31 Bertram with twin 350 yamaha story

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31 Bertram with twin 350 yamaha story

Post by captbone »

I know this is not everyones cup of tea but you cant deny 50mph top speed, shallow water ability and the many benefits of outboards.

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To offset the weight fo the Yamaha 350s on the stern, Stallings and the restoration team converted the old engine wells.



Legendary Bertram® 31 Gets Most Unusual Repower Solution

The Bertram® 31 is arguably one of the most famous faces on the water. Designed by the legendary Ray Hunt, the boat, which was in production for 25 years, remains a favorite of boating and fishing fanatics worldwide. For Bertram® 31 enthusiast Butch Stallings of Mobile, Ala., purchasing and then taking on the complete restoration of the 31-foot vessel was a dream come true.

“I have always wanted a 31 Bertram,” said Stallings. “When I purchased this one in 2005, my intention was to restore the boat back to its original, pristine condition, but I wanted to look at different ways to repower the boat.”

The same year Stallings bought the Bertram®, Yamaha introduced the F350 outboard – an offshore giant capable of delivering more power and thrust than any other outboard of its kind. Stallings wanted to make his Bertam® into a real show piece and what better way to do that, he figured, than to power it with twin F350s. Knowing that much of the water around him was shallow bay water, he also did not want to deal with the hassle of under water propellers. Though his decision was an easy one to make, the task itself was not without its major obstacles.

First, the boat’s original engines were situated mid-ship, so there were weight distribution issues to address when installing the 350s on a bracket on the stern. But before the project ever began, Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf, completely washing the Bertram into the bay – upside down. The Bertram’s® refurbishing team, consisting of the the crew from Dog River Marina of Mobile, recovered the hull and boat and then slowly restarted the restoration – this time many steps back from where they originally began.




With the help of Sonny Middleton of Dog River Marina, Stallings purchased the twin F350s from Ships Chandler in Destin, Fla. To help offset the weight of the stern bracket with the F350s, the restoration team converted the old engine wells into spaces for air conditioning, generator and other storage. In addition, the interior received a complete overhaul.

“Most everything in and on the boat had to be custom made by Dog River Marina and its vendors,” said Stallings. “We started this project in 2005 and finally finished in the spring of 2009. The process was long but most definitely worth the wait as the finished product was given an overall vessel rating condition of “Excellent (Bristol). A vessel that receives this type of rating is considered maintained in mint fashion - usually better than factory condition, loaded with extras - a rarity.”

Stallings, who has chosen Yamaha to power several of his boats, has not been disappointed by his decision to repower his 31 Bertram® with the F350s.

“The 31 Bertram with the F350s is very fast and fuel efficient. This is an extremely recognizable boat and nothing but the best would do in terms of workmanship and power. I wanted something that fit the boat’s style and also delivered the performance and dependability I needed,” said Stallings. “Everywhere we go, other boaters stare, take pictures and some make it a point to turn around for a second look. It is truly a remarkable and beautiful boat, and more than likely the only one of its kind in the world. The expertise from the team at Dog River Marina coupled with the addition of the Yamaha F350s helped us create the show piece we desired and we could not be more pleased with the results.” Y
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Post by Carl »

What is 'very fast and fuel efficient" ?

50mph...got the very fast part...but "efficient" needs clarification.


Not butt ugly...but like the Classic lines much much more betterer. Although a 50mph top speed cannot be over looked, nor can the additional storage space...
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Post by captbone »

I have actually read the top speed is 56mph but have been unable to confirm.

I would guess cruise is around 1mpg at 30mph.
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Post by fishlook »

i'd like to see how they utilized the engine bay space.
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Post by In Memory of Vicroy »

Please enumerate the "many benefits of outboards".

