Rare Bertram race boat for sale?

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Jan 13th, '09, 18:32

This was posted over on the 25bertram site.

Is it a Bert??

Thanks

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/983208985.html

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 14th, '09, 09:36

Captbone,

That boat was on Yachtworld 8-10 years ago with about a dozen good photos. Best I could tell it is one of the Bertram 31s that was built by the factory specifically to compete on the ocean racing circuit.

According to the book "Searace" by John Crouse, the 1964 Cowes-Torquay powerboat race on August 15, 1964, was won by the Bertram 31 "Surfrider" powered by twin 400 HP turbo-charged Daytona engines. It was owned/driven by Englishmen Charles and James Gardner who were identified as "friends and customers of Dick Bertram". Dick Bertram finished second in his 31 "Lucky Moppie" (he crossed the finish line first, but passed on the wrong side of the finish boat). Bob Nordskog (publisher of Powerboat Magazine) bought Surfrider and raced it to a 2nd in the '66 Long Beach-San Francisco race and a 3rd in the '67 Catalina Challenge. That's the last reference I could find on Surfrider in Crouse's comprehensive book on the history of offshore powerboat racing.

Probably more information than anyone wanted, but things are slow in my real estate practice so I've got too much time on my hands.

Tommy

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 14th, '09, 11:04

Very interesting. I had no idea Bertram had any racing heritage, and I've been a go fast fan for many, many years.

"In 1964 and driving an identical boat to Dick Bertramâ€™s Lucky Moppie they stormed the finish at Torquay minutes behind Bertram but their mount Surfrider won as the American had shot past on the wrong side of the marker and had to retrace his route and pass the right side! The score so far was England three, rest of the world one."

http://www.britishpowerboatracingclub.c ... istory.htm

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 14th, '09, 12:38

Freebird: That was the origin of the 31 hull!! Blew everyone else away in the early 60's.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 14th, '09, 12:45

Very interesting. I had no idea Bertram had any racing heritage, and I've been a go fast fan for many, many years.

It was powerboat racing and Hunt's hull design that started the Bertram Factory to begin with, (1960 Miami - Nassau race). Also, it's the Hunt hull design that revelolutionized the whole powerboat racing world with the planing deep-v hull.

Every deep-v monohull racer owes it's heritage to the B31...

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 14th, '09, 13:05

Who would of thought it would be one of the greatest fishing boats ever.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 14th, '09, 13:33

CaptPatrick wrote: It was powerboat racing and Hunt's hull design that started the Bertram Factory to begin with, (1960 Miami - Nassau race). Also, it's the Hunt hull design that revelolutionized the whole powerboat racing world with the planing deep-v hull.

Every deep-v monohull racer owes it's heritage to the B31...

Very interesting indeed. I hadn't seen the info supplied on that link. I've never had the pleasure to run a Bertram 31, but I'm sure they're a great boat.

Not to start an argument or cast doubt, but it seems most every manufacturer out there lays some claim to fame rooted in competition. I remember having a discussion with some Sea Craft guys who pointed me to claims of "numerous" world speed records set by that manufacturer in its infancy. Sure enough, the Sea Craft website mentioned these, but nobody could verify them. Those boys got downright mad when I questioned these records. I even called the factory for the heck of it, and even they couldn't verify the records. What can I say?... I'm a stickler for truth in advertising.

Again, out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion (and expanding my mind), does Hunt claim to have built the first planing deep v hull?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 14th, '09, 15:20

Again, out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion (and expanding my mind), does Hunt claim to have built the first planing deep v hull?

Can't say "yes" or "no" to any of Hunt's claims, but it's widely accepted that no deep-v hull ever planed prior to Hunt's lifting strake design...

JK · Post by JK » Jan 14th, '09, 17:15

Someone needs to buy that and send it to Bob Lico and let him work his magic.

