Hull numbers

Bobkat · Post by **Bobkat** » Aug 1st, '10, 14:37

I have read several explanations of hull numbers but found two numbers in the original owners paperwork
315-1198
315-122-1198
I have a flybridge and believe it was build around 1972
From these numbers can you confirm.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Aug 1st, '10, 22:10

312 designates the open model (Moppie)
313 = hardtop model
314 = sport fish model
315 = fly bridge cruiser
316 = Bahia Mar model
317 = express model

Looks like you have Fly Bridge built in 1998. Normally the model is the last three sets of numbers. Since yours was built before 72 it is not stamped into the hull on the transom so the sequence is probably different.

Bobkat · Post by **Bobkat** » Aug 2nd, '10, 07:00

Thank you Tony. I could not find any numbers stamped on the boat. The numbers I posted were typed in the owners manual. The technical data sheet listed 315-1198. Another sheet, titled Data sheet, listed 215-122-1198. This sheet was partially filed in and allowed the first owner to write in his information.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Aug 2nd, '10, 15:02

Tony Meola wrote:312 designates the open model (Moppie)
313 = hardtop model
314 = sport fish model
315 = fly bridge cruiser
316 = Bahia Mar model
317 = express model

Looks like you have Fly Bridge built in 1998. Normally the model is the last three sets of numbers. Since yours was built before 72 it is not stamped into the hull on the transom so the sequence is probably different.

I gotta think the "1198" is the hull number. 31s weren't built in 1998. I have hull 1003 and it is a 1970

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Aug 2nd, '10, 15:08

my boat is built april 11 1973 and is 1301. we sold a fbc , serial number 1298 built dec. 1972 i take it your was built mid 1972 .check tank sticker on rear top next to pick up plate

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Aug 2nd, '10, 16:37

The hull numbers started with 101. The Safe Boating Act that required a uniform national boat hull numbering system went into effect in November, 1972. Subtract 101 from your hull number and that's the sequence number of your boat. Prior to Nov. 1972 the Bertram hull # had no relation to the date built....you have to look at the tag glassed into the top of the fuel tank to find that date the tank was made, which was usually about the time the boat was made.....prior to the 1972 model year the tank was 170 gallons, 72 and thereafter it was 222 usuable, about 230 total.

UV

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Aug 2nd, '10, 20:33

Bertramp wrote

I gotta think the "1198" is the hull number. 31s weren't built in 1998. I have hull 1003 and it is a 1970.

Good catch. It was late and I just got back from the boat. What the heck was I thinking.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Aug 2nd, '10, 21:39

what ever you are smoking send some my way!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Aug 2nd, '10, 21:48

Matt

Wish it was drugs.

I even told him his was built before 72 since there were no hull numbers stamped in the transom.

Getting old. Mind is going.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Aug 3rd, '10, 14:36

I did ask before and will state again ... I think we should put our hull numbers in our "footer profile" (signature) for posts ... it would offer a world of reference and would take any one of us about a minute to do.

Craig G · Post by **Craig G** » Oct 6th, '10, 22:18

My FL registration number does not conform to the numbering system used by the factory. I did find the number 664 written inside my port engine box when I re-did the soundproofing. It was written on the bare fiberglass with a magic marker. Is there really such thing as a tank sticker? I thought that was a Corvette only thing. I'll have to look for that or the tag on top of fuel tank that is mentioned. Does 664 sound reasonable for a 1968 Bahia Mar? I've looked in all the usual places, and that is all I have come up with.

Thanks.....Craig

Craig G · Post by **Craig G** » Oct 6th, '10, 22:46

Hi Mat, I'm guessing you #854 is a 1969 or 70 model? I'm trying to figure out if the #664 I found inside my port engine box is the hull number for my 1968 Bahia Mar. Are there any other 1968 hulls out there that might bracket that number? Thanks....Craig

luis · Post by **luis** » Oct 7th, '10, 03:19

Well the numbers I have are 313-897 so should be a Hard Top with hull number 897 however, on the original papers come stated as Express Cruiser.
I really dont care too much about that. Its from 1969 , its a Bertram and as a curiosity even the back side of the mirror on wc as stated April 1969.
Regards

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Oct 7th, '10, 08:00

craig
yes mine is a 69 fbc my tag was glassed to the transome, i didnt have a tank sticker though

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 8th, '10, 08:33

hey guys ... thanks for jumping on this again. It's a GREAT reference for all of us. To me it's interesting to know exactly what hull number went fro model yr to model yr and changes that may have been made at a specific hull #. When we look back and ask ... "oh yeah, didn't so and so own that boat a few yrs ago"? .... problem solved. Let's get more folks on the band wagon !!

