Bertram31 World Cup

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 30th, '07, 08:56

I think we should have our own World Cup Fishing tournament. We could pick a three day period and everyone could go fish on their 31 Bertrams one of the three days and submit thier catches to a judge. The rules would have to be decided, and different fish would have to be judge differently. I do not know how it should be set up I just know that we should do it.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Nov 30th, '07, 09:25

I like it. Let's get the ball rolling, heres a few thoughts.
Entry fees under 100. 10% goes to the site. Prizes in green. We'll need some "honest" lawyer type to hold the entry fees and distribute winnings. Maybe join for species you can fish for. Blue Marlin, Sailfish Tuna etc.....
Fish must be caught on a 31 Bertram, on recreational trips (no fish caught by charters can count)
Fish period of 2 weeks pick 3 days, call in or e-mail your fish day.
Weights only on certified scales with picture and date stamp
Releases when accompanied by pictures only with date stamp.
All standings posted on web board.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 30th, '07, 10:01

why not make it our children or grandchildren.this way we could have just about every 31 enter.a tuna or mako tournament limits some of us who can`t make the canyons or go that far offshore.possibly striper in the north and amberjack or something else in the south and west. ps- jp we need to put a handicap on you 6 year old dauther!

nic · Post by **nic** » Nov 30th, '07, 10:11

Great idea!

Nic

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Nov 30th, '07, 11:27

Brewster,
When you printing up the T-shirts<g> I need 3 XXL
Ray

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Nov 30th, '07, 12:12

Brewster Minton wrote:I think we should have our own World Cup Fishing tournament. We could pick a three day period and everyone could go fish on their 31 Bertrams one of the three days and submit thier catches to a judge. The rules would have to be decided, and different fish would have to be judge differently. I do not know how it should be set up I just know that we should do it.

Brewster,

I wish you would have posted this idea about 2 weeks ago. I had on my computer some rules, regulations and a point breakdown for various species, that was used when Al Gilen (a Blackfin owner) and I (with a few others) created for our Bertam Blackfin Shootout.

Unfortunately, I was having problems with my computer and I started dumping stuff and backing up other stuff. I didn't think I would have a need for the shootout information, so that was some of the stuff I dumped. We had shirts, weigh in tickets, and a photo verification process. The shootout lasted about 3 months to allow everyone ample opportunity to fish for similar species, as southern fishermen had longer access to pelagics compared to northern fishermen. At the end of the shootout, the boat that had the most points was considered the winner. My camera is with my girlfriend right now, when I get it back I will post a picture of the shirt we had made for the shootout.

Al sometimes views this board and maybe will chime in. John Vieter handled the shootout on the west coast and might chime in as well.
I will also email them and see if they still have anything stored that they can help us out with. Short of that, I say let's just fish for fishing's sake, and proclaim UV as the winner.

algillen · Post by **algillen** » Nov 30th, '07, 13:15

Al sometimes views this board and maybe will chime in. John Vieter handled the shootout on the west coast and might chime in as well.
I will also email them and see if they still have anything stored that they can help us out with. Short of that, I say let's just fish for fishing's sake, and proclaim UV as the winner.

LOL... I visit the site just about daily. Way too entertaining to not stop by and check in. But I keep a low profile, because if I don't, Dug is likely to nominate me to run this tournament just like he did last time!!

Anyhow, Harv, I sent you some files, but I have ALL the content still laying around on my computer. If it turns out to be useful, I can burn the entire site onto a DVD and send it to whomever is going to host and manage it. Not me - I don't have a Bertram...

P.S., if this gets off the ground, I might just throw my support behind Team Goldfish... he owes me a trip or two offshore (and a pizza dinner for a side bet that he lost)!

goldfish74 · Post by **goldfish74** » Nov 30th, '07, 14:19

Al,
First chance we get next year, your on (unless you are on another continent at the time).
And I know I still owe you the pizza.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 30th, '07, 14:20

now i started a runkus at oakdale yacth; only bertrams at dock "A"this is a partial shot on my right is a 42'/33' and 51'

as you can see a stock 31' my boat and a 1995 moppie

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 30th, '07, 14:53

i guess i should preview my posts someday --try ruckus.this is not univ. of maryland or a term paper and spelling don`t count! strickly informational.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Nov 30th, '07, 17:27

Bob, I think that is so totally cool of you and the boatyard.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Nov 30th, '07, 17:42

algillen wrote: LOL... I visit the site just about daily. Way too entertaining to not stop by and check in. But I keep a low profile, because if I don't, Dug is likely to nominate me to run this tournament just like he did last time!!