UV
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Post by Brewster Minton »

What happens when you back down fast and spin on a dime with the man in the blue suit dancing.
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Post by Charlie »

Let's see that is 1600 pounds plus the bracket hanging two feet behind the transom. Must look funny just sitting still. Wonder how it drifts?
Would someone get 8 of their 200 hundred buddies to sit on the transom of a 31B and take a picture. I would just really like to know how you keep the boat in trim. Maybe those fillable water bladders they use for wakeboarders in the bow???
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Post by captbone »

The bracket looks like it provides at least a 1000lbs of floatation.

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Post by mike ohlstein »

That's about $60,000 worth of egg beaters that probably won't last ten years.
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Post by Ric »

wow.,.,.guys dont hold back tell him how you really feel,.,,.,if your happy with the results ,.,.,really that is all that matters,,,,,different strokes for different folks.,.,.,.,.,.,
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Post by bob lico »

mike thats what oakdale yacth does sell 350hp yamaha . absolutely positive will not make 1000 hours without major repair. the precessors of the 350hp 4 stroke is the 250hp (300hp is 2 stroke) and they are dropping like flys . usually lower unit goes first.you have to see one of these 350 apart . a huge mass of surpintine belts driving everything oil pumps,alternators,fuel injection pump, camshafts, all have alluminum v belt pullys that explode sooner or later . actually it looks like metal failure knocks the side off pullie and belt fly apart ------there goes powerhead usually split the block as valves contact pistons .i will photo one apart as soon as i get in the outboard shop with camara.incidently susuki uses chain drive and sprockets .
i mile per gallon at 30 mph ! that means no way could this boat get to the 100 square of the canyon and back!!!! i get better then 2 miles per gallon at 30mph. do realize in a 10,000 lbs 32' everglades at wot around 60mph the burn rate is 70 gallons a hour so that 55 mph bertram is foolish talk . i have driven at least 40 of these twin and tripple 350hp yamaha set ups . the idea of putting the thottle to the metal is ridiculous except to use as a sales gimmick to a customer.we have at least 20 of these mutible 350hp yamaha`s at the oakdale location if somebody wants to inquire. forgetting the ridiculous use of fuel at 55mph this set up will adversely effect the running plane of the boat in 3 to 4 foot swells as compared to inboards she will launch ----trust me
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Post by Charlie »

Thanks for the info on the fact the bracket adds to the lift. I was figuring this thing drifted around with it's bow way up in the air.
A neighbor down the lagoon has one of those 35 Everglades with trip-350's. Last year when it was brand new he lost a month or more prime fishing with engine trouble. This year has been more of the same. I would hate to own that thing when the engines are out of warranty. At WOT I hear she burns over 100 gallons per hour and only makes a little over 50 kts.
If I had 350 thousand or so to spend I gett'in a diesel boat.
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Post by bob lico »

charlie the fuel burn only has two digits so the triple 350hp yamaha normally read 99gph when you drop the hammer. the twin burns 68 to 70 gph . the bad news is the room you created by removing the oem engine set up will now have to be used to hold two 175 to 200 gallon tanks that with 90% of these boat have now fountain,grady white, everglades,hydro -sport, see- vee ,regulator,jupiter all have 350 to 400 gallons on there big models. the good news is they are relly quiet if thats a inportant factor to some of us. when we get down to basics and become open minded as to longivity we have a natural asperated 6 cyl.detroit diesel on one side to a very hightly sophistacated alluminum engine, entirely driven by computer/electronics sitting in salt water and salt water cooled . ok children which one is going offshore day in day out with hours and hours of running time!!! let along the major factor of a ton of weight dead center of the hull . did someone say centroid of gravity or all the other factors affecting a 31 bertram .a outboard on a ironing board you won a 31 bertram loaded to the snot canyon bound forget about it.
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Post by captbone »

Playing devils advocate, dont shoot the messenger.


As much as you think its not for you, you do have to admit that it does have its place.

If you lived in South Florida and ran to the bahamas then this would be the ideal set up.

Not everyone goes to the canyon every day/all day. The talk is always about offshore but the vast majority of people are not going offshore.

