Classic Bertram Strut problem

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 10th, '06, 15:48

Patrick,

My port strut is suffering from the "Classic Bertram Strut problem".

My yard wants $5000 to repair, with no hull damage or collision. I am thinking I can do this myself... given all the other stuff I have done.

Could you fill me in on the remaining details of the installation process? In otherwords, I am going to drop the strut, remove the shaft, and the re-installation process is what I am most concerned with.

I am having two other yards quote this, however I am thinking it is doable by me.

Am I insane?

Thanks,

Dug

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:11

Yes Dugggggggggg, you are. But given your semi skilled mechanical apptitude(xcept for pattern making) you may be able to pull it off, and if not the yard will probably only hit you for 10 k to fix what ever you buggered up.
Your frien
thuddddddddddd

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:21

Timmy, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Dug can do it with our help. Tell ya what Dug, send the jet for me & Andre' and we'll do it over a weekend easy.

Timmy, I may have to punish you at the Flophouse in a couple of weeks for being so, well, you know, just so crass - a Southern word, sorta like wearing Wife Beater shirts, you know what I mean??????

yo Fren

UV

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:24

Dug,
Are you refering to a rotten or broken backing board?

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:28

Come on UV cut old thuddd a break. Kathi's making the trip, and she gets real pissed when I work on keeping my nick name.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:37

OK, your apology is accepted. I'll expect pristine behavior tho. "Yes M'am, No suh". Practice it, and say it slowly. "Yessuh Uncle Vic, may I carefully stir you another Clear?" "No M'am Miss Kathi, I've had enough to drink, may I fix you another Mint Julep and adjust your beach umbrella to keep the sun off?" Get the pix, Timmy?

yo Fren,

UV

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:40

You can do it. DO NOT give them 5Gs. With the help from here you can. Patrick will tell you how. Ill help you do it if you want.{has to be on the weekend}

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:42

Vicroy wrote:"No M'am Miss Kathi, I've had enough to drink, may I fix you another Mint Julep and adjust your beach umbrella to keep the sun off?"

I'd bet the ranch you'll never get Tim to utter that phrase. Well at least not the part about having enough to drink! :roll:

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:42

yessuh, mr. Uncle vic, suh. I'zz be gettin it. If they'd let me on the plane with it, I found some UV vodka at the NH tax free joint, not sure I'd drink it, as it's in a plastic bottle, but funny none the less

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:47

Yes Bruce, the mahogany backing "plate" board is cracked and seperating from the hull. It creates a decent vibration in reverse, and if I grab the strut, and yank back and forth, I can move it reasonably easily.

The other side wouldn't do that, even after hitting the tree.

Vic, I am working on the jet, a day at a time. When I get access to it, I will let you know. We will all head down to Tropic star on it, and will discuss when the time comes. Actually my cousin is probably going to get it first, as he is already the pilot of the family. In the meantime, Dad is still playing with my sensibilities, as he neglected to lock the front door of the main plant last night (yup, he was the last out) and Sonitrol called me at 2 am to have me come on back into town to lock it up. Somehow Maintenance was unavailable at the time. They then called me back at 3 am to apologize for calling at 2...

Tim, as for you, be nice, or I will sic Liz on you, and she will singlehandedly drink you under the table. I have seen it happen, and you cannot argue the truth. AFter that is done, I will sit back and watch as she and Kathi work you over with the best public embarrasment around. YOu know your vulnerabilities....

And yes, my patternmaking was off a bit, given the first time shot. But as with all good things, it worked out in the end.

Nope, I ain't to proud to hide behind the girl. In this case, she is a better fighter than me! And I can admit it!

D

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:50

I must have missed Liz keeping up. My bad.
.

5k for that?? new struts and shafts I'm hoping, and props added for good measure

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Oct 10th, '06, 16:53

Dug,

You might as well combine the rudders also while your at it.

R,
DQ

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Oct 10th, '06, 18:54

Dug,
I helped Frank Fimmano do his on his 28B. We did not even remove the strut or the shaft. All I did was scribe a fine line on the hull bottom outlining the strut base. I then supported the strut along with it's shim material. We removed the bolts, got the Harbor freight 4 1/5 grinder going. I allowed Frank to almost all the grinding while I made a marine plywood epoxy lay-up to replace the original wood. I made it about twice as wide as the original. We made-up a very thick West Epoxy with cabosil. and temporary bolted the piece in place. The next day we laid a layer of glass over the the new piece. Let that cure; and 5200 on the bolts and tighten. The job can out almost perfect. No vibration, no leaks, it just took longer then I expected. Frank has got number of very positive comments on the glass work when he had a new fuel tank installed.
It really is easy and not worth anything close to 5K. You do not have to remove the strut or shaft and that makes realigment easy. Oh the only tool I needed and did have was an angle drill to make one hole easier. The strut gets in the was of the drill body. Other then that a grinder, good dust mask and normal tools is all you need. Oh two sets of hands are required for the fitting.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 10th, '06, 20:33

Hi Dug
I have a 66 Express and I modified the Port Strut about a year ago. I am mechanically inclined but this fiberglass stuff is totally new to me but with the information that is available here on bertram31.com my job turned out wonderful. I probably spent $500.00 at the most. I laminated 2 pieces of 5/8" thick plywood together therefore my bolts were not long enough so I had to purchase new "Strut Bolts". They are made of a special alloy called Manganese Bronze......I think. Seems like they were $10.00 each with nuts. I had the props repitched, balanced and put a new cutlass bearing in the strut and now its as smooth as silk. There is enough help posted on this site to help even an amateur do this job. I am sure that you will be fine. I will keep an eye on this thread and will look forward to hearing the success story.
Harry Babb

RussP · Post by **RussP** » Oct 10th, '06, 20:39

Doug,
You can do it no problem, 5K sounds like Rybovich prices.