--JK

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 14th, '09, 17:50

thank for the compliment jk but i just want to rest my body and finish this windshield/side window job .while we are on the subject of bertram raceboats here is the real deal;i was not in the office but friends were the time was about 1976 and rocky does a big investigation into the best boat manufacturer in the us not sales just quality bertram was the best due to the assembly line high stardards.so we go to bertram there this well dressed guy in the office yelling and carrier on about oil and water impossible to work with.rocky wanted the best no crap balsa core (popular at the time) he hands this guy a check(honest to god)and says heres my signature just fill in the fu-- numbers.as far as i know on the apba circuit this is the first kevlar 49 boat.the guy in the office ----dick bertram!!! we hits jones inlet at 88mph in 6to 8 footers.twin balls to wall 482 cubic inch big blocks.the exhaust manifolds were stelling about 20,000 each side.won the world series with that boat.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 14th, '09, 17:54

i wish i could clear up this picture, dick sign the side of the boat.
"moppie-dick bertram" kevlar 49

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 14th, '09, 17:56

Freebird; don't rely on our biased opinions, look at pretty much any book about the history of power boat racing and they will tell the tale of how Richard Bertram saw a Ray Hunt boat going by like no other boat he had ever seen and blah blah blah the 31 was born and later won the Nassau race in record time. These books make the claim that the Bertram 31 was a major turning point in hull design.

It's something I didn't know myself till I was given some books about powerboat racing and as I flipped thru it I noticed what looked like a 31 and started to read.

Of course here its all common knowledge, as we all know they are special...

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 14th, '09, 18:50

In addition to the B31, I think Ray Hunt designed the Wellcraft V-20 which also won some races. Lots of good hulls out of the race circuit--Formula 233 (Don Arronow) was another former raceboat hull. The 233 spawned alot of nice boats--Albe 24 and Contender to name a couple. Hatts have won races..............nothing comes to mind...

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 14th, '09, 18:57

Hatts have won races..............nothing comes to mind...

Uhhhh... That'd be a Slow Race. Last one across the finish line wins.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jan 14th, '09, 21:36

captbone wrote:This was posted over on the 25bertram site.

Is it a Bert??

Thanks

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/983208985.html

It looks like something I have seen described as a Bertram "Riva".

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jan 14th, '09, 21:40

Freebird wrote:Very interesting. I had no idea Bertram had any racing heritage, and I've been a go fast fan for many, many years.

"In 1964 and driving an identical boat to Dick Bertramâ€™s Lucky Moppie they stormed the finish at Torquay minutes behind Bertram but their mount Surfrider won as the American had shot past on the wrong side of the marker and had to retrace his route and pass the right side! The score so far was England three, rest of the world one."

http://www.britishpowerboatracingclub.c ... istory.htm

The 3rd picture in your link is a Bertram.
Here's another, at the Mid Atlantic Rendezvous, 2 years ago.
She was also there last year as well.

Same boat, earlier in her life????

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 15th, '09, 09:08

bob...rocky who?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '09, 09:47

rocky aonki he is standing in the middle bolster of the boat and that is earl lenier (throttleman) on the deck.i am the peon on the left.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 15th, '09, 10:07

Found a few more pictures for you boys.

"World Champion Bill Wishnick is shown drivng his Bertram in the late 60's. He, along with the rest of the top racers, would soon switch over to the new 36 foot Cigarette race boats that would be coming out of the shops of Don Aronow."

"Dick Bertram rethinking the structural design of his Bertram race boat, while keeping his cool behind those Foster Grant sunglasses."

http://www.historicraceboats.com/gallery.htm

I PROMISE my posting that second photo had nothing to do with the Hatt comment. LOL

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 15th, '09, 10:14

Bob: Did you know Brownie from your race days? I can't remember his last name right now, but he worked with Don Aronow and others. I had the pleasure of having dinner with him three years ago at the Miami boat show. Great guy! you really did live through the great age of boat racing in my opinion!