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 8th, '10, 08:35

I have looked and cant find anywhere.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 8th, '10, 08:43

Brew ... on my Bahia, it's on inside of transom just under the deck.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 8th, '10, 12:43

Which side? I looked all morning. Looked under vberth, fuel tank, bulkheads, Im mad now. Its a 66

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 8th, '10, 18:48

Brew

Pick up the rear hatch. Its on the transom.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 8th, '10, 19:01

not there.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 8th, '10, 19:21

Tony .... What's your hull # ?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 8th, '10, 21:00

Brew- Over the years I have found 3 different numbers in my boat, 31-381, 31-382 and 31-384. In no instance did I find them as result of searching for the number. Because my bow lites stopped working, I removed the starboard header in the bunks to look for a broken wire and found a magic markered number written on the fiberglass behind it. In another instance, after many years we removed the icebox to insert a Norcold refrigerator. When we removed the formica panel on the door, we found another hand written number written behind it. I think the third number was scrawled on the inside formica panel under the port V-berth. From what I could find out, the early models were pre-codes and plates. According to Patrick the Cuban assembly line guys were often illiterate. They usually made a few of the same model boats at the same time, so it was not uncommon to have a few numbers on your boat (if you could ever find them) as they grabbed whatever piece they needed with no concern about matching numbers. Someday, somewhere you'll be taking something apart and run into your hull number. Walter

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Oct 10th, '10, 14:16

Guy's
UV is correct about the numbering system on the 31's. Federal Boating act November1972 made it manditory for hull ID numbers to be stamped into or on a fixed plate on the starboard outer transom area. Before 1972 it was where ever the manufacturer felt like putting it.

The very early 31's(1961-1966)have a paper tag glassed into the hull up high, under the port v- berth support forward. The date of hull lay-up is written in magic marker (Mine is # 186 12-13-1961 an Express). Later they started putting the tag on the inside of the transom on the centerline, just below the teak deck support that runs the width of the cockpit and on the top of the fuel tank capacity plate. You almost have to look at it upside down, a lot of the tags have been painted over with bilge paint by prevoius owners.

Like Walter said I have seen numbers written in pencil on various places throughout the boat, on back side of plywood ceiling panels, back of trim panels in head, under engine box insulation and on the back of the anchor locker access door.

As a rule of thumb the numbers run about the same as the year of manufacture, Bertram built about 85 to 100 boats a year until they stopped making the 31 in 1985.

The first year on manufacture was 1961 and they reportedly made 1850 31's of all different models which were sold all over the world. My experience surveying 31's the Sport Fish Model was the most popular, followed by the Fly Bridge Cruiser, then the Bahia Mar, then the Express. The sedan and the open Moppies were the least built models.

So considering the small about of 31's built, there are around 1500 boats still around, anyone who owns a 31 should feel pretty fortunate that they can say that they own one. After 49 years the boat has more than likely been re-powered atleast 3 times, rebuilt atleast once, and costs 8 times more than it did when it was built new.

I've surveyed over 35 31's and have been on atleast 40 more and can say that for is size it's the best all round boat on the market and there are very few boats that can withstand the abuse that a 31 can take and still get you home in on piece.

If anyone needs any info on hull numbers give me a call 561-310-7179, I be happy to help, I'm having another operation on my knee on Thursday and will be around the house for 3-4 weeks of recouperation.

Pete

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 10th, '10, 21:30

Bertramp

I have a 1975 FBC. Hull # BERG1467-315

Brew

Maybe someone painted over it? When I painted the bilge during the repower, I left that spot clear so it can be seen.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 11th, '10, 09:01

My '69 FBC is # 315-881. The numbers are hand-written in various places in what looks like magic marker, and glassed into the transom where Pete said. It also says Whittaker Co. It was covered by some paint and lots of grime when I got the boat.

My boat came from NY, and the registration had the CG doc. number--the CG number was burned into the deck supports--which I have replaced. It titled in Md using that number. I never CG documented the boat.

What numbers are on your titles if your boat is pre-1972?

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 11th, '10, 12:26

so Tony ....
why not drop:
1975 FBC hull# 315-1467
into your signature ?

capy · Post by **capy** » Oct 11th, '10, 13:59

On the old board, when I had more time to post and less stress in my life.....

I posted about how I called the factory before it was foreign owned, and had nice discussion with a production manager who told me that the richard bertram brokerage had all of the production records.

I called over there in novemebr 93, and spoke with a guy who used to work in the factory in the 60's, (can't remember his name)told him my sptfsh was a 1961, hull number 535 (as glassed in the vee berth).