The average boater puts 35 hours a year on their engines and will never wear out an outboard, BB gas engine, or even come close to the long term benefits of diesel.
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Post by Carl »

captbone wrote:Playing devils advocate, dont shoot the messenger.


As much as you think its not for you, you do have to admit that it does have its place.

If you lived in South Florida and ran to the bahamas then this would be the ideal set up.

Not everyone goes to the canyon every day/all day. The talk is always about offshore but the vast majority of people are not going offshore.

The average boater puts 35 hours a year on their engines and will never wear out an outboard, BB gas engine, or even come close to the long term benefits of diesel.
Then why lay out all that cash for outbourds ?? 35hours??
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

if every boat on the water was a diesel 31 what would we all talk about?
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Post by captbone »

sim wrote: Then why lay out all that cash for outbourds ?? 35hours??

Because its difficult to paddle a 31??? :)
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Post by Carl »

LOL...got me there.

For me, not enough benefit for the trade-offs. I wasn't to sure about Trim Tabs because they clutter the Transom up ( but Bob Lico talked me into them...couldn't resist ) Hanging two beasts off the back...

To each his own...wouldn't mind a trial ride thou...I have been wrong before.


Hard to paddle....good one!
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Post by mike ohlstein »

captbone wrote:The average boater puts 35 hours a year on their engines and will never wear out an outboard, BB gas engine, or even come close to the long term benefits of diesel.


Simply not true. Time is as big (or bigger) an enemy as running hours. Dissimilar metals sitting in salt water=bye bye sixty large.

Sure, if you lift the boat out of the water and flush with fresh water and fog the engines after every use........they should last a long time. Otherwise, it's only something for someone with deep pockets who doesn't mind the down time associated with repair.
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Post by randall »

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

you get an idea of how it sits in the water by that waterline, does not look much worse then any other 31 with diesel power, generator, etc
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Post by randall »

[, does not look much worse then any other 31 with diesel power




i beg to differ.

i respect anyones right to do what they want and i think you can make a great CC out of any small bertram hull............but that just dosent look right to me.

just my opinion.
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Post by Face »

I highly doubt that bracket provides 1,000lbs of flotation. Any facts on this?
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Post by Face »

For what it's worth:
Designed for today’s heavier, wider outboards up to 350 horsepower, many OEM builders including Concept, Oceanmaster, Proline, and Angler use its transom brackets, which provide better top-end speed with the same power, quicker back-down ability and added space in the cockpit. The watertight bracket adds additional flotation–685 pounds in the twin bracket and 315 pounds in the single bracket–that can allow the boat to float higher with the same engine package.

From http://www.stainlessmarine.com/
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Post by captbone »

mike ohlstein wrote:

Simply not true. Time is as big (or bigger) an enemy as running hours. Dissimilar metals sitting in salt water=bye bye sixty large.

Sure, if you lift the boat out of the water and flush with fresh water and fog the engines after every use........they should last a long time. Otherwise, it's only something for someone with deep pockets who doesn't mind the down time associated with repair.



The engines themselves dont wear out. There are plenty of early 1990s outboard motors still running in saltwater 20+ years later. I dont know where these numbers come from. Several watertaxi companies have 2000 hours on the 350hp yamahas? Suffolk County Police department does 2000 hours a year on some of there Safeboats with the verados. They are every where and make up the vast majority of engines out there. How many 25ft Bertrams are running around with original I/O 's ? The vast majority of them.

The engines dont wear out, something expensive will fail and then people make a cost/benefit analysis if they want to repair.

Its the same thing with diesel/gas in pickup trucks. The vast majority of people will not see any benefit of diesel unless they tow heavy or do a ton of miles. A gas engine will outlast 99.9% of its users and this is proven time and time again in every day life.

