Transmission service - sanity check

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Dec 20th, '07, 17:40

I'm having my stbd ZF tranny inspected and probably rebuilt. Here's the expected cost:

Pull engine and transmission: 2-3 hours @ $65/hr
Rebuilt transmission: $1000 - $2000
Heat exchanger if required $250
Replace all: 2-3 hours @ $65

(Engines need to be pulled to get transmission out, plus I'll be able to more easily sand/paint/replace belts and hoses/clean & paint bilge/etc)

So I'm looking at $2000 - $3000 total. I'm located in MD. It seems OK to me but I don't know any better. My relatives in the midwest are convinced I'm being ripped off but they're do-it-yourselfers w/ smaller boats and everything's cheaper over there.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Dec 20th, '07, 17:44

Don't see a lot of Bertrams trolling through the midwest corn.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 20th, '07, 18:00

New surplus ZF IRM 220As are selling in B&H for about 2500, with an alleged "factory warranty". They are good gears, and rebuilding them is not a bad idea, depending on what's wrong to start the train wreck. Getting someone to fool with them is another issue.

UV

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Dec 20th, '07, 18:23

B & H ?

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Dec 20th, '07, 18:40

we pulled Craig's transmissions out of his boat this spring to re-seal them, there was no need to remove the engine.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 20th, '07, 18:48

B&H -- Boats and Harbors Magazine Also on net at http://www.boats-and-harbors.com/

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Dec 20th, '07, 19:00

Sounds like a decent deal to me. Down here you will not pay less than 110 per hour. the guy doing the work will not be giving you 110 dollars worth of knowledge or labor, then you will have to go back afterwards and fix the screw ups, ie, grease on the bolsters and the list goes on. Can't wait to re-locate.

Jareb · Post by **Jareb** » Dec 20th, '07, 19:08

Kevin,
Are you leaving the state or just moving a little further north?
John

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Dec 20th, '07, 20:25

Raybo Marine NY wrote:we pulled Craig's transmissions out of his boat this spring to re-seal them, there was no need to remove the engine.

Mine's a 28 w/ Cummins 210's. The transmissions are straddled by a doghouse in the bulkhead. He felt it would easier to just pull the engine than to try and fish it out of there. Plus I get great access for cleanup over the winter. (How often have I thought, "This would be easy if this damn thing were on a bench".)

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Dec 20th, '07, 20:29

I thought about it after, the price you got was great IMHO and you can do some bilge/motor maintance at the same time.

the boat I mentioned is gas powered, I just sometimes think of the pandora's box when it comes to engine removal.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 20th, '07, 21:37

No rip off as far as price is concerned. I wish I could pay $65per, but my rates are up at $110 also.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 20th, '07, 22:14

Steve

We are at $125 an hour in NJ. So the price seems right. Seems really right. Tony Meola

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 20th, '07, 22:26

150 and if a helper is with him 210 per hour.that job would be 8 hours but 1000 to 2ooo would be less because we repair it in house.unless it is the case /main shaft/output shaft i cannot see 2000.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 20th, '07, 22:28

Steve

My thoughts are that if your transmission needs anything more than "Soft Parts" (seals, piston rings, gaskets and clutches) you will be better off puchasing a new transmission or a good running take out.

I think that 3 hours to pull and 3 more hours to install your engine may be underestimated.............I think a more realistic time estimate will be 3 or 4 to pull then 6 or 8 to do a complete and thorough install/alignment.

Ya know things never go as smooth as we expect.

$65 per hour is a great price.....I think the auto dealerships charge $75 per hour or so............I sent one of my outboard motors to the shop last summer to the tune of $87.00 per hour......OUCH

Harry

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 20th, '07, 22:47

Shoot guys, I did not charge that much most of the time as a lawyer, now when I was a plumber, lots more.

There is a solution...learn to do it yourself....the Prince of Potions, His Honor from Galveston, has an airplane in additon to his Bertram. He got tired of paying big bucks to get a licensed airplane mechanic to change his oil and spark plugs, so he dove into it and got his A&P (airframe & powerplant) mechanic's license from the FAA, so he can maintain his own airplane, or that matter yours. I subscribe to His Honor's way to deal with our toys....learn how to work on your own stuff, get the basic tools and save a ton of money and misery. You can't fix it if you don't understand how it works tho, so spend some time in study.

