Bertram 26 Mark II Outboard

[jprobins]

We recently purchased a 1983 26 outboard, after looking for some time. There seems to be very little information available about them. Some say as few as 8 were made; others say as many as 40. I have also heard that they were never actually in production, but were only made to order. Would be interested in any information anyone might have about this classic.

Jim

[Rocket]

Saw one in Gibsons BC Canada two weeks ago, so they can't be that rare! Very cool boats.

[nestorpr]

We recently purchased a 1983 26 outboard, after looking for some time. There seems to be very little information available about them. Some say as few as 8 were made; others say as many as 40. I have also heard that they were never actually in production, but were only made to order. Would be interested in any information anyone might have about this classic.

Jim

I remember seeing the first ones at the Miami Boat Show back in 82 or 83 and yes, they were a production boat, at least that's what the Bertram rep told me. I'm not sure how many were made but there have been quite a few for sale the past few years. Great boat, congratulations on the purchase!

[Bertramp]

There were WAY more of the inboard version made ... I believe the outboard version was a standard available model, but there are not a lot of them around. A friend in Sag Harbor who owns a Bert 37 has one mothballed.

[jprobins]

The inboards were definitely more popular. I have a picture of the 26 outboard in the Bertram lineup at the 83 Miami boat show. Any idea on where I might be able to get ahold of an owner's manual?

A previous owner replaced all the original teak with black duraboard.
Functional but not terribly attractive. My plan is to replace it with teak. An acquaintance suggested using mahogany instead of teak. It is on the cockpit ceilings and trim, not the sole. Why would mahogany be superior or would it?

[randall]

mahogany is attractive but requires more upkeep than teak.

[jprobins]

Something requires MORE upkeep than teak!?!

[Bertramp]

mahogany is attractive but requires more upkeep than teak.

Can't comment on upkeep, but this is surely good looking !!

[randall]

thanks....i use matte poly every other year on the cover boards. i take the swim platform off and refinish every 3 years.

[SteveM]

Jim,
I have one as well. Great boat. check out www.bertram26.com it is devoted to the rare outboard model. Very few were made. Probably on a special order basis.
Steve

[jprobins]

Thanks, Steve. We found that site recently. The photos are great. Any idea where I could find a copy of the original manual?

[JohnCranston]

Jim,
My best friend, Eddie Tovar, bought a 26 outboard a couple of years ago. I've been out on it several times and she handls the Tx seas real nice...fast and fairly dry...twin 200 OMC's. Eddie lives in S.Houston. Let me know if you want to see the boat or meet up with us.

[coolair]

john,
thats a 26?
i thought she was biger, boats over by hobby right?

[JohnCranston]

Matt,
Yes, the boat is back at Eddie's house getting some new electronics installed on her. He'll probably drag her back to my place in Freeport.

[TakinOnWater]

Hello, I am currently in the process of puchasing a 1983 26' Bertram Moppie II mini sport fish. I have not been able to find much information about this specific model and had a few concerns about the purchase, mainly resale should I decide that its too much boat for me. I am a center console outboard guy and don't know much about the older bertrams or older inboards.

I have seen the bertram26.com site, but all those hulls are outboards.

The boat is a little rough around the edges but has just had all the steering, electronics, gauges, cables, control boxes, hydrolics, packless stuffing boxes replaced and has 2 new 5.7 ltr straight inboards installed this year (One has under 5hrs and was a marine power crate motor and the other has under 40hrs and was fully rebuilt by Jasper). They did all new risers and manifolds, and basically replaced or reconditioned anything that could possibly cause trouble when fishing offshore, as the owner is an avid offshore fisherman. The boat is very mechanically sound but is well fished and a little beat up cosmetically. The interior had a new paint job and plastic curtain enslosures and all the cushions replaced, but the hull is very worn, yet solid. A paint job would transform it on the outside, but I would probably not bother with it. It is unique in that it has a mini fly bridge/ aluminum tuna tower on top of the hard top, with full controls up top and down below. The hull is solid.

My question is if I do buy this boat and I fall out of love with it, how hard will it be to sell? Is there a big market for these unique bertram 26' boats? Im afraid I will never be able to sell it if I pull the trigger on it.

I always loved center consoles because if you had to get rid of it there was always a few interested buyers for them, and was a quick sale.

Also, this boat has the original fuel tank, but its seen plenty of ethanol fuel and has had no problems. What should I think about this?

The seller wants 20k, I may be able to get it for less....

Any insight would be appreciated. thanks

[In Memory Walter K]

Forget all your other concerns. If that boat has the original fuel tank, don't even consider it! You live in NY and I promise you that within one season the Ethanol in your fuel will do in those two engines! On top of all that, if you are concerned about resale, NO ONE will buy a Bertram of ANY size with gas engines and the original fiberglass tank. The deck removal, new aluminum tank, engine repairs and complete replacement of all fuel lines from the fill and vent in will cost you close to $20 G's.

