New member - New boat

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 14th, '10, 13:54

I am a new member, former 25' owner, that boat sold today. Still addicted, I am traveling to Pensacola this weekend to make a deal on a 31 FBC, and wanted to see if anyone here knew the boat. It is at Patti's boatyard, 1979 FBC, Cummins 504's, its been on yachtworld for a while now. Port engine runs, starboard does not. The boat has no name, and appears to be in very good condition, all stock. If anyone knows anything about the condition of this boat, I would appreciate the comments.
I look forward to being a regularly contributing member from Galveston Bay.

Rip

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Apr 14th, '10, 14:37

Welcome aboard, Rip; I think you'll find this crowd to be a real hospitable group. Don't know anything about the boat that you've got your sights on, but I'm told those 504s are dinosaurs (slow, heavy, loud, and tough to find parts for). I'm sure you have already done the mental gymnastics on a future re-power of some sort. Best of success with your search.

Tommy

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Apr 14th, '10, 15:13

Yeah, Tommy, but it never had gas in it's tank either.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 14th, '10, 15:57

Welcome Rip,
Don't know about the boat...but best of luck with it.
Carl

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Apr 14th, '10, 16:15

Saw that ad.
If your planning on repowering, good.
If your planning on fixing up the 504's..Run Forrest Run......

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 14th, '10, 16:45

Welcome aboard! The 504's are your bargaining point as in my humble opinion, they're the reason the boat has not sold. If you can get the price low enough so it's within your budget for you to put in a set of B series Cummins, go for it. If not, keep shopping, I'm sure you'll find one that meets your needs and budget. Walter

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 14th, '10, 17:00

Great replies and confims what I expect from this boat. It will come very inexpensive, and makes it the 31 I can afford. The one 504 has about 300 hrs. on a reputable rebuild, so my plan is to idle around the lake for the summer on one, and bank for the fall repower. But its a later model, all kinds of expensive electronics and expensive liferaft, etc, so the deal is good. Here are some numbers I put together that the group may be interested in from the boats on the market. (Asking prices).

67 boats(31's) Average asking $ - 90,304

26 are gas - Average asking $ - 51,802

41 are diesel - Average asking $ - 114,707

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Apr 14th, '10, 18:16

Best of luckm i hope you make it work, you'kk kove the 31

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 14th, '10, 18:20

I believe that is the boat I posted the listing from Boat's & Harbor a few days back? I believe it said they had spare 504s?

WARNING>>>>"if that boat was named the "Capt AL"....it sank in Port Arthur, TX during IKE. "Capt AL" had 504's with Borg Warner gears. Oyster white boat with a dark blue bottom. Aluminum radar arch. The boat also had a swim ladder mounted on the transom.

Good luck.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 14th, '10, 18:26

You'll have a helluva time running that boat on one engine. Are you serious? Also, expensive things cost a lot to maintain. Your raft...last inspected? Cost of an annual inspection? The numbers you have shown for b-31's, both gas and diesel are high from what I can tell. Northeast numbers are well below those.

neil · Post by **neil** » Apr 14th, '10, 20:05

listen to what walter said

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 14th, '10, 20:09

Also follow up on Scot's comments.

If the boat has the original rudders, you are going to have a hard time tooling around on one engine.

She sounds like a repower candidate with a pair of Cummins Recon's like Walter said.

If she was sunk, forget it unless you plan on complete gutting.

fishlook · Post by **fishlook** » Apr 14th, '10, 20:15

Forrest -

You're on the right track......

Here are the reported sales from all Brokers (Yachtworld).

31' Bertram DIESEL Reported Sales History From April 2009 to present.

15 Boats reported sold. taking the one in portugal and two in spain out. so 12 reported sales during above period.

High $150,000.00 in September of 2009, a boat named "ROWDY" in Alabama.

Low $34,000.00 in November 2009, a boat named "Yellow Fin" in NY.

Straight Average $76,000.00

5 of the boats sold below the average number. All of the boats were reported to be in operational condition.

and the gassers.........