That bracket is one of the largest ones that Armstrong makes and just by volume along must displace 1000lbs. I am sure some can estimate the diamentions and get the buoyance.
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Post by Face »

Doesn't appear to be an Armstrong product. See my link above. I suspect the flotation is negligible.
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

randall wrote:[, does not look much worse then any other 31 with diesel power




i beg to differ.

i respect anyones right to do what they want and i think you can make a great CC out of any small bertram hull............but that just dosent look right to me.

just my opinion.
the WATERLINE does not look any worse, meaning that it does not look like it sits that much lower in the water


I like bertrams with nothing on them, no rails, no towers, nothing, but I got to say those things dont look all that bad back there............. imagine if there were THREE OF THEM! AHHHHHHHHHHH Bob would have a fit
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Post by mike ohlstein »

First, putting 2000 hours on an engine in one year will probably do less damage to it than putting 500 hours on over ten years.

Second, most of those old engines that are still in service didn't have aluminium parts in them. Many are also fresh water cooled.

Now as for the life span of the 350.....who knows. It's too new to be able to tell. Yamaha made a great 200HP two stroke that ran great and had a respectable service life. Then they tried to pump 250 HP out of the same block and turned it into a short fused time bomb.

My point is that with all of the tried and true options that are out there, this choice seems like a poor way to gamble with sixty thousand dollars in hardware alone. I'l bet that the repower was close to 75K, and that doesn't consider additional fuel tanks, etc.

And speaking of ethanol.......I hope he replaced his main tank or the whole discussion is going to mean very little.....very soon.
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Post by bob lico »

robbie just one item need further explanation. when you take a damage/nelected bertram to your shop and completely gut it then put in a self bailing cockpit floor with two 200 gal. tanks then make a center console out of it .good for you this is not bad pushing it with twin 225 4 stroke , but to do the same job with a full blown out fbc. now you have the outboard enemy ----weight .you go to twin 350hp and you defeated the whole economic game .
the door opens up and joe blow walks in " want to buy a boat" ok will you be fishing and some family outings----yes well we have many to look at nobody i mean nobody will look at that damn twin yamaha 250hp when the 3 year or 5 year extended warranty is up you have to give it away even with a perfect service record.thats a fact of life now you have a luhrs with twin yanmars or cummins and tell the same guy there is 1500 hours on the boat --sort of a snicker " just about broken in ha" that my friends is the buying public oh you want to extend the warantee on the outboards ---no problem $ 3,000 each !!!!! ouch one more time there is no way on GODS green earth that even a real good mechanic is going into the yamaha powerhead ----don`t even attemp a simple tune up
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Post by Brewster Minton »

I love the "Mean Team"! But you could not meet nicer people.
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Post by Bob H. »

In the end its still THAT guys boat built the way HE wanted it built, right wrong or other wise...I had a clear picture of WHERE I wanted to end up when I started...we all have different paths to take...Second Brews comment on "still the nicest poeple youll ever meet"..AMEN
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

I have a customer I joke around with that we should build him a center console 31 and put 3 outboards on it, we joke how all the faithful would go nuts and want to burn the boat, now I get a taste of the reaction it would get

Tough crowd man, tough crowd



I can bet part of the power choice has to deal with his local service, the guy might have already got the reach around from his local diesel repair more then once and maybe he got exceptional service and usage from his Yamaha, there is always another side of the story. In the end though the guy wanted, and he got and it sounds like the boat performs for his use, which is a good thing for all those involved.

You guys can always buy the boat one day and rip that bracket off and convert it to whatever you like, its soul still lives.
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Post by In Memory Walter K »

There's a beautiful 31 center console with outboards called "Targeted Species" if I am not mistaken, that I saw at one of the UVI's in Louisiana's Port Eads. Had a big Blue Marlin in the cockpit, and it wasn't it's first. It has been done and from all reports, it performs well and is a head turner.
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Post by Rocky »

More than one way to skin a cat, I think we all put a lot of money into any 31, this one just to taylor to that special need? There, I remained politically correct!
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Post by coolair »

yall are worse than a bunch old women!
what ever floats your boat :-D
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Post by randall »

I like bertrams with nothing on them, no rails, no towers, nothing,


ever seen mine?


like walter said..".targeted species" is my idea of an outboard bertram.i have a photo somewhere of that marlin layin in the cockpit.
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Post by JohnCranston »

You guys are much nicer in person...mainly you, Mike.
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Post by captbone »

Hey its different strokes for different folks.