[TakinOnWater]

So basically I am just asking for trouble if I buy this boat? Are there any boats out there running with original tanks that have not had problems, or are the numbers with issues too numerous to even run the risk?

What if I took a look inside with a mirror and checked out the top of the inside of the tank, if its not peeling would I be able to get away with a few years of trouble free operation?

Thank you very much for your reply

[Peter]

If the engines are not yet damaged by the E-10 replacing the tanks isn't that big a deal, but it MUST be done. Yes some boats have had less problems than others when it comes to the ethanol and the fiberglass tanks, but consensus is that eventually all the old fiberglass tanks will break down with ethanol and cause expensive engine problems. So you must count on tank replacement as an immediate concern before using the boat.... but it should only cost a couple of thousand to do that.

On other stuff:

Old Bert 25's are in good demand among enthusiasts, so selling it if you don't like it won't be impossible, even if you do no other work but the tank replacemet.
Guys who buy these boats generally buy them for the hull only, or hull and solid running gear, looking to cusomize them in some way or other, even if that is only painting the hull their favorite color. They don't expect nor or are even looking for a turn key fishing boat, so money spent on cosmetics would be money you are less likely to recover in a re-sale. Good engines and running gear are the most important factors after a sound hull and deck.

For a lot more information go here to the 25 board:

http://simplifying.net/phpbb/index.php

The inboards used v-drive transmissions if I am not mistaken; you should ask someone knowledgeable about them.

Peter

[Rawleigh]

I'm still running an original tank in Virginia, but we can still find non-ethanol fuel here. I'm running on borrowed time though.

[TakinOnWater]

Thanks for your thoughts fellas.

The boat is an 83 and I don't know why the mechanic wouldnt have insisted on doing the tank when they replaced the engines. When I spoke to the mech he said he had no comment on the tanks, one way or the other. Which doesnt bode very well for me.

How much should I expect to spend on the fuel tank job? And what should I expect to get for it if I decide to sell with mechanically sound boat and solid hull?

After discussing this with the owner (we're friends and hes well offf monetarily) he said he would consider letting me have it for 10k in order to make room in the budget for tank replacement. Im just not sure I even want to get into all that though.

Are the Bertram tanks more susceptible to degradation/rot than other makes/manufacturers? I had a few old center consoles with original tanks that saw lots of ethanol and never had a problem. Were they ticking time bombs too, and I got lucky?

Im already scanning for sale ads for center consoles, with my tail between my legs

Thoughts?

[Peter]

First off your post is a little confusing.

Exactly what is the boat you are looking at? “Moppie” in Bertram lore generally means a runabout configuration. Small foredeck over a cuddy and a windshield behind that. Otherwise and open boat in the classic runabout configuration.

“Sport Fish” usually means a boat with an enclosed salon of some sort generally with a fly bridge, but could be a half or full tower.

“Moppie Sport Fish” is a contradiction in terms in Bertram model designation… not to say they didn’t call something that, but in general Bert terms a Sport Fish is one thing, and a Moppie another.


Now a few 26’s were made in the late 70’s. It is a Napier hull design and it replaced the 25 which was a Hunt hull design. Similar in many ways, but the 26 changes several details. A few more 26's were made in the early 80’s as MkII, most of which that I have seen were the open runabout Moppie style. Of these latter some were the only outboard configurations ever offered factory by Bertram, though many 25 and 26’s have later been converted to outboard.

The other versions were I/O’s. And some of the 25’s that pre-dated the 26’s but were a different design, were inboard with V-drives. Straight inboards were rare because the deep v made it problematic to swing a big enough prop unless the engines were waaayyy forward, or the shaft angle was steep. But the deep V hull generally doesn’t like the engines too far forward because it has so much volume aft.


So is this a “straight inboard” or is it a v-drive inboard, or something else entirely?


Next, the 25’s didn’t have great access to the fuel tanks for replacement purposes, but the 26’s for the most part have the tanks covered by a huge removable (with several screws) hatch in the deck.

If the boat you are looking at has a big hatch over the tank, changing it out is not a problem. The biggest expense being the fabrication of the new tank if you do it yourself.

As for the tank itself: The original Bertram tanks were relatively unique in that they were made of fiberglass. These had a reputation of being a lifetime item…. Until ethanol came along.