31' Bertram GAS reported Sales from April 2009 to present.

14 reported sales. eliminating the 1 in mexico, so 13 reported sales in US.

High $45,000.00, the "Miss Patsy", in Florida, in May 2009.

Low $11,000.00, the "NO Limit", in NY, in July of 2009.

Average is $28,830.00.

5 gas boats sold below the average.

So, let's compare to your figures:

31 Bertrams

Average Asking Price

GAS $51,802

Average Sales Price

GAS $28,830

Average Asking Price
Diesel $114,000

Average Sales Price
Diesel $76,000

I bought a gas boat at the average price in November of 2009. I am working my ass off to keep my budget under control, doing as much myself as I can. With "rebuilt" diesels and new paint, i'm going to end up with a really nice boat and be sitting at the average diesel sales price for my total investment.

Jay Jones
Fox Yacht Sales
Port Aransas, Texas
jay@foxyachtsales.com
361-533-0990

I reserve the right to amend the above numbers as i am currently 3/4 of the way into a nice bottle of Carlos Basso -DOS FINCAS- 2008 Malbec, Mendoza - Argentina..........

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 14th, '10, 22:14

A good market evaluation. My numbers were straight from Yachtworld listings.
Will the 31 not steer well at under 5 knots on one engine power? Rudders not enough surface area?
This boat is not the Capt. Al.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 14th, '10, 22:32

Unless the boat had the rudders changed to the deeper designed "Captain Patrick" version (Highly unlikely), it will go where it wants to go and you will spend most of your time fighting the wheel. Docking into a slip will border on the impossible. I have limped in on one engine a few times over the years and have always had to radio ahead for a pull alongside dock area to be made ready for my arrival.

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 14th, '10, 22:53

Walter, great advice. This is the kind of information I need to negotiate with. My experience with boats this size have been I/O, and they obviously had the advantage of directional propulsion. The rudders appear stock. Equipment value? It just has a lot. Radios, Radar, GPS, full canvas, trim tabs, afforementioned liferaft, fishing equpment.....appears to have been fished offshore. I will hopefully find out more history on this weekend's visit.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Apr 15th, '10, 06:05

Forrest-

Port engine runs then it'll turn circles to starboard with the stock rudders--that's it. Hard over you may get it to go straight for a little while. Whether you buy this boat, or any other B31, one of your first moves should be to get Capt. Pat's rudders. Then you can steer all you want at idle, and she turns great at speed. Good luck.

John

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Apr 15th, '10, 09:12

Ditto what the other Faithful say about the rudders and one engine handling, or lack thereof. You cannot steer the boat on one engine with the stock rudders without dragging a big bucket off the other side. Diesel powered 31s are worse than gas ones due to the increased torque and larger diamter props. There were three sizes of 'stock' rudders that Bertram used on the 31: the "B28" style which is the smallest and can be identified by the square on the rudder stock (shaft) where the tiller arm attaches being under the top bearing; two different "B31" styles, both with the square on top of the bearing, with one of these having more surface area than the other and both being bigger than the tiny 28 style. Patrick's rudders are much larger than any of the stock ones and an absolute essential for a B31. I had the 28 style and one engine operation was impossible, even dragging a dead alligator off the non running side. The difference with Patrick's rudders was stunning. The boat can be handled easily on one engine at any speed, and I actually picked up a knot with them, probably due to less rudder deflection required at speed to hold a line. My 72 FBC with 6BTA 250s will near plane on one engine with Patrick's rudders.

Finally, as to the "extras" such as electronics, etc, remember that the money's in the iron.

UV

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Apr 15th, '10, 10:58

Found a couple in the same price range that are gas but seem usable from day one.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1962- ... E-96003805
and
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1972- ... 9-95725134
Just thought I'd let you know. Might be helpful so you can point out usable boats for the same list price. Sounds like being a diesel doesn't matter in this case.

Capt. Mac Creech · Post by **Capt. Mac Creech** » Apr 15th, '10, 11:19

I looked at th boat and it's in fair shape. Has been on the hill for approx 2 years One engine is blown so the boat would have to be repaired here or trucked to Texas. Did not actually look at electronics but they probably have some age on them. Would have probably bought it if I had a place to put it out of the yard. but by the time I had it moved or repaired while in yard it wouldn,t have worked. Give me acall while you're in town there are about 5 or 6 31's around here.
Mac Creech
850-380-2729

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 15th, '10, 13:53

I can't speak for how a 31 with diesels will run on one engine...but I run on a single 440 Gas motor pretty often when trolling. I have also had the displeasure of docking on a single...pulling in bow first.

If the large wheel is the issue...you could always put a smaller wheel on...your going slow anyway.

For me it's doable...but this is not the way I'd like to buy and use a boat for a season.

Now consider going out in calm weather and then having bad weather come in...your screwed...one engine may be doable going slow in nice weather...add a good breeze...not something I'd choose to do.

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 15th, '10, 14:28

Gentlemen, again I appreciate the perspectives. Mac, I am taking your number on the road with me, and if time permits I will call.......There's a mother-in-law in Mobile visit in there somewhere, so I'm not optimistic about spare time.

Rip

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 15th, '10, 16:47

It's a buyers market...I'd hold out for something you can use. At least if the well dries up you still have a usable boat (AKA sell-able)

If it's the deal of the century, a boat that is in great shape but needs motors and your set with a lead on a pair...maybe. But sounds more like its an okay boat that needs a pair of motors and your not in the position to buy them just yet. Maybe just me...then again its a 31...best boat ever made!

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Apr 15th, '10, 18:30

Forrest, Welcome aboard, keep plugging along, "looking" at as many 31s as possible...When I found mine in CT. I had no doubt it was the "one" I had to have...been a long road four years in and making steady progress..I have a 1966 Bahia Mar, had 318 gas when I bought it, now a pair of cummins 5.9s are power of choice. "IF" I started with a boat that needed less work it may have saved me a year or two...I have no regrets...BH

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Apr 15th, '10, 19:50

Bob 66 is the year!

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Apr 15th, '10, 20:33

66 seems to be a good year......DeNada thinks so

Welcome aboard Forrest

Harry

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Apr 15th, '10, 22:14

Forrest,

Here's a nice one in Pensacola that you may want to look at while you are there:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/Be ... ted-States

This one has rebuilt Cummins, generator, A/C, tuna tower and nice electronics. It would cost you a pile of money to get the other boat into this kind of shape.

I looked at the boat with the 504's about a year and a half ago. She looks nice from the outside and has a lot of potential, but as Uncle Vic says "the value's in the iron" and this one has some very old iron. I took the advise that the faithful offered and bought a boat that had already been refit. I still had a lot of work to do, but I was able to use the boat while working on her.

Good Luck and give us a full report with pictures.

JR

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 15th, '10, 22:49

jr you are so right lets say this ; in the sales world of boats a 31 with 504 cummins would be consider as the price as a gasser .old iron like that is no advantage in a sale because the new owner would have to replace both if one goes down due to the equation of putting good money into bad.ends up ahead buy replacing both with cummins 6bta.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 16th, '10, 08:48

this is one area where 25s have it over 31s.....running on one engine. even with inboards and the micro rudders its quite doable in a 25.

good luck with your search but consider docking a 31 on one engine is gonna get old fast if its anymore than pulling up abeam to a bulkhead or floating dock.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Apr 16th, '10, 08:56

Randall -- if you get a minute, can you send me pics of your 25? My email is Tannulli@yahoo.com. I just picked up a 1966 25 and am looking for ideas.

The boat currently has straight six i/o in her, but is going to need repowering. I'm toying with the idea of outboards on a bracket for the repower, however I have heard great things about yours being powered by inboards/v drives.

From what I hear, the boat I now own was originally a "Hardtop" but several owners that top was cut off and replaced by a bimini.

Thanks Randall.

Tom

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 16th, '10, 10:49

ONE straight six I/O in a B-25?