UV

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 20th, '07, 23:01

I'm right there with you Vic..........You cannot put a price on the gratification of a job well done that you did yourself and the confidence that the job was done correctly.

The problem comes when you have more "Crap" to maintain than you have time maintain.............then you have to call for help. Thats when you better be able to trust your help

Harry

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 20th, '07, 23:10

or you can do what i do.....theres not much chance i can rebuild an engine or a tranny...but i can unplug em from the boat and plug em back in....saves a good bit on the bill.....and you learn a lot.....i did every system on the austin healey like this including the engine...much cheaper than just taking it in and now i know how everything goes together..and its all professionally rebuilt

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Dec 21st, '07, 07:32

Like an engine. to rebuild it correctly it takes parts and labor.

If the gear box needs anything other than clutches and seals my experience has been to purchase a new or exchange for a rebuild from a factory rebuilder.

I don't do as many gears as before because it doesn't pay. I only deal with authorized rebuilders as they have the equipment to shop test the rebuild rather than install and then find out there is a problem.

Call Transmission Marine in Ft Lauderdale and quiz them on price for an exchange or new. They won't give a rebuild price until they see the gear.
954/467/1540.

Also bow down and thank the marine Gods for the 65/hr.

I'm on the low end of the hourly rate at 70/hr and it goes up to 150/hr.

learn how to work on your own stuff, get the basic tools and save a ton of money and misery. You can't fix it if you don't understand how it works tho, so spend some time in study.

With the general group we have here. I whole heartily support your theory as we be a special group, and I don't mean the olymipcs.

Or like my friend who decided to save 125 bucks and trim his own tree.....
The chainsaw was 200.00, ladder was 150.00 and when he fell out of the tree and the saw landed on his arm and broke it, medical was over a thousand, so he spent 1400 bucks to save 125.

Must be the new math.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 21st, '07, 08:19

Labor rates are not everything.

I would rather pay 125/hr to a mechanic who works smart then 65 or even 35/hr to someone who just goes "At It". Point being it's not so much the rate but what you get for your money.

Not knowing the mechanic or his skills I couldn't say whether it was a deal or not.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 21st, '07, 10:02

sometimes you just cant avoid getting screwed.....when my port tranny broke i did all the work necessary to pull the engine....the yard i was in at the time wouldn't let me use a friends front end loader so i used their fork lift...took 11 minutes to drop that puppy in my truck....detatched the tranny and had a friend rebuild it...parts 100 bucks.....then had it bench tested by a pro...a..ok.$125...took 26 minutes to drop the whole thing back in the boat.........bill from marina...$500...when i left soon after the owner said to me....."you're a nice guy but i dont want customers who pull and replace their own engines...i want customers who give me their credit cards and say...do what it takes"...in a nice public marina now

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Dec 21st, '07, 10:28

I agree with Vic for two reasons. If you do it yourself, you know what's in there and can diagnose and maintain yourself. If you get stuck doing it yourself at least now you are an informed consumer and can talk to the mechanics with some intelligence. You are less likely to get your hat handed to you and your credit card incinerated.
I bought the manual for my ZF 220A's ($70) and ma making my own "soft" repairs. Reading the manual and doing the work I now understand the innards and am saving huge $$$.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Dec 21st, '07, 11:54

Jareb,
Trying to go to the Ocala area or possibly Citrus County. Still a lot of variables though. Nothing in stone yet.

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Dec 25th, '07, 12:16

SteveZ-

Thought I would share my experience. The in & out time seems a little fast, I did mine myself, and was much longer than that. Granted my inexperince slowwed me down, but for me the big hassle was moving my holding tank hoses which were in the way. The working space was beyond tight slowing me down. Lots of things needed to be moved out of the way so I could extract the beast out of the little hatch ...remote oil filter....electrical cables.,,,,ect.

Don't unders estimate the time it takes for proper shaft alignment. It took my hours of trail and error to get it right. (I still plane to retweak the alignment again.) Can't for the life of me figure out why it was so far out after a remove and replace operation, but it was.

You should replace the damper plate....I went with one of the R & D "new age" rubberized units at about 300 because it was the only one I could find with the correct offset for my enging tranny combo. (Old cummins 504 to a 73C BorgWarner.) I think you can get a standard unit for around $100-$150.

All the best & Merry Christmas.
Giff

bertram31.com

Transmission service - sanity check

Transmission service - sanity check

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