Unbelievable but true.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 5th, '08, 16:04

I just got a letter from the State of New York Sales Tax department asking for proof that I paid the Sales Tax on the purchase of my Bertram 31 back in 1975...thirty three years ago! Anyone who owns a boat in NY State knows there's no way in hell you can register a boat without paying that tax. Thank God I kept the receipt! The State must be in a lot more trouble than we think if they're going back that far to chase up funds! I can't believe it...and that I still have the receipt. Makes me feel all warm inside to send a copy back to them! Walter

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 5th, '08, 16:06

Hope you attached a GFY note to it...

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Dec 5th, '08, 16:39

If you bought the boat from a dealer, it could be a fruad investigation into the dealer....who may have given you a reciept and then pocketed some or all of the money.

If you bought the boat privately and paid tax directly to the DMV, then I have to think that they have a lot of nerve......

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 5th, '08, 16:58

Mike- I have a receipt from the Department of Motor Vehicles. The sales tax then was 7%. What shocks me is that the letter contains the name of my boat "Bluebeard". The boat wasn't even named when I paid that tax. Bet they're sending guys out to marinas. The letter says "a survey of NY State marinas disclosed that the above listed vessel, of which you are identified as the owner, has been docked, moored or stored at a location within NY state. The information gathered during this survey has been matched against our files to determine if the proper payment of sales or compensating use tax has been made on the purchase or use of this vessel. Presently, we are unable to verify your payment or any exemption from tax claimed for this vessel".

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 5th, '08, 18:09

Absolutely! After 33 years of registration, the burden of proof of payment falls on me? I am surprised I even had the flimsy hand scrawled receipt. Thank God it has their numbers and logo on it. I would have bet I didn't have it when I first opened their letter. I would have been in BIG trouble with penalties and interest! I may still be in big trouble if they question what I am sending. Walter

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 5th, '08, 19:22

you're not in any trouble at all no matter what. its nonsense.

Tim Malik · Post by **Tim Malik** » Dec 5th, '08, 19:31

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 5th, '08, 20:01

tim...its nice there ,but no place is paradise....i looked. i did turn my air conditioner on for 5 hours last summer.

ultimately its the people that matter most.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Dec 6th, '08, 08:08

they came after me for the boat tax. Then last week I got a letter from Miami Dade for a ticket from 1983 that they say I never payed.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 6th, '08, 09:06

bruce...im fighting them right now. there is no way the state is gonna collect on a sales tax beef from the 70s if you stand up to them (especially if you actually have the receipt) ....total fishing expedition. i did a few rounds with them after my dad died....they started sending me some huge bills. another fishing expedition. ixnay.

they are however very irrational....i proved beyond any doubt i was right but they needed form "X" from a bank that is now out of business...........it took 3 months and a lot of frustration...but i got it.

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Dec 6th, '08, 09:12

How can they prove you didn't pay the tax?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 6th, '08, 09:39

If you hold a legal registration of a boat or car in the state of New York, there is no way in hell that you can get it without paying them or presenting proof that you have paid the seller the sales tax. The behind the desk clerks may not be rocket scientists, but they KNOW that that's the drill and I defy anyone to get past them on that issue. This is a "we need more cash" issue, and I'm afraid more state agencies will be doing it. Wait till it's state tax time. Walter

CaptMarkB · Post by **CaptMarkB** » Dec 6th, '08, 12:32

Walter, I've owned two deli's at two different times, and been through sales tax audits with both. Seems NYS Tax likes to target people who don't have the ability or resources to fight back. It was like dealing with the MOB (think I can say that if I'm Italian, right)! Sounds like you're in good shape though. I got a letter too, being the boat is documented with a Florida home port, but was also registered in NY. Thank God.

Good Luck, Mark

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 6th, '08, 12:40

Owners of documented vessels just got a letter (including me) from the State of Louisiana stating now the boat must be state registered too. Feds gave/sold their mailing list to state, I guess.
More BS.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 6th, '08, 12:48

The guy in the next slip from me when I was at Montauk Marine Basin got ticketed with a documented boat and was a resident of New Jersey, but kept his boat docked in NY. They need more money! I would say in his case it was taxation without representation! Walter

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 6th, '08, 13:02

walter...there is a plan afoot to charge RESIDENTS for beach parking next summer.....ill organize a boycott.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Dec 6th, '08, 16:14

What about a statute of limitation?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 6th, '08, 16:41