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Apr 16th, '10, 11:43

Walter, sorry -- two straight six i/o -- I think they are 180hp. They are original and haven't been run in 9 years. Married to Mercruiser outdrives that are also old.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Apr 16th, '10, 12:10

Welcome aboard ...

I looked into that boat when I was shopping. It has a "different" layout and is somewhat of a hybrid. There is an aft bulkhead like an FBC, but the head is in the Vberth like a sportfish. What would be the enclosed head in an FBC has additional counter space and storage. It appears to be original, but who knows. No judegment comments as to good or bad, just that it is different than the norm.

While looking, my opinion (and what I KNOW from other boats) was that old diesels are costly in parts and don't usually give the desired performance for their weight. Not having the $$ to opt for some new Cummins or Cats, I went with a gas boat with a fresh tank.

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 16th, '10, 14:43

I kinda like the sound of a head in the V-berth. How much time do you really spend in a head? That should open up more space in the rest of the cabin.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 16th, '10, 14:56

scot wrote:I kinda like the sound of a head in the V-berth. How much time do you really spend in a head? That should open up more space in the rest of the cabin.

Plus if your sleeping in the V-Berth you don't have to walk as far...

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Apr 16th, '10, 15:49

My dad used to tell me, 'son you never shet where you sleep'....or something like that :>)

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 16th, '10, 16:43

very good john i want to say the same but you beat me to it. how about your grand son or any young boys urinating in the v-berth head-----------------half in the head the rest on the v-berth cushons---ugh!! worse yet the intoxicated guy trying to aim for the head while keeping his equalibriam.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Apr 16th, '10, 16:47

bob
thats simple, no kids or drunks on the boat

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 16th, '10, 16:51

ok charlie a sign "women only". but wait until your friends are on the boat ard there are boats all around like bass fishing in the inlet .you just can`t hang "it"over the side!

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Apr 16th, '10, 20:25

A 5 gal bucket works fine

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Apr 17th, '10, 06:24

AndreF wrote:A 5 gal bucket works fine

For many, many years I thought that was the head.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Apr 17th, '10, 07:22

You know what I think.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 18th, '10, 20:26

That is the head, just make sure you don't mistake it for a fish bucket and put the days catch in there.

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 19th, '10, 10:22

Bought the boat, shipping to Kemah in a couple of weeks. Had to dismantle the radar arch, and canvas structures to lower the height for low boy transport. Cut my hand pretty good with a razor knife and spent some time in the Santa Rosa Clinic in Pensacola. I can recommend them.
I am not shy about giving infomation that might help the others here, so the review is, I paid $19k for the boat. taxes to be paid in Tx. Shipping an even 500 miles to Clear Lake, Tx, is $2800. Port 504 ran well on the test, and the description of the demise of the starboard indicates it may have some value.
I'll post a good set of pics, if someone can give quick advice on how.
I was one day without a boat inbetween the two Bertrams. Hopeless.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Apr 19th, '10, 11:23

I'll post a good set of pics, if someone can give quick advice on how

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=3

Forrest · Post by **Forrest** » Apr 19th, '10, 11:48

Thanks Capt. Pat, I will endeavor to spend time posting this evening.

Rip

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Apr 19th, '10, 12:37

Congrats Forrest, proud owner of another Bertram. If the P'cola B31 gang would have known you were in town looking, we could have helped you out, other than the mishap of the razor knife. Have a safe trip back to Texas.

DQ

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Apr 20th, '10, 09:48

Andre,
Still using the 5 gal. bucket too. Add a plastic bag and some kitty litter and kills all smell. Easy to empty as well.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 20th, '10, 21:21

5 gallon bucket out of the question .i guess you guys are assuming men only. there is no way in hell a women who wears matching panties and bra even to work in the garden is going to use a 5 galon bucket!! besides don`t you feel at least guilty with children playing in the water on shore. sorry guys i would never go along with that thought. this is 2010 time to build a efficent head.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Apr 21st, '10, 07:37

bertram31.com

New member - New boat

New member - New boat

31 in Pensacola

Who is online