He said hold on a second.... went to a file cabinet and pulled a folder that had all kinds of info about my boat. He told me my boat was a special little boat and was unique among the unique, asked if I wanted a copy of this one sheet, but I stupidly told him don't bother.... I'll just take notes;

My hull left the mold and went to the rigging dept on 5/10/61
My hull was the 34th hull sold.
It was sold to a man in Mattapoisett MA, for $18,750 with chrysler 413B engines and borg warner 71C drives.(I was the second owner)
It wast the first in a run of 10 hulls where they put extra glass in the flybridge structure to make it more stiff, whereby it was determined to be not cost effective.(EXample:my overhang is solid glass, more tabbing between molded components)

Lastly, hull number 1 was the property of Mr Bertram.

I wished I had asked for a copy now.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 11th, '10, 14:36

Capy...The plot thickens... I have an old (blue hulled) Sportsfisherman who's NYState registration claims is a 1966. I had serious doubts about that so I called Bertram (quite a few years ago) and gave them the numbers I had-31-381, 31-382, and 31-384. Back then, they told me that based on those numbers, the boat was probably somewhere more like 62-64. If yours with a higher number (535) is a 61, mine might be even older than I think it is. It came with the Chrysler 413's and Velvet Drives. Mine also has the 2-piece engine boxes.

capy · Post by **capy** » Oct 11th, '10, 14:52

walterk wrote:Capy...The plot thickens... I have an old (blue hulled) Sportsfisherman who's NYState registration claims is a 1966. I had serious doubts about that so I called Bertram (quite a few years ago) and gave them the numbers I had-31-381, 31-382, and 31-384. Back then, they told me that based on those numbers, the boat was probably somewhere more like 62-64. If yours with a higher number (535) is a 61, mine might be even older than I think it is. It came with the Chrysler 413's and Velvet Drives. Mine also has the 2-piece engine boxes.

Walter,

That guy at Richard Bertram said that in early 1961 the First number was the month (may) and the next 2 digits was the hull number. He said no one envisioned manufacturing more than 99 boats the first year.

But, demand was otherwise and they started selling more than they ever imagined and had to change the numbering system by august of that year.

The 413B was the standard power plant until 65 or so....4-53 detroits being offered in 64 as an option.

I don't think 6v53 like I have, were offered from the factory.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 11th, '10, 15:15

my title actually had the NY registration numbers, but I knew the history of the boat. I am third owner and bought from someone that I know. He bought from someone he knows.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 11th, '10, 18:44

Still looking. Scraped paint transom, pulled Vberth apart. Nothing yet.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 11th, '10, 21:36

Brew

Rebuild the boat,you will find them.

Bertramp. Really never gave much thought to posting the numbers. I will take a look to see were to stick them in.

jrhaszard · Post by **jrhaszard** » Oct 11th, '10, 21:56

The number on my Documents and survey are as follows: Hull BERG 1847 M 80F ; Official Number is 631704 supposedly posted below water tank.This is supposed to be a 1980 FBC.Any ideas anyone ?

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Oct 11th, '10, 22:33

I called Bertram oh last year and they put me to some guy who said "well the records are somewhere in the back warehouse and are on microfish" i said oh ok, well can you get them.. "well let me take your number i will get back there when i have time" needless to say, never got a call back, but since my boat came from Massachusetts they created there own BIN number. They did not recognize the original number because it wasnt enough digits. Which was a pain cause the previous owner didnt put it in the boat like he was supose to, and the state of texas requires a stencle of your BIN or a visual inspectin by the game warden. I will give allied a call when i get a chance.
Bertramp might know more history on my boat than I do, i stole it out from under him :)

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 12th, '10, 08:08

Cool .... That was COLD !!
All I know is what was on the survey .... which you have.

:-D

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Oct 12th, '10, 12:48

Well mine was bought as a 1973 model FBC. I never was able to find any hull numbers back in 1987 until I called Richard Kidd @ Bertram and then looked down on the inside of transom and find a date of 10-23-67 glassed in and then find the number #605 on the inside of the pilaster panel in which Richard Kidd told me that my hull was supposely the 105th hull of the FBC made. So that means I'm a 1967 model unless he was wrong.

DQ

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 12th, '10, 21:06

DQ

A 73 would of had the numbers etched into the transome. If the transome is clean then you are ealier than a 72.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Oct 12th, '10, 21:12

Sorry i couldnt resist yes i do and thank you for that. you ever make it to texas and i ever get her going again we will go fishing.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 12th, '10, 21:51

"Cool" .....
glad we reaquainted on here ....it's all good
Havent been inTexas in many yrs, although there are a few friends in Austin I would like to see too, but funny enough ... they are canoers !