Anyhow, Harv, I sent you some files, but I have ALL the content still laying around on my computer. If it turns out to be useful, I can burn the entire site onto a DVD and send it to whomever is going to host and manage it. Not me - I don't have a Bertram...

P.S., if this gets off the ground, I might just throw my support behind Team Goldfish... he owes me a trip or two offshore (and a pizza dinner for a side bet that he lost)!

Al,

What you sent me should just about cover it. We will probably have to determine rules for southeast coast and the gulf coast, but that shouldn't be too hard to do. As for fishing, if Windstar is ready next spring, you are more than welcome to fish with me, and I'll take you for some" REAL BROOKLYN" Style pizza afterwards. No offense, but the only pizza I like on Staten Island is from Nunzio's.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 30th, '07, 18:33

harv the owner ask me to pick up a trade in so after finding out it was a 95 moppie i tie up all the bertrams at "A" dock the premier dockage at oakdale. i put up the sign bertram docking only and most people took it for real.just playing with the owners of bottle boats or should i say messing with there heads.---bob the prankster

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 2nd, '07, 23:07

I'll varify all tournament pics. I feel like I'm the only one that's fully qualified to handle this task. Not really...just let me know who wins.
ps- what's up, Harv?

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Dec 6th, '07, 10:13

We need to pic some dates and come up with some rules that will include everyone. There has to be a way to have everyone fish for their local fish and still be able to be part of it. If its a world thing it cant be just tuna or sharks.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 6th, '07, 11:45

Brewster Minton wrote:We need to pic some dates and come up with some rules that will include everyone. There has to be a way to have everyone fish for their local fish and still be able to be part of it. If its a world thing it cant be just tuna or sharks.

I have what you need.
Check your private messages and give me a call.

Bertram Joe · Post by **Bertram Joe** » Dec 7th, '07, 20:31

Sounds like a great idea. I'm in.
Bertram Joe

nic · Post by **nic** » Dec 7th, '07, 22:29

I like the sound of a World Cup....Southern Hemisphere Division....feeling confident...getting the T Shirts printed now.

Nic

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Dec 8th, '07, 10:42

I like the idea. But before I commit, will there be a senior citizen handicap? Like a head start.

And will there be any fishing off New Jersey that counts?

Will the TUB be towed out to the hundred fathom curve and be stationed as a fuel dock?

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Dec 8th, '07, 21:31

The Tubb if deamed fishable and more importantly "insurable" is always allowed. There will be no senior handicap as buy all rights you old folks have been fishing longer and should be better then us young punks.
There will of course have to be the all important disclaimer sent in with the "entry donation". This so as not to have any body liable for some idiot fishin when he ain't suppose to be.
But more importantly dates and categories. What species will this thing be fishin for?
Brewster you the lead man on this?

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 9th, '07, 04:58

JP,

I have a format and rules that were set up by Al Gillen, Dug Stowe, John Vieter, and myself when we had a shootout a few years back between us and some Blackfin owners. I will be heading out to Brewster's during the week to bring him copies and sit down and hash out whatever other revisions that need to be addressed so that everyone has a fair shot. We need to take into account that we have owners on the site from all over the world, and I've already noticed that our "mates from down under" are eager to be a part of this, as I'm sure so is Chris Wilson from South Africa. So what will be needed is some contributions from those guys as to what species, besides the usual run of pelagics, are local and common to them so we can alot them a certain point value.

In the shootout, pelagics such as shark, tuna, swords, and marlin were included. But smaller species were also awarded points so that owners with a range restriction could also particiapate. Included species were fluke, stripers (rockfish), bluefish, blackfish (togs), salmon, dolphin (mahi mahi), halibut, yellowtail, and white seabass.

Brewster and I will work this all out and post the information and rules once we have it finalized. Anyone that wants to assist or make suggestions about species or fishing dates....is more than welcome and will be greatly appreciated. What I have so far is a lsit of species covering the north and south for the Pacific west coast, and a list for the Northeast Atlantic. We will need input to come up with lists for the Southeast Atlantic, the Gulf coast, Australia, Africa, and any other area where somone may be interested in participating.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Dec 9th, '07, 08:34

I would love to be the lead man but I dont think I will have the time to do it right. Please speak up if one of you can help or lead. I can help but the seafood market is so busy, and durring summer it is off the hook.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 9th, '07, 18:39

Brewster,

I think with what I have, plus the few little tweaks we need from the areas I mentioned before, we should have this ready to go in no time. I will be coming out one day this week to show you what I have, and we can figure out what to do from there. You can't back out now....it was your suggestion.

nic · Post by **nic** » Dec 9th, '07, 22:20

Harv,

If you can let me know roughly when the Bertram 31 World Cup will be held I can come back with the likeliest species around here.... for instance Feb/March will see small Black Marlin off the coast for a short time. As a surfer, we don't target sharks....karma.

