fuel and 4 adults. With those props the boat was pretty consistent at 18.5kts at 2800 Rpms.

I now have Tonys props on, I believe 18x19 and a new set of cutlass bearings. I am hoping the WOT drops to 4300-4400 RPMS and my 2800 cruise picks up to more then 20kts.

Are my expectations realistic? I should be running the boat Saturday, any significant change to how the boat handles at the dock?

Pete

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Apr 28th, '11, 10:09

peter
i think your right in the ball park with thous #s if i rememmber correctly from when i had my fbc with 454 crusaders

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 28th, '11, 10:48

That would be better then my numbers...2800 is 17-18 knot cruise for me with 440's.

Are you supposed to max out at 5000 or 4400rpm at wot? Whatever the number, make sure you can attain it at WOT.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Apr 28th, '11, 10:59

Peter,

What are your transmission reductions?

Any idea how much your boat weighs?

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 28th, '11, 11:01

Sim not sure what the max RPM should be but I do know it's less then 5000.

I am surely getting 18 knots with the old props.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 28th, '11, 11:03

Borg Warner 10-18-004

Don't know the real weight.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 28th, '11, 20:32

Peter

The Transmissions should be 1.5 to 1. With the 18x19's you should come down to around 4400 RPM's. No matter what you do, I don't think you will get much more than a 20 knot cruise. I used to get 19 to 20 at 3000 RPM's with the mercruiser 454''s.

The important part is to get those engines down so they don't over rev. Are you sure your Tachs are not off. 2800 RPM's spinning that small wheel should probably have you less than 18 knots.

Bob could comment on this better than me, but unless your Transmission is something other than 1.5 to 1 and I doubt it is, the engine at 2800 RPM's would be way below the HP/Torque curvbe ratio for you to get that kind of performance out of her. Unless and maybe your transmission is something like 2 to 1.

The reduction formula is on the tag on the transmission.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 28th, '11, 22:21

tony you are right in what you say ;should be 1.5 to 1 . 5000 rpm is to high peter . incidently why not warm engines to operating temp. then one engine at time go to wot. in neutral and tell us rpm indicated on tach .of each engine .

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Apr 28th, '11, 22:28

then one engine at time go to wot.

Not a great idea on gas engines... Not the same as on governed diesels.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 28th, '11, 22:33

i will do it for you peter . i have to know if you at stops or" prop out".capt. we only hold for a second , belive it or not less risk then under load at wot. like a overproped boat .

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Apr 29th, '11, 06:25

Gotta agree with capt Patrick on this on - no governor on those gas engines. You risk blowing them up if you go to WOT in neutral

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 29th, '11, 08:41

Just got my yard bill and separate bill from electrician. Looks like enough dough and upgrading for a while hopefully. Figuring I have to stop for 150 gallons @ $5 on the way home tomorrow, tack on $750.

The gears are 1.5, I have no reason to think my tacks are not accurate, but anything is possible Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow. Figuring I'll be happy if I can get 20kts at 2800.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 29th, '11, 08:49

I'd be real happy with that too!!

But I'd expect to see 19mph at best if light on fuel, wind at you back, going with current and coming down the face of a wave.

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Apr 29th, '11, 09:01

Peter, I have 1.5 to 1 gears behind my Yanmars with 18 x 18 DJX nibrals and a meduim cup. I cruise mine at 2750 rpm which gives me 25 mph or 21.75 knots. It's a B28 but, that shouldn't make that much difference.

Eddy G.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 29th, '11, 09:55

sim wrote:I'd be real happy with that too!!

But I'd expect to see 19mph at best if light on fuel, wind at you back, going with current and coming down the face of a wave.

Something has to be up then. I have been clocking 18 kts or 20.5 mph with the old props. The survey report shows:

15kts at 2500
19kts at 3000
22kts at 3500
24.5 at 4000
29.5 at WOT (5000 port 4900 starboard)

It's not my GPS as we confirmed my unit and a separate hand held.

If everyone else is not getting similar results then my tacks must be off. Not something I am going to worry about to much.

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Apr 29th, '11, 10:07

19 knots at 3000 rpm is what I use to get with my 170 Yanmars. 1.5 to 1 gears with 18 x16 nibrals with very little cup. I had to use the tabs to bring the bow down some and it still was pushing a bit of water. So probably more slip than at 22 knots.

Eddy G.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Apr 29th, '11, 10:07

not sure what motors you have---but i would be suspect of big blocks turning 5000 rpm ---or you are turning props that are smaller than 18 X19

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 29th, '11, 10:19

Just bought the boat in the late fall it came with 17x16 and got up to 5000rpms. Just had the boat switched over to 18x19 to bring down my WOT and increase my cruising speed.

454s

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 29th, '11, 10:43

I would guess that should bring her down to about 4700 or a little less. Easier on your engines and probably better performance. Let us know. Good luck.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Apr 29th, '11, 12:06

We taking bets.

I'm gonna go with 4500

whose next

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Apr 29th, '11, 13:52

I had 18x18s 3-blades and 17/15 w/cup 4-blades on my 69 FBC w/454s and 1.5/1 Gears. About the same numbers with the 3 and 4-blades. Clean and light, she ran about 19/20 knts at 2800 rpms, and 22 knts at 3000 rpms. When I first got her, I got about 30-32 knts at 4200 rpms best I can remember. I stayed away from WOT with my old gassers. I personnally would never have taken my 454s to WOT unloaded--can't imagine.

Your cruise numbers sound OK, but your WOT numbers have to be way off. No way should you get 5000 out of 454s with those cruise numbers, and if she is actually turning 5000, then you should get alot more than 29.5 knts. Sooo, being that you verified your speeds, I'm guessing your tachs are off. No bets until you check your tachs.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 29th, '11, 18:15

Peter, every boat runs a little different.

You will find out soon enought and I hope you are pleased!

Carl

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 29th, '11, 18:27

i guess after running 496" at 9000 rpm for years it is a little bit easier for me to run a 454" 330hp at 4800 rpm a few seconds with linkage off and thottle in hand i set new stops however if indeed 5000rpm in gear engines are real sweet , personally i doubt it.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 29th, '11, 20:36

I am bettng that the props gets Peter down to 4400. 19 knots at 3000 RPM sounds right but the top end is way off.

If Peter gets down under 4500 then he is good. Over 4500 he needs more cup. Those props should have a slight cup to them. I don't remember how much. But like I said, with the 454 Mercruisers I used to hit the top around 4200.

Anyone else willing to join the RPM lottery.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 29th, '11, 21:04

I have found that cupping works very well on Diesels because it works at the top end of the rpm scale and cruise is 2-300 under WOT. On Gas engines where you're actually cruising 1000+ under WOT, does it work as well?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 29th, '11, 22:41

yes it does walter . cupping works at all rpm because instead of incresing pitch thus churning white water we increase effiency buy pushing more water (better bite) and more effiency at any given rpm. (less slip).

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 30th, '11, 12:31

walterk wrote:I have found that cupping works very well on Diesels because it works at the top end of the rpm scale and cruise is 2-300 under WOT. On Gas engines where you're actually cruising 1000+ under WOT, does it work as well?

Walter, with gassers even at a 1000 off WOT our wheels will usually be turning faster then diesels at 200 off the pins. We do not have the torque to push big wheels, so we spin the lil' ones faster. A cup can play a big roll on our mid-range to top end performance.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 30th, '11, 20:38

19.5 @ 2800
32 @ 4300 WOT

bertram31.com

East Wind - Spring 2011

East Wind - Spring 2011

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