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 15th, '09, 10:31

bob...february 1974 at an opening of my paintings at a gallery in NYC.....i cant remember if he bought a painting or who the woman is.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '09, 10:41

yep that the boss.i belive she is a manager of one of his restarants.he told me in 1976 he makes 60 million a year so spenting 6 million on boat racing was no big deal (oh to be single again).earl was his permanent throttleman and navigator depented on the region.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '09, 11:50

freebird the structual desigh is perfect other wise he would be floating in a debris field this is a familiar situation.of course the apba madated liferaft inspected before each season.6 man raft for a 3 man boat and solas / cc approved always ends up floating in the air trapped bow bobing up and down as you feel and look to see if you have all your extremities intact.the best place to be is the marine mechanic making 200,00 sitting on land having a beer on the clock for 4 days straight just a little turn of the screwdriver here and there.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 15th, '09, 12:20

Now Bob, don't go getting defensive on me as those were the words of the writer from the link, not mine. I would imagine they used a lighter layup on their raceboat as most manufacturers do.

I was actually looking for some info on Dr. Bob MaGoo, McGee... whatever, as I remember when he was pretty much the king of offshore racers when I started following it as a kid. That's when I found the pics of the Berts.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 15th, '09, 12:21

captbone wrote:This was posted over on the 25bertram site.

Is it a Bert??

Thanks

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/983208985.html

That's funny, this listing has just expired. Wonder if it sold?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '09, 12:30

freebird i did not mean it that way just hated the helpless feeling of floundering in the water with a thousand thoughts going on in your mind.don`t forget these guys we only going 60mph at 140mph (open class) thing begin to happen all not good.the referance to the marine machanic is in open class but if the DNF sign lights up next to the boats numbers in the race committee tent nobody wants to know you!

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 15th, '09, 13:16

I was just making sure I hadn't ruffled any feathers there Bob as I know how sensitive some of you Bertram boys can be! LOL

No doubt safety has come a long way since the 60's where it was fairly common to break bones or die when you stuffed or rolled one, even at 60MPH. I've been 112MPH on flat water, but can't imagine going that fast or even faster in 4-6 footers.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '09, 15:25

the problem is the ocean changes all the time and all offshore races must have 3 or more "LEGS" so you may drive along the shore line for 12 miles in 2' waves then a 120 degree turn in the ruff stuff like 20 miles out the water turns to 8' waves in between 5'.what a bitch and not my decision it is all up to the thottleman.you may see a wave thats big and he does not.the driver knows the boat is going to fly but the real thought is when the boat touches down which way is the bow going to go.you have to PRE compensate because if you stuff it you wear the faceguard some stitches and your go as new but if you spin out you die so the thottleman nails the thottle as soon as the props hit the water you had better have the wheel turn in the right direction.you have nothing holding you to the bolster making it preety easy to fly out of the boat.then they started to use a f-16 canopy with race car seat belts and o/2 masks but when you go under you have to manually open the canopy hopefully a diver would get you out.the speed of the boats kept the boats offshore and no spectator meant no money the sport die off to present day go fast poker runs.there were alot of non apba races with a " run with brung attitude" this is where you get all kinds of boat manufacturer claiming a victory. race boats are just for that and cannot be driven by one person on a sunday drive.the layup is done to perfection with space age material price is no object just like your chevy monte carlo is " slightly" differant then winston cup cars.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Jan 15th, '09, 15:51

The ever changing course is what makes boat racing so much more fun to watch than automobile racing. It's a shame the sport doesn't get any television coverage to speak of.

As for your comments about a single operator not being able to handle an offshore boat rigged for competition, that's generally true with one notable exception... Reggie Fountain.

Back on topic... does anybody know what the beam is/was on these Bertram raceboats? I was just about to see if that ad listed it, but that's when I found it was gone.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jan 16th, '09, 12:08

The early Bertram racers seemed to be stock hulls. The Cowes/Torquay and the Miami/Nassau had several B31's and B25's... some looked to be "right from the factory" express cruisers like Aitken's 'Glass Moppie' and his wife's 'Ultra Violet' and the B25exp. 'Paper Tiger'

Others seemed to be OEM hulls with customized caps/decks placing the helm way aft of the c.o.b. like 'Blue Moppie'

And some had custom caps with the helm right around the c.o.b. like 'Surfrider' and 'Yo Yo'.