Nic

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 9th, '07, 23:38

Nic,

Send me a list by private message regarding the various species available to you. With each species, let me know the ease or difficulty in landing each type. Also, look above and see if any species I've mentioned are available. Then we can figure out a list that will be comparable to the choices we have here in the states.

nic · Post by **nic** » Dec 9th, '07, 23:42

Harv,

Will do. You understand the conditions that we operate under make landing all species very, very difficult. Especially as the day goes on....

Nic

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 9th, '07, 23:59

Harv - If the UVI guys buy a couple of the Tropic Star boats, fish on them for a week, then sell them back, all paperwork in order, do we qualify?

UV

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Dec 10th, '07, 08:31

Vic,

You sly devil you...

!

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 10th, '07, 10:43

Vicroy wrote:Harv - If the UVI guys buy a couple of the Tropic Star boats, fish on them for a week, then sell them back, all paperwork in order, do we qualify?
UV

Vic,
I'll go you one better. You don't have to buy the boats and resell them. Just remember, this isn't your gig and you aint automatically the winner, my fren.

Dug wrote:Vic,

You sly devil you... !

Dug,

Vic aint as sly as you think.
If you remember, we set up everything on a point value. Vic might manage a couple of marlin per day at Tropic star, so figure a minimum of 2 whites for 200 points plus a blue for 250 points gives him a total of 450 points for the day. But if I catch 10 bluefish at 6.3 points per pound and each one weighs 10 lbs, that nets me 630 points for the same day. And we all know how fast it can take to land 10 bluefish. Throw in a striper or 2, plus a couple of fluke and you see how the inshore fishermen have just as much of a chance as the offshore guys......maybe better.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 10th, '07, 11:44

Harv wrote:the inshore fishermen have just as much of a chance as the offshore guys......maybe better.

Therein lies a fault in the alloted point per pound of a species.

When you can out number an offshore blue marlin with just a few inshore blue fish, something ain't right in the math... But I'll let ya'll grapple with that since I probably won't be fishin' from any kind of boat, in kind of water.

Br,

Patrick

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 10th, '07, 12:02

Capt Patrick is a wise man.

algillen · Post by **algillen** » Dec 10th, '07, 12:20

Harv, if you remember what we did in the Bertram-Blackfin Shootout, we only allowed the ONE fish per boat per category to be entered. So you could only enter one bluefish (your biggest baddest bluefish). It was structured more a derby where the more categories where you could put a respectable catch, the better your chances were of winning. But that format is a lot harder to conduct on a WW basis.

We also set point totals such that an outstanding fish (of state or world record proportions) would be approximately equal in points to other species of equally exceptional proportions. So, yes, a 31 pound bluefish would have been worth 195 points, but when was the last time you caught a bluefish that big?

Remember that we had completely different qualifying species lists for east and west coasts for that very reason.

Within a couple days I should have a new laptop to replace the one that just died on me, and then I will reinstall my ftp software and will post the old files on a temporary location so you can pull them down.

ag

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 10th, '07, 14:57

hell...a novice like me can catch bluefish all day from my kayak....dont seem fair.....however ...maybe you can give nic and me points for catching....waves

capy · Post by **capy** » Dec 10th, '07, 17:15

Hey Harv, no offense, but those rules sound like a democrat-affirmative action plan for undocumented fisherman.....

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 10th, '07, 19:02

Al is right, only one fish per catagory was allowed. Once a fish is caught in one catagory however, I do beleive if a larger one was caught later on it would bump the smaller fish and take it's place. That would also mean 1 white asnd 1 blue marlin for UV, and then he would have to look for other targets like tuna and mahi. Below is an outline of the point structure we used in the Bertram Blackfin shootout. This is for the Northeast Coast and my next post will have north and south west coast. These are by no means engraved in stone, but they did seem to work well during the shootout.

Northeast Region Rules
Fishing Boundaries: Up to 120 NM offshore from this region, not more than 60 NMs into adjacent regions.

Fishing Dates: From 12:01 a.m. on July 1, 2004 through Midnight on August 15, 2004

Eligible Species List:

Species Criteria Points/Pound Release Points
Striped Bass Weight points 2.5 -
Fluke Weight points 10 -
Tautog Weight points 8.3 -
Bluefish Weight points 6.3 -
Mako/Thresher Shark 150 pts/release, 1 point/pound, 150# minimum kill 1 150
Mahi mahi Weight points 2.9 -
Yellowfin Tuna Weight points 1 -
Bluefin Tuna Weight points (pending NMFS Regs) 0.5 -
Bigeye Tuna Weight points 0.4 -
White marlin Release points - 100
Blue marlin Release points - 250

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 10th, '07, 19:06

Northern California Region Rules
Fishing Boundaries: Point Arena to the North and Point Piedras Blancas to the South.