Randall-It's not a plan, it's for real! We need an act of civil disobedience rally. EVERYONE go park at the beach. Fill the parking lots! Keep the engines running and not get out out of our cars. "We're not parking, we're just driving by and can't move in the busy traffic". Walter

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 6th, '08, 16:51

Mike-seems there's no statute of limitation on knowingly avoiding taxes. How they define knowingly is beyond me. They actually request a canceled check as proof of payment. THAT they'll never get as legally after 7 years, they can be destroyed as far as the IRS goes. As far as taxes go, seems you're considered guilty until proven innocent. I just sent my proof Certified mail, return signed receipt requested with a cc to my attorney. Walter

34Hatt · Post by **34Hatt** » Dec 10th, '08, 13:19

I too went thru this. I talked with other's and marina's and a N.Y state tax person I know " who also got the letter" They went after the Marina's for the Info. They asked for Boat size, make, owners name and years in the yard.
A few key Items mising here such as YEAR and N.Y Hull #s!!!!!
I called the Dumb shits and left all my Info with NY hull #s telling them just look it up, figured they didn't call me back so all was O.K "WRONG"
Got a $18,000.00 Bill tax and fee's and Interest!!!!

Well after chewing her ear off I found out how little they know. They did not know it was a 1967 did not have the N.Y hull #s I gave them. Seems they had changed office's in between. I asked how did you come up with a tax if you don't know the year guess what No answer which I got a lot during our Chat. They kept asking me for a bill of sale???? I said well I have that but that doesn't prove I paid tax, I then said how about the Registration and she reply well that you help clear it up faster!!!! DUH Dumb A**

So then she wants me to mail it to her I said NO she says WHAT, I said Ill fax it too you since I want this cleared up today she says O.K. Next day I call since she did not respond back to me like she said she would. She did not even remember me the next day after I chewed her a new one the day before. I guess I was just another pissed off N.Y tax payer and she probably gets that 30 times a day.

Also other thing I learned was that It is up to you to prove you paid the tax they do not have to prove anything!!!!
So Randall good luck but remember its their job to do this and they will spend years coming after you. They are doing this due to out of state boats that stay in N.Y and they are getting some. A 46' Hatt in my marina registered in N.C but here for ten years got nailed. He didn't not say how much but said it was BIG $$$

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 10th, '08, 13:34

if i remmeber correctly they did this down in jersey maybe 10 years ago. same m.o. out of state boats

bobfioresi · Post by **bobfioresi** » Dec 10th, '08, 14:50

walter; I got one also. I called de de the ny state letter writer who wasn't in , but some other girl "found the info" after i told her where to look. I registered the boat in 1994 when i bought it and also kept the records. I think we'll have to buy a house with a bigger basement to store all this stuff.NY must be in BIG trouble BOB

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 10th, '08, 17:36

They must have gotten the info from Bob Rando or Marie. Now I wonder how many of our neighbors at the marina got the same thing. Walter

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 10th, '08, 19:35

looks like i picked a good summer to keep her in the driveway.

jeffery pagano · Post by **jeffery pagano** » Dec 11th, '08, 07:44

I received the same NYS letter requesting sales tax proof. The NYS letter alleged that the state of NY had discovered the 31 in a marina--yada, yada, yada. The interesting point for me was the 31 they were requesting info on had been lost off Cuttyhunk Ma over 5 years ago, so the contents of the letter NYS sent was absolutely false.
When I confronted the investigator with these facts, she back peddled fast, looked up my records and found in the NYS record system that I had actually paid the tax. At that point she was very cooperative and closed the file, or so she said. So, it appears the NYS has the records readily available to prove the sales tax was paid, but is drifting for owners who have not kept the receipts, who are likely to pay the requested tax because they want to avoid an audit, perhaps for other reasons.

Unlike Walter, I could not immediately find my sales tax receipts, but I retained the insurance pictures of the lost 31 Bounty Hunter off Cuttyhunk, which proved the basis for the request for information to be bogus to begin with. NYS must be really hurting for cash.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 11th, '08, 08:00

iam not in a marina so hopefully ill avoid the b.s.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 11th, '08, 09:38

they are probably doing an audit on the newspapers.

White Bear · Post by **White Bear** » Dec 12th, '08, 10:31

Of all the regulatory agencies I have had the pleasure of doing business with during my 40 years as a lawyer, New York State Sales Tax has always been the most unreasonable and the most difficult with which to deal.

bertram31.com

Unbelievable but true.

Unbelievable but true.

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unnbeliveaaable but true

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