By the time Bertram started tweaking and messin with the hull designs of the purpose built race boats (like the 31 at the Mid-Atlantic rendevous) I think they were on the way out of the racing scene. Here's a pic that pretty much sums it up, a big ol' Aronow cigarette alongside a B31 race boat (not the classic B31 hull).

Freebird,
The pic with Dick Bertram in the drink is what happened to 'Brave Moppie' in the '66 Miami/Nassau race. Speculation is they were running fast in real bad conditions, and one of the 550hp detroit diesels broke it's mounts and slammed thru the hull causing it to sink. Nothing to do with structual hull failure. Sad, what a cool boat. I belive it was a B38 special hull with 1100hp of oil slinging detroits under the hatch.

Heres a link to a 1966 Time Mag. article about the race, and what happened to Brave Moppie... a quick read:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -1,00.html
And finally, a link to a videoof the 1965 Cowes/Torquay.. Some good footage of Brave Moppie running against Surfury, a quick interview with Bertram himself, etc...
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6232236KhYYtTbf

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 16th, '09, 13:20

Buju,

You are hereby named the Bertram Board historian! Thanks for the great photos, article and video of the historic powerboat races. What other historic jewels have you been holding up your sleeve?!? Very interesting.

Tommy

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Jan 16th, '09, 13:32

Ditto

pacific marlin · Post by **pacific marlin** » Jan 16th, '09, 13:46

HI Buju,
just to let you know,I recently bought Paper Tiger.
She is a bit of a mess but my plan is to return her to her former glory
and race her again on the 50th anniversary of the Cowes-Torquay in 2011.
I know she is a 25 but if anyone is interested I will post some photos of the project.
Ian

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 16th, '09, 14:25

pacific marlin wrote:I recently bought Paper Tiger.
She is a bit of a mess but my plan is to return her to her former glory
and race her again on the 50th anniversary of the Cowes-Torquay in 2011.
I know she is a 25 but if anyone is interested I will post some photos of the project.
Ian

Post away!!

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jan 16th, '09, 14:34

Thanks Tommy, Andre...
Just like you Tommy,my buis is slow & I learned how to use "the google" on "the internet machine"...
I've done some reading and what not in the past on the subject, and I really enjoy learning how these things unfolded. But that's about it- No historian, just a temporarily unsuccesfull buisinessman.

Pac.Marlin,
That's great... congratulations! Too often these little relics find their way into landfills an whatnot. I read somewhere that it was bought on Ebay for Â£1500? I assume that'd be you? I'd love to see pics, either posted or emailed:
( caycoatings@bellsouth.net )
What was the orig. power in her when she ran the Cowes/Torquay? She sure rumbles nicely in her brief apparence in the video I posted the link for.
I have the same boat (B25 express) which is a stripped hull and cap right now (last four years actually) hope someday to make her a unique Bimini runner.
P.S. you should change your board username to PaperTiger....

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 16th, '09, 15:25

The video was great. Thanks.

pacific marlin · Post by **pacific marlin** » Jan 16th, '09, 15:55

Will do Capt Pat,
But it will have to wait till Monday,I've got some whizkid coming into the office to show me how.
Will also send you the "boat spec table 11-g revision 1972" that we spoke about re the 31. It was enlightening talking to you!
Buju,
I bought it for Â£800 from the guy who paid Â£1500,he was a complete twat,
who fortunatly didn't know what he had.
I will mail you monday with further "questions and answers"
Thanks guys,
Ian.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 26th, '09, 12:44

Allright, here's Paper Tiger in her current state. Lets all wish PacificMarlin luck and Godspeed in bringing her back to represent her former glory, and remind everyone what these "old" bertrams are capable of.
Nuff said.