Fishing Dates: From 12:01 a.m. on May 15, 2004 through Midnight on September 18, 2004

Eligible Species List:

Species Criteria Points/Pound Release Points
Halibut Weight points 3.3 -
Salmon Weight points 3.3 -
Albacore Weight points 2.5 -
Bluefin Weight points 2.5 -
Striped Bass Weight points 4 -
Leopard Shark Weight points 2.9 -
Lingcod Weight points 3.3 -
White Seabass Weight points 2.5 -
Thresher Shark 100 pts/release or kill; all females must be released - 100
Mako Shark 100 pts/release or kill; all females must be released - 100
Swordfish 500 pts/release or kill - 500

Southern California Region Rules
Fishing Boundaries: Morro Bay, CA to the North and San Quintin, Mexico to the South

Fishing Dates: From 12:01 a.m. on May 15, 2004 through Midnight on September 18, 2004

Eligible Species List:

Species Criteria Points/Pound Release Points
Halibut Weight points 3.3 -
Albacore Weight points 4.0 -
Bluefin Weight points 2.5 -
yellowfin Weight points 2.5 -
Yellowtail Weight points 3.3 -
Dorado Weight points 3.3 -
Lingcod Weight points 3.3 -
White Seabass Weight points 2.5 -
Thresher Shark 100 pts/release or kill; all females must be released - 100
Mako Shark 100 pts/release or kill; all females must be released - 100
Striped marlin Release points (no kill) - 250
Swordfish 500 pts/release or kill - 500

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 10th, '07, 19:10

algillen wrote: So, yes, a 31 pound bluefish would have been worth 195 points, but when was the last time you caught a bluefish that big?

ag

I once caught an 11lber that had a 20lber clamped on it's tail.....does that count?

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 10th, '07, 19:32

What about:
Tarpon
Wahoo
Amberjack
Cobia (Lemonfish, Ling)
Red Snapper
and Flounder too if you have fluke.
?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 10th, '07, 22:32

Yeah, and what about:

Choupique

Sac a Lait

Channel Mullet

Manatee

Garfish

Gaspergoo

Alligator

Gulf Sturgeon

Piling Snapper

My view is your proposed rules are way too complicated and biased toward certain factions, you know who you are.....My UVI rules are simple and easy to understand. Like you say, ain't my deal....but the notion that a bluefish can somehow trunp a blue marlin is, to coin a phrase, a liberal, socialist, maybe commie attempt to make chicken salad out of chickensh*t.

I may offer a proposal to have a world wide tourney, no entry fee, and have a winner in each country based on just one outstanding fish, no matter what kind it is......the decision to be made by a panel of those trained in legal matters...say da Judge, Hyena Love, Rawleigh, Kipp, Huesso, Lyman the G-Man, etc.

It just needs to be fair.

You fren'

UV

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Dec 10th, '07, 22:43

Those fishing rules you have Harv are more complicated than the N.M.F. rules, gonna have to hire UV to clarify all those rules.

DQ

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Dec 10th, '07, 23:21

Andre,

that is why I am asking for input. When we had the shootout, no one in the southeast or gulf coast seemed interested, therefore we had no system setup for those areas.

UV,

as always, I appreciate your valuable insight. The point is, not everyone can get to the man in the blue suit. To curve things with a point system, allows everyone to try their luck. Now that I have some clarification from AL, it is true, a bluefish will not trump a blue marlin. But to make it a round robin type affair with multiple species might appeal to more people. There is no reason why anyone should have an advantage of any kind. But the point is, not everyone can run 100 miles to reach prime fishing grounds. Should they be left out of the fun? Should it be a long range event only? Is it fair that some areas only require a 30 minute run to deep blue water when others are still in 50 feet after 30 minutes of running?

I just came up with proposals. Personally, I think that if this is going to fly, we need input from a majority of the people that are interested in the challenge. Heck this wasn't even my idea, but I was the first person to come up with any type of suggestions, based on a collaboration of work by 4 or 5 of us a few years ago. And the truth of the matter is, what we had set up for the shootout, seemed to work pretty evenly across the board. Gee, if I can get 50 guys to give me their 2 cents worth, I'll have a dollar..........

Respectfully submitted for your approval by,
Yo fren'

nic · Post by **nic** » Dec 11th, '07, 01:04

One winner per country? We're already that. We want the World Championship!

Nic

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