I knew that this boat would not go over so well but wanted to show something different from the cookie cutter Cummins remans for power.


Some of the views on outboards are off the mark by far though. Twin 250hp/300hp outboards would push that boat without any issue just as targeted species is set up. It does not have to be twin 350hp engines. To suggest that no one can go into a Yamaha powerhead or even attempt a tune up is just foolish. It is very reasonable to expect an outboard engine to last 10 years. The cost of the extended warranty is same as what you would pay for any other engine (gas I/O, inboard, jet, diesel) and now you routinely get 6-7 years from the OEM.

A modern four stroke or DFI will give you years of reliable, troublefree service.
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Post by bob lico »

your hired start monday!!!!
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

bob man if a potential yammie 350 customers of Oakdale stumble upon your posts............. as Ricky used to say "you have some splainen' to do"
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Post by mike ohlstein »

Just stiring the pot, John. It's what's expected of me......
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Post by scot »

Captbone,

It get's even worse if you bring up stern drives.
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Post by JohnCranston »

OK,
Which is better, Cummins or Yanmar. I don't think this subject has ever been covered.
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Post by Harry Babb »

Cranston wrote:OK,
Which is better, Cummins or Yanmar. I don't think this subject has ever been covered.
Thanks.

Yes, absolutely......yes

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Post by bob lico »

robbie i figure i was on to something and a big relief for us. yamaha factory rep. put "the arm" on jim skulky with the only factory authorization on li to go into the computor and powerhead under factory warrantee all others turn in powerhead and factory authorizes replacement parts . the last few years are hectic ,the maintenace dept drop all other repairs to devote shop space and personel to repair of 250/350hp yamaha repair the yard is filled with them.we gave up all paint/ fiberglass repair incidently . we have a contractor with a trailer come in for small repair. we are the experts in the area for this as well as a lesser amount the big susuki ,varado`s . diesel repair is almost non existance in house. the hard part is the schooling every year, every upgrade for yamaha so this discussion is not the regular " i have a friend who`s brother knows a guy who`s sister husband told me this about a yamaha big block" end it right there!
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Post by jspiezio »

Does she have a bow thruster? Those engines are too close together to spin her easily in tight quarters. That was the major complaint I had with our 32 Regulator with Yamaha 300s. Super fast and lots of fun, but it was hard to maneuver when spinning in tight quarters, a bow thruster would have been nice in that boat.
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Post by Raybo Marine NY »

wow Bob, this is the first time I have heard of a factory giving a dealer full ECU access, that is something
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Post by jspiezio »

Bob- the guys over at Suffolk are pretty good at servicing these Yamahas as well, most people think Harold is by far the best around.
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Post by bob lico »

robbie i could not belive it either. a brand new 36' grady white with triple 350hp blew up with 11 hours the owner was a big time lawyer and put the pressure on . yamaha rep. removed boat from that yard and brought it to jim at oakdale yacth to go into powerhead and ecu to first find out what happened and then repair. remember robbie thats all he does every day 250/350 yamaha .like you spraying imron every day you become a specialist.
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Post by captbone »

The problem with being in the business is that you see all the problems. If you are a marine tech working on yamaha you started to think that man these things all break but it is simply your perspective.

Yamaha currently has 40% of the US outboard motor market and everyone loves their engines. The failure rate within the first couple hundred hours is well below 1% same as any other major product.

People should not be scared of outboards engines giving you years of troublefree service.

You can also have your pick of the litter for the best people to do your work and are not held hostage by HO Penn or Cummins.

Living on Long Island you have 6 of the best techs in the country all within 50 miles from different dealerships.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/tr ... ician.aspx
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