The Original 31 had Spray Rails! (Widened chines)

[Ironworker]

I was watching this Youtube video and to my surprise the original 31 Bertram had widened chines very much the way mine are on the Fly N Fish.

I'm betting they dropped the widened chines when they went into fiberglass production in order to simply the mold process. Anyone have any actual information on this topic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZDgefaVdDA&t=307s

[Robert lico]

I had no idea they used the photo`s of my boat "Phoenix" flying over waves in Montauk ,NY

[Carl]

Interesting video (I find anything with boats interesting), seems a good bit of AI and picked up web photos along the way. As Bob said video posted his boat a couple times and I thing Jerry Santiago's, No Cavity makes an appearance and Swagglers if I'm correct.

Rick, I see what you saw and yup it looks like the ol girls had a spray rails. A couple shots have' em up front and a couple look to have wider chimes in rear...Spray Rail too?? No sure I saw in these pictures, but I love the ones that have a 31' foot boat with driver in a buggy seat hanging off the transom. I get the reason, but makes me laugh anyway.

Thanks for sharing.

[Ironworker]

I thought it was very interesting. But then I'm a sucker for any B31 videos.

I wonder if there are some closer perspective photos of the original B31? I duplicated my outer chines based on the B20 that I have. I can say that adding this feature turned this boat into a dry boat not the "very wet boat" according to David Pascoe.

Anyone have any idea how we could track down some more info on these spray rails?

[Robert lico]

if I was younger I would have sued David Pascoe .wet boat ,spray rails ? get the bow out of the water the first six feet never touches the water and the water breaks under the pillars and sprays two feet in back of the boat . lets see I broke my right arm so I will purposely brake the left arm to make it even. crazy theories, fix the problem not react to the results of poor balance !

[Tony Meola]

If I remember right didn't John have spray rails added to Reel Cowboy?

[Carl]

Bob, when you run 18-20 knots on windy days your not seeing spray on your enclosure?

I understand faster, water at the pillars, but asking about slower cruise, with water breaking even with front of cabin. Fast troll speeds in snot... That may be more me as I drive from lower helm which would be like standing on your motor box at the bulkhead.


Yes Tony, John had spray rails on Reel Cowboy.

[Ironworker]

If I remember right didn't John have spray rails added to Reel Cowboy?

He did. That is where I first got the idea after looking at some of his photos. I talked with both him and the guy in Texas that put them on his boat.

I ended up building my own spray rails out of Coosa. Again technically I just widened the outer chine by 1 1/2" at the back then started tapering about 2/3s to nothing at the bow.

I'd like to get one of you guys that have extensive experience in your conventional hull 31's to test out my boat sometime. I'd be interested in an experienced opinion.

[Carl]

Rick, I can provide you with the experience, from experience, all I'll need is you and a bucket of water.

If you want to experience the late fall bass run on a sporty day, I'll need some ice.


I understand the front spray rails as the bow as it is now just slices waves in a V, it just goes up and out, wind brings it back. The rails push spray outward more. Not sure much rail is needed at the transom...although I can see the lines looking better tapered.

Then again I don't tend to sit in the back...I do kinda recall people deciding to move chairs away from the side on the way back from the beach on a few occasions. I like to go just inside the inlet...get the clean ocean water, but some protection from open ocean. Down side is the late noon breeze that always picks up. Blows right into the inlet which is bad enough, add an outgoing tide it gets interesting...and of course nobody wants to leave with plenty of sun left on a summer afternoon. Anyway, yep, maybe some spritz gets in the back as well.

[Robert lico]

carl I am saying honest to God no spray what so ever. the spray is behind the boat about four feet. the water breaks just under the pillars and the rest of the boat is out of the water so I never " stuff " the bow.

[Carl]

Bob,
I understand running at a good clip, bow proud with water breaking at the pillars. The water spray is behind you.

I think there should be some understanding that everyone s boat is not going to be running 24 knots in snot. Mine with 210's isn't running 24 knots downhill with the wind and tide behind me. OK not true, I've done well over 24 knots down the East river on outgoing tide. 17-18 knots, windy off the front quarter its drip dry day at the Johnsons.

I think we could move motors and re-balance till the cows turn blue, the boat is not going to see spray 4 feet behind my boat. Could I up the hp and to make that happen...yes I'm sure I could. But for now 210's are more then fine for my needs.
I mention me and my boat as that is, well me, I know me. I also know there are many others that run the 31 in a similar fashion as I do and we come back wet with the understanding the 31 can be a wet boat in some conditions.

[Tony Meola]

Rick

You haven't lived until you run home from the Hudson Canyon for 5 hours,with every other wave hitting you in the face.