The original Bertram tanks used a resin that has proven to be susceptible to degradation from the ethanol with disastrous consequences for engines. BUT meanwhile the petroleum industry was beginning to use fiberglass for in-ground tanks at fuel stations and the like. The later resins are A.O.K. with ethanol and so late model Berts don’t suffer the same fate as the early ones…. But since no one was particularly concerned with ethanol in the fuel as the new resins came into common use, including in use for Bertram tanks, as far as I know no one can definitively tell you if an ‘80’s something tank is a “good one” or a “bad one.” And furthermore, at least in the early years a lot of the tank work was sub-contracted out. Was this still the practice in the 80’s? I have no idea, but it makes the question of whether or not any particular tank from that time is OK for E-10 even less definitive.

Since very few other boats, particularly boats of the pre-90’s vintage, have fiberglass tanks, they don’t have the problem. Most center consoles would have plastic or aluminum tanks… so no issues…. Except that most aluminum tanks do have a limited, though long, service life. Yep. Eventually they all leak!

To answer your question as best I can about the tank project cost; go have a look at the boat and see if there is a big removable hatch over the tank area. If there is, a new tank put in by yourself in your back yard (not hard to do) is about a 2G project. Having a yard do it for you soup-to-nuts shouldn’t exceed 4G’s. BUT if there is no hatch over the tank and so replacement would require cutting out the deck, then it is a very different story.

At 10grand for the boat with a solid hull and good engines and running gear it is a deal in my mind….. unless what you REALLY WANT is a center consol. In that case your friend could give you the boat for free and you would still never be happy with it. If that is the case have your friend mosey over to the link I put up to the 25 board and offer it for sale there. He is more likely to find his kind of buyer there than anywhere else I can think of.

[Peter]

Have a look at this:

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/6888

Peter

[Buju]

Good info Peter...

I thought it was generally accepted that Bertram quit using the old polyester resin in '72... and started w/ the ethanol resistant resin in '73...

Not true?

[Peter]

I don't truly know, but '73 seems too early for the change over. If anyone actually knows a hard and firm date I'd sure like to hear from them.

My boat is a '77 26 FBSF and the tank was beginning to blister inside when I changed it out. Was that from ethanol? I honesly do not know because as far as I thought I hadn't put any E-10 into the tank prior to that time.... however I found out later that our local fuel was suppplied wholesale out of New York, and they did have the corn sqeezin's in the gas. So maybe I had used E-10 and didn't know it.

I suppose if one were a gambler they could hope that the '83 tanks were OK... and they might be.... but the risk of very expensive engine damage is great if they are not. And no one will want to buy the boat until they are changed anyway.

Lastly, in the '26's I have seen it is a pretty easy job because of that big hatch makes for good access, so why not just do it and be done with it?

Peter

[JohnCranston]

Eddie swapped his fiberglass tank for a bigger aluminum one..no glass work required thanks to the removable hatch. I know his tank was coming apart before the swap and his 26 is a mid 80's model, but after I talk with him, I'll confirm it.

[JohnCranston]

She's a 1984.

[jprobins]

Good info Peter...

I thought it was generally accepted that Bertram quit using the old polyester resin in '72... and started w/ the ethanol resistant resin in '73...

Not true?

My '83 26 Mk II had a fiberglass tank ruined by ethanol. So, there were still usining them then.

[jprobins]

We love our 26. Huge cockpit. Fast, solid, rides great, not too wet. I owned center consoles previously, but I was always a big open cockpit guy. The research I did on the 26 before buying makes me comfortable that a 26 outboard in good shape, well kept is re-salable at a price in the $40K-$70K range. There seems to be a pretty good discount for the i/o version and even more of a discount for the occasional model with outboards mounted on a bracket. For $10K in the shape you describe, I think you would be reasonably safe. However, if you are a center console guy, why consider the Bert at all? Get what you really love.

[TakinOnWater]

First off your post is a little confusing.

Exactly what is the boat you are looking at? “Moppie” in Bertram lore generally means a runabout configuration. Small foredeck over a cuddy and a windshield behind that. Otherwise and open boat in the classic runabout configuration.

“Sport Fish” usually means a boat with an enclosed salon of some sort generally with a fly bridge, but could be a half or full tower.

“Moppie Sport Fish” is a contradiction in terms in Bertram model designation… not to say they didn’t call something that, but in general Bert terms a Sport Fish is one thing, and a Moppie another..

Alright lets see if I can do a better job, the terms I am using to describe it came from the original owner, who may or may not have even known what he really had, haha.

It looks like the boat you posted in the listing for sale in terms of layout, and engine location. Engine boxes are in the same place except dont come with no backrests, however the helm cockpit area has been reconfigured just a bit diffrrently seating wise, but its still the same if you take the seating out. however there are some differences:

There is no bow rail. There is no swim platform, but it looks like there is a nook/metal piece to hook a swim ladder into, right in the middle. The enclosure is half hard top and half canvas over an aluminum piping/frame with a mini brigde/tuna tower (not sure what you'd call it) with full throttle and steering controls both up top and down below. It is hard top under the bridge, and canvas from there on foward. So if your driving down below there is canvas layed over an aluminum shell above your head for a few ft. It has canvas enclosure on 3 sides, but is not fully enclosed. The top is a bit bigger/longer and covers the boat a bit more further over the back deck, perhaps 3' more coverage. The frame bolts into about where the blue bertram striping ends/goes thin....

The other versions were I/O’s. And some of the 25’s that pre-dated the 26’s but were a different design, were inboard with V-drives. Straight inboards were rare because the deep v made it problematic to swing a big enough prop unless the engines were waaayyy forward, or the shaft angle was steep. But the deep V hull generally doesn’t like the engines too far forward because it has so much volume aft.


So is this a “straight inboard” or is it a v-drive inboard, or something else entirely?.

I spoke to the mechanic and he says they are straight inboards and def not a V drive. Could he be mistaken? He does have extensive hands on knowledge of the boat so I know he isn't just guessing. I hope.

Next, the 25’s didn’t have great access to the fuel tanks for replacement purposes, but the 26’s for the most part have the tanks covered by a huge removable (with several screws) hatch in the deck.

If the boat you are looking at has a big hatch over the tank, changing it out is not a problem. The biggest expense being the fabrication of the new tank if you do it yourself..

I went down and took a look, and it does not look lke there are removable hatches that would allow for the tank to be removed. Only a few small access hatched that are not even close. Maybe I missed something, but it looks like the deck would need to come up for a new tank job.

Sorry I did not reply sooner, but I was not notified of any responses, and im not sure why.

So does this mean that it is a moppie flybridge? haha

[TakinOnWater]

We love our 26. Huge cockpit. Fast, solid, rides great, not too wet. I owned center consoles previously, but I was always a big open cockpit guy. The research I did on the 26 before buying makes me comfortable that a 26 outboard in good shape, well kept is re-salable at a price in the $40K-$70K range. There seems to be a pretty good discount for the i/o version and even more of a discount for the occasional model with outboards mounted on a bracket. For $10K in the shape you describe, I think you would be reasonably safe. However, if you are a center console guy, why consider the Bert at all? Get what you really love.

Why consider the Bert?? Because I love the thing. Its fast, and its like fishing off a cement patio when we are out there. I have a friend who weighs 400lbs and he can walk to the corner of the boat and it barely sways or lurch's, haha. Lots of room. etc etc, the list goes on and on. Not to mention how do I know I wont like something else more unless I try it??

My hang ups stem from the fact that I have never owned anything besides cc outbord type boats, and am inexpereinced with Inboards in general. I am also unfamiliar with older used classic hulls and how big of a market there is for them. For example with any center console I have had, it seemed there ws always a quick buyer for the boat if you priced it reasonably and kept the boat clean. Maybe I have been lucky but the outboards I have had were all low maintenance, easy to winterize, and I liked that it was right there if you needed to get at it. In addition to an unfamiliar engine configuration and set up, there are 2 of them, so there is twice the amount of stuff to go wrong. I dunno I could probably think of some more stuff but those are the big ones. I see beauty and a great deal in this boat, but when I scan the online classifieds there seems to be hundreds of boats like the one I am looking at....

You know what im talking about:

FS 198x or 197x 28' bla bla bla sportfish cruiser with too much to list, everything replaced in the last xx years, call to inquire, this boat is mint, TOO MUCH TO LIST! BOAT IS TURN KEY!!! NO REASONABLE OFFER REFUSED.... BOAT IS A FISHING MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then when you go to look at it its like, where do I even start with this thing? All you really have is the sellers word and some old receipts. It could be a cherry or a nightmare. haha....

The boat I am looking at is also cosmetically nowhere near as clean as the boat in that listing. The inside was repainted 2 yrs ago and may be as nice, and the exposed wood has all been painted white, so it looks more modern, however the outside needs a re-paint to be visually up to par and is heavily fished/worn. Im afraid if I do not find just the right buyer it will be hard to sell.

I see a new "WTB center console 10-20k ad on craigslist or THT every week.

Ya know?

I just don't want to be stuck with it if things change and I have to get out. In this economy nobody is buying anything it seems. If I lost my job, id need to get out fast!

But nothing ventured nothing gained right?

[TakinOnWater]

My '83 26 Mk II had a fiberglass tank ruined by ethanol. So, there were still usining them then.

Did you redo the tank and keep it? If so how much did it run ya?

[TakinOnWater]

Have a look at this:

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/6888

Peter

Do you think this guy is really going to get anything near wht he is asking for this boat? I think he's dreaming.