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Oct 12th, '10, 22:12

Paul, I told you having a child was like dropping a 60,000 anchor overboard...but sometimes we need to be at anchor and it's real good too.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 13th, '10, 06:53

Capt. DQ wrote:Well mine was bought as a 1973 model FBC. I never was able to find any hull numbers back in 1987 until I called Richard Kidd @ Bertram and then looked down on the inside of transom and find a date of 10-23-67 glassed in and then find the number #605 on the inside of the pilaster panel in which Richard Kidd told me that my hull was supposely the 105th hull of the FBC made. So that means I'm a 1967 model unless he was wrong.

DQ

My guess, judging from the other info that we have, is that in 1967 , they actually made hull #607 ... which you have. Built in 1967 and a 1973 model ..... hard to believe it sat in the factory for 6 years.

I think earlier, as in Capy's case (1961) ... they were putting the model in the hull number and that his "535" is actually hull #35.

That matches what Richard Kidd was saying and kinda makes sense.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 13th, '10, 09:09

The problem with that is that both Capy and I have Sportsfisherman models.
His is marked 535 while mine is marked 381, so the first digit being the model number doesn't hold up. If 535 was made in 1961, when was 381 made? The numbers saga goes on....

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 13th, '10, 09:44

well i can conclude two definite answers to the puzzle . first of all the idea that the early model bertrams had a thicker lay up -----not true and i have proof . jrhaszard your boat has a M after the serial number .that M stands for military standard in your case and the sedan we have in the yard they were virginia state police but bertrams made a few for the feds with that M also. the M series boats have a thicker transum although they were build from the late seventies up. your number 1847 is correct for a 1980.my comparisons on layup are from two vintage 1967. there is absolutely no doubt my 1973 has a much thicker forward deck then the two 1967 vintage i have seen apart and mine it is oem. so we can conclude there are many inconsistencies on layup thickness at the bertram factory ,maybe just maybe because my boat was a diesel special order sold to a person in ma. by a dealer then built at factory it may be differant then a non spec. boat . i know at everglades they built a 1 foot taller center console for a real tall dude . i imagine the factory will do most anything for a sale .

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 13th, '10, 09:53

If you figure that they made just under 2000 hulls from 1961 through 1983 and that 1961 (and probably 1983) were possibly/probably not full production years, they made approximately 100 a year. Based on that, I still believe (no proof) that Capy's "535" is actually hull #35 and from 1961 and Walter's "381/383" is hull #81 or #83 and as Bertram stated 62 or 63ish. My 1970 is hull #1003. Still kinda holds together.

capy · Post by **capy** » Oct 13th, '10, 09:58

AndreF wrote:Paul, I told you having a child was like dropping a 60,000 anchor overboard...but sometimes we need to be at anchor and it's real good too.

Yup......but when it's time to haul it up.....I'll have so much growth from sitting still, that I'll never be the same again.

On the plus side I'm in better shape now than I have been in years...185lbs.

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Oct 13th, '10, 11:43

Bertramp

My guess, judging from the other info that we have, is that in 1967 , they actually made hull #607 ... which you have. Built in 1967 and a 1973 model ..... hard to believe it sat in the factory for 6 years

Let me restate what I was saying Bertramp, when I purchase my used B31 in 1986, it was sold to me as a 1973 model. Come to find out after we could not find any hull numbers on the rear transom. I called Bertram and talked to Richard Kidd in 1987, and at that time, he was suppose to be the guru of knowledge on the B31's with all the info. of how things were done. So he informed me to look on the inside of the transom were I would see a glassed in date or number, it was a date. So by that date it stated we had a 67 model and not a 73 model FBC, no matter it was a B31 and that is what I wanted. Now in 2006 I had found the #605 on inside panel of the outside pilaster cover and had call Richard Kidd again to ask about him about that number and he stated to me that it meant it was the 105th hull of the FBC and was made in 1967. The boat did not sit at the Bertram factory for that length of time.

Bob,

well i can conclude two definite answers to the puzzle . first of all the idea that the early model bertrams had a thicker lay up -----not true and i have proof .

Now maybe that may be true, and Capt Patrick might chime in but from what I was told by Richard Kidd @ Bertram, was all the 60's model hulls were a heavier lay up in glass. So I can only state what I was told by RK @ Bertram.

DQ

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Oct 13th, '10, 14:29

Walt
Here's another clue. Mine is 31-327 as glassed into the port vee berth. Additionally in the same place is the date 3-18-63.
Kind of removes all doubt, huh?

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 13th, '10, 14:31

DQ .... #605 made in 1967 would kinda make sense, no ??

I think the 1973 date may be the questionable data.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Oct 13th, '10, 14:36

alright, you guys are making me look at mine and put them up, and see what you come up with, mine are marked in two spots inside transom, top and lower and in the middle.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Oct 13th, '10, 15:25

heres my #s guys, what do i have 316 757

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