Spray rails who needs spray rails.

We found every window leak on the boat that day.

[Carl]

I went out yesterday in 2-3's, blowing good and can confirm it is a wet boat at 17 knots. The upside, after a day working in a machine shop a saltwater shower felt good. You know, people pay good money for salt bathes...

[Ironworker]

I despise getting wet especially early in the morning!

I will try to find some pics of how I built my spray rails and add them to this thread. In the big scheme of things it was not a big job and I while I don't have much experience in running the B31 without the spray rails, I can honestly say that my boat is a dry boat. I welcome anyone to come experience the dry ride and give us their opinion of the effectiveness.

[Ironworker]

I am adding photos to give some context to this thread. When I added mine I specifically wanted to get away from the "Wet Boat" reputation the B31 had or as David Pascoe says a "Very Wet Boat".

I didn't have much to go on when I started my boat project except for some photos from John and John's wife who owned the Reel Cowboy. Also, I have a B20 that has much wider outer chines than the B31. In the end, I mostly tried to duplicate the wider chine on the B20 which is an incredibly dry boat. I didn't get much info from the guy that installed John's spray rails so I created my own process using 3/4" Coosa BW26. I formed those with a table saw and router (notice the back cut on the coosa to form the correct angle under the hull). I was looking for a gentle roll to deflect the water off the hull and down.

I used epoxy putty to adhere the primary coosa rail to boat then added a second filler piece of coosa on top to form a nice curve. After rough sanding, we then used Epoxy fairing to form the final shape. After that we added TWO layers of 1708 glass (or maybe 1808) over the entire new rail with about 3 inches overlap on top and about 4" to 5" overlap under the hull (unfortunately I don't have any pics of the glass that I could find.). Adding the glass is a critical component IMO, so please don't skip that part. A final couple layers of epoxy fairing on top. Repaint the boot strip and bottom paint and go fishing.

I started with approximately 1 1/2" width at the stern and starting tapering the width the last 10 feet towards the bow to nothing. Note that I stopped at the last forward chine towards the bow with the spray rail

Cost was minimal. A sheet of 3/4" coosa bw26 is about $400 and the epoxy is about $170 a gallon or so. We used about a gallon of Awlcraft epoxy fairing as well. I'm guessing it took us about a week to add the rails, do the fairing and glass work. A portion of that time was figuring out how to make them work.

My boat has been lifted with straps a number of times with no effect on the spray rails. The Coosa, epoxy putty and two layers of glass is very strong.

[Ironworker]

Here are the pics in no particular order. We test fit the coosa with decking screws holding it in place.







[imghttps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8am4s07bfialtlc0 ... qmec&raw=1][/img]



More to come....

[Ironworker]

Second group of pics...



[imghttps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jw40k1zt09jn3i24 ... cwfc&raw=1][/img]





[imghttps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rapjtlm6zq0pa53c ... omaf&raw=1][/img]

[Carl]

Rick-

At times I'm not fond of the spray, but in truth I really don't care much. If I did I'd have thought about adding spray rails or going to a Blackfin...which I almost did years ago. But that was mostly as it has a nicer cabin and bridge. It was also newer with nice shiny gelcoat, had diesels and a nice price tag (nice is to be read with sarcasm). I was on the fence ( seems I'm there alot) about buying it and not being able to use the way we were using the bought and paid for 31 Bert. Diesels, but 3208 CAts are thirsty and pricey to maintain compared to 440's. You can buy alot of gas for the cost of note. The deal breaker was the broker was a friend of a friend and told me to pass on "this one".

Oh...spray rails! I'd do alot of other things before I'd consider adding them. Its a boat, I mention its a wet boat for those that consider buying one so they know going in as it can be something to consider. Rick, I think your also closer to running Bob speed with lots of spray landing were you've already been. I think the Express can also be wetter...I'm driving from your rear bulkhead on top of the engine box looking over the cabin. Spray that hits the front and sides of your bridge is in my face. I guess I could just shut the front windshield/window...but I like the view with it open. Nobody ever said I was the shiniest tool in the box.



I like the build pics Rick, they should be added onto Captain Patrick Build Tips section for those that want to turn a wet boat into a dry boat. In addition to that, Bob Licos' method should be added as an alternate method...or possibly a complimentary method. Maybe someday before I crack the nut and paint the boat spray rails could be added. As I mentioned a fast troll has spray coming at me...I tested that again yesterday...as if I didn't know already.

[Ironworker]

The video listed several recognized short comings of the B31, Wet boat, Beam Sea Roll, Fuel efficiency and Small flybridge.

I tried to correct most of those issues when I rebuilt my boat...

Spray rails, