Intro and a question

[farside]

Hi there - my names John, just joined the site out of my interest in the classic Bertrams. Family and I reside in Southern California and use our current boat only in the Pacific.

And that's what lead me on my wild web searches for classic boats. Our current craft is a newer Bayliner 210 cuddy (little boat) that we (cough - my wife) initially thought would be using primarily in lakes and on calmer days out on the ocean. Turns out that the hull hasn't ever had fresh water on/under her unless it's coming out of a hose. So, I started the merry hunt for a larger boat that will be used in the ocean only but is capable of year-round usage, has fishy-ness to it yet still good as a family boat. I concentrated on the older Bertrams since I've always liked them and they're known for being very capabale crafts, and was pretty surprised to find such a strong following for them.

So, I've found a few B31 FBCs out here on our coast that I'm interested in, but I have no clue as to even begining to look at boats this size (other than the basics - clean bilge, etc...). What are tell-tale signs of a well looked after B31? What would make a specific craft a good buy? A bad buy? What would make you run away? Are these even good boats for all-around year use in the Pacific? The use of any boat would be family trips for snorkeling, scuba, spear fishing, fishing (casting at anchor, trolling, etc...) and general cruising around when the Admiral gets tired of the kid and I fishing. :wink:

As an example of what I've been looking at, here are the two craft that caught my eye: 1962 Bertram and this 1976 Bertram.

I guess I'm just looking for advice / guidance from the knowledgable folks here. sorry for the long intro! Should I be looking at a smaller hull? Would the constant use make it maintenance heavy? The craft would be slipped, unless I can find a gigantic trailer and dry-store at the marina - so more than likely slipped haha.

My boating experience begins as a child in the Caribbean but only on smaller (26ft and down) craft. As an owner, the little 210 cuddy is first and, as of yet, only craft - so I'm only aware of maintenance costs on a newer, trailered, and significantly smaller craft.

Thanks for everyone's help in advance.

John

[Carl]

Hey John, welcome to the site.

Our 31's come in several flavors from Runabout, Bahia Mar, Express Sportfish and the Classic FBC. All the same hull with different Topsides offering more or less cabin and amenities. Look at a bunch and see what tickles the fancy.

From your pics your into the FBC or Sportfish with the upper helm and cabin.


Things to look for on the boat

- is anyplace that has wood. That would be the floor supports, bulkheads, engine stringers, rudder shelf...if its wood and got wet chances are good it will have dry rot unless already addressed. All items can be taken care of by removing old wood and replacing or upgrading to fiberglass or the like.

- Alum corrosion of the window frames, curved windows crazed are tow other areas to look for.

Aside from that, general condition of the hull, paint and of course the motors.

Motors are a big part of the equation. You'll need to do your homework to see which way you'd opt to go. Gassers are less expensive up front, but with less economy and range then diesel. Resale is also less. Diesels cost more upfront, but in general offer better economy and are safer...no fume boom!

****
If you opt for gas, take note if your tank has been changed. The original tanks where fiberglass and where eaten up by the 10% ethanol fuel mixture. Engines do not like injesting fuel laced with fiberglass resin...ask me how I know.


I'm sure others will chime in with other things to look for.

Need something more specific...just ask.

Carl

[In Memory Walter K]

Where do we start? First and foremost, you will find a Bertram 31 rides the line of being what I call a big little boat. Big enough to bring you back safely under conditions even much bigger boats wouldn't go out in, and small enough to keep your operating and maintenance costs under control (as best as you can with any boat). The boat hull is SOLID glass. Engine accessibility is as good as it gets. Most of the boat is such that if you are handy, you can work on yourself. Between the two boats you're looking at: The older one has the heavier hull as back then they didn't know how much fiberglass was enough, so they erred on the side of more. It is diesel powered, another plus, but that depends a lot on the age, condition and make of the engines. The newer boat is newer so I would hope was in better cosmetic shape but is gas powered. Because of the introduction of Ethanol, it will need a new aluminum tank to replace the original fiberglass one. Do not let anyone tell you it's not necessary.
Look at a lot of boats. Ride a Bertram 31 and you'll feel the difference. Yes, we're prejudiced, but name me another 40+ year old boat that still has market value and legendary performance. Let us know you're doing. I'm sure some of our west coast bretheren will chime in. Walter

[CaptPatrick]

John,

Again welcome aboard!

The very first thing you'll want to do is find a good marine surveyor, and one who's familiar with the B31 and other models. Do not, especially with your limited prior knowledge as an owner, buy any boat that hasn't been professionally surveyed by your contract. Don't let some broker show you a past survey or offer to arrange a surveyor for you. Brokers are like politicians: Only it for themselves. You'd probably have an easier time finding an honest politician than finding an honest brooker...

Having run boats up to 65', I may be a bit jaded in saying that the B31 is a smaller boat. It's also one of the biggest small boats you might ever own.

As far as good all around boats go, you can't get any better. If it's calm enough for you to consider taking the family out on a boat ride, it's loafing weather for the B31. And if you get out and the weather turns ugly, the B31 is capable of bring you home safe and sound. When it's really snooty out, we call it Bertram Weather.

The only single model year to shy away from is 1973 - 74. That was the year of the big oil embargo and since polyester resin is a petrochemical product, resin prices went through the roof. All fiberglass boat builders were cutting major corners, using cheap resins, diluting their resin, and doing everything possible to keep costs under control. As a result, any fiberglass hull, from any manufacturer, laid up between October, 1973 and March, 1974 will likely have delamination and underwater blister issues.

Try to find a boat that has as little to be done to update it as possible. There are plenty out there that have been refitted with new wiring, engines, and other modernizations. Yeah, they cost you more than some clapped out project boat, but you can't, at this time and economy, duplicate those newer refitted boats for less than twice the price of what the sellers are asking. Don't be fooled into thinking that a project boat is a less expensive avenue.

Br,

Patrick

[farside]

Carl, Walter and Patrick - thank you for the welcome. =) I've been reading quite a few posts here today, very helpful site (no work getting done though hah).

For the engines, I'm almost sure I'll be going diesel engines. If anything for the longevity and increased range, but also due to the "boom" factor that Carl mentioned. haha. The only reason I would opt for gas engines is if they were in mint condition with low hours and if I were to eventually repower with diesels.

And I'm most definetly going to get anything I seriously consider surveyed (any suggestions for a good surveyor in SoCal?) and have the engines looked over by a mechanic (suggestions?). I just want to do as much research as i can so I don't waste my time (and $) and the brokers time looking at boats that I should never have even put on my check list.

I take it handling and sea-worthiness are not much of an issue for this model of hull out here then? During the summers we typically see 1 to 3 foot seas in the morning and 2 to 4 in the afternoons (ex.: today we're at 2 - 3 ft wind waves at about 8 secs with 2 - 4 ft swells at 10 - pretty nice day actually lol), and in the winters it can vary but typically double the wave heights and shorter periods of summer conditions, plus cold and rain.

From what Walter said, the early models have heavier designs, while the later models have had the hull designed "perfected". Are there any structural differences (added stringers, etc..) between model years or simply quality and quantity of glass? (will definetly avoid the 73s and 74s thanks!)

I noticed the older of the 2 that I linked in my original post has a helm station inside the cabin - is this fairly typical of re-done 31? If so, that is perfect for the cold, windy, and rainy days of winter (lobster season).

Hmm.. wonder how hard it is to add teak on top of the gunwale onto the older one. lol

Thank you all very much for your help. Will definetly keep everyone posted.