There will be some good old Bertram mud under the backing and you'll need a hammer & chisel to remove it. If one side has gone soft the other side isn't far behind and the rudder backing is also a close second. I hate to say it but all of the backing under the through hull fittings are proably in need of attention if they haven't allready been replaced. I just replaced them all on our 63 SF and I now have a dry bilge.

I would remove both struts & rudder ports and combine them with one big one ala Capt. Patrick.
I think he spells it out in the tips section. It's no big deal even a hair-lip could do it.

RussP

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Oct 11th, '06, 00:42

Doug, no problem I did mine last winter. I followed Capt. Pat's tip board (no damaged section to cut out or to worry about) the only thing I did different is I ordered oversize 3/4 high pressure fiberglass plates from Mcmaster Carr and beveled the edges at a 45 degree angle and epoxied and laminated it in. No rot no more!

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Oct 11th, '06, 05:44

Dug, tell the "yard" that this is Sucker Free Week and do the job yourself. I like the fiberglass plate that Jimmy G used.

And one more thing --- I'd look for another yard next yr.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 11th, '06, 06:58

You guys are all saying what I am thinking (except for Timmy of course...). I am not worried about the glass work, as I have done a significant amount of that on the boat already. I gutted her (the boat) 8 years ago, and rebuilt everything from the firewall back with 1/2" marine ply all glassed in, installed the decking, and put teak over that. I am not worried about the scope, just the time. But you guys redirected my brain again, and I appreciate it.

I really like the fiberglass sheet idea Jimmy, that is a great idea. And I was all set to start cutting up marine ply!

And Charlie, I like the idea of not dropping the strut. It be good.

This yard can be really good, or they can drive me nuts. I have yet to find perfection in a yard. The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to do it myself. Hell, I painted my house this summer; I sense a trend. You all have had the same reaction I did to the $5000. What the F%&K!!!! You have to be kidding me! When I need the big project done, I might not mind paying. But this is crazy!

Patrick, if you weigh in here, it would be welcome. I appreciate it very much everyone.

Dug

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 11th, '06, 07:48

Dug,

Go for it... I do think however that the solid fiberglass is overkill and not adding much more in the way of strength. The ply wouldn't have to be marine grade either. BC exterior will do just as well. Use only epoxy in any case.

If you're worried about water intrusion at the bolt holes, over drill the holes in the wood and insert 1/2" CPVC pipe sections. See: Sleeving Through Bolt Mounts

Br,

Patrick

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 11th, '06, 10:46

Patrick,

Technical question...

Epoxy meaning West System? Or another variety.

How about either of these options...

http://www.lbifiberglass.com/lbiproduct ... chor346655

or http://www.lbifiberglass.com/lbiproduct ... chor252738

The vinylester resin option...

I am confident in the making of the backing plate, and the install. Just want to make sure that the resins are compatible as best as possible.

Thank you!

Dug

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 11th, '06, 11:04

Dug,

West is just one brand of marine grade epoxy. There are many others including some good generics. Just make sure that which every brand you choose the resin is formulated with 100% solids. Use slow hardner.

Do not use vinylester, epoxy will give you the best bond...

Br,

Patrick

scot · Post by **scot** » Oct 11th, '06, 13:11

I've had great luck on some major projects with Fiberglass Coatings Systems out of Fla. I use their 1:1 laminating epoxy for everything. Add cabosil, milled fibers, etc and you get a great putty. Can't remember the web address but they Google easily. They will ship to your house and they are much, much less $$$ than West Systems.

Good Luck
Scot

ScottD · Post by **ScottD** » Oct 11th, '06, 15:39

There in St. Petersburg, A great company with good products and staff. I use them as well, I'm lucky enough to be able to drive there, but it's good to know they can ship.

ScottD

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 11th, '06, 16:25

Actually "Fiberglass Coatings, Inc."

4301 34th St N # A
St Petersburg, FL 33714
(727) 327-8117
Fiberglass Coatings, Inc.

Br,

Patrick

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 12th, '06, 07:02

Jimmy,

Was your fiberglass sheet red, green or brown?

And Patrick, if I order from the place in Florida, which would be the product?

I just don't want to put the wrong stuff in the boat and have to do it over...

Thanks,
Dug

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 12th, '06, 07:18

Dug,

Either of their two resins will do the the job equally well. Ask them which is the thinner resin and opt for that one. That will allow more grip in the priming step...

Br,

Patrick

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Oct 17th, '06, 22:11

Dug, I just got to watch two yards do mine. Two summers ago, Rick and Jimmy at Southside in Point Pleasant Beach, NJ replaced mine on both sides for about $1,200, if I remember. It looked like a pretty straightforward job. Seems to me like the hardest part would be getting the struts in line. They put in much bigger pads then were there and backed it with a big stainless backer.

I had to do them over with the diesel repower because I needed bigger shafts, struts, etc. Carver's in Point Pleasant put huge pads that went from the aft wall all the way past the struts so that there is on pad for struts and rudders. I got in on it a little and grinding out the old bedding was time consuming, but not that bad. I would think that if you do the one big pad you will need to dedo your rudder shelves and it will make the job way more complicated than just doing the struts. When Southside did just the struts, they had the job done in a week and I was back in the water.

bertram31.com

Classic Bertram Strut problem

Classic Bertram Strut problem

stuff

stuff

stuff

Classic strut problem

Fiberglass Coatings

Who is online