And a small write up on the race. the type is a little small and hard to make out, but interesting nontheless.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Mar 26th, '09, 15:40

great googlie mooglie ... the "Freebird" is everywhere !!

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 29th, '09, 07:01

Really?

None of the faithful has got any words of encouragement for a half crazy Brit whos taking an old decrepit B25 and attempting to bring her back to represent how the Hunt designed Bertrams dominated the the bygone era of offshore racing in the early 60's? Hmmmmm, the buju is ,dare I say, disappointed.

Surely Ian is gonna have a ton of questions and problems he'll encounter during the rebuild... I hope he'll come to B31.com and 25B.com first to tap into our collective treasure trove of firsthand knowledge. I know that I'd feel proud as hell seeing that B25 in a video of the 50th anniv. Cowes/torq. 20 years from now, knowing that I had some part, small or large, in it's rebirth.

Right?

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 29th, '09, 09:07

Buju wrote:Really?

None of the faithful has got any words of encouragement for a half crazy Brit whos taking an old decrepit B25 and attempting to bring her back to represent how the Hunt designed Bertrams dominated the the bygone era of offshore racing in the early 60's? Hmmmmm, the buju is ,dare I say, disappointed.

Surely Ian is gonna have a ton of questions and problems he'll encounter during the rebuild... I hope he'll come to B31.com and 25B.com first to tap into our collective treasure trove of firsthand knowledge. I know that I'd feel proud as hell seeing that B25 in a video of the 50th anniv. Cowes/torq. 20 years from now, knowing that I had some part, small or large, in it's rebirth.

Right?

Absoluetly Buju. If I can help Ian, I would be glad to. When he's done he will have a very special boat to show off.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 29th, '09, 09:26

Same here- Walter

pacific marlin · Post by **pacific marlin** » Mar 30th, '09, 03:41

Guys,
Thanks for your support.......appreciate it.
Ian.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 30th, '09, 17:37

I wasn't implying that the faithful wouldn't help with advice... by any means.
Just trying to rally the troops... encouragement from a group like this goes a long way.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 30th, '09, 18:00

buju
iam sure everyone on the board is behind pm 200%, just waiting for the rip out to begin, and the questions to roll in.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 30th, '09, 19:53

i am surprise nobody said something " what the hell are you doing driving a race boat with a tie on!!! is this some kind of joke,and what do the 3 " cheerleaders do riding in the back of the boat ? the obvious solution to the boat porpoising is to take the three scrooges from the transom and tie them to the front cleat at least the boat would ride better and pick up 2mph. i realize this is the mid sixties but you know something is wrong when the boat has a a constant leap out of the water and in .

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 31st, '09, 06:48

The thing that strikes me everytime I watch one of these is the attitude of the racers themselves.
These guys are fierce competitors, but humble as can be & will bend over backward to help ea. other at the same time... and the absolute lack of trash talking which is the norm nowadays...Bygone era...
The Gardner brothers (Surfury) beat Dick Bertram the previous year in Surfrider (the Bertram31 which started this thread) when Dick crossed the finish line ahead of them in Glass Moppie ( a Bertram31) but on the wrong side of the marker...
Then Bertram takes it it 65, while expressing his regret the Gardners had to momentarily drop out.
And then the next year at the 1966 Miami to Nassau race, when one of Brave Moppies d.d's came off the mounts and slammed thru the hull causing her to sink in a hurry and leaving Bertram and his small crew afloat in the gulfstream. The Gardner Brothers were a few minutes behind and true to character, stopped to get Brave Moppies crew out of the drink and into Surfury, forfeiting the race but retaining a hell of a bond.

Also like how Surfury obviously has a higher top speed and gives 'em hell, that is until the sea's get rough- then she's very content to ride in Brave Moppies wake.

bertram31.com

Rare Bertram race boat for sale?

Rare Bertram race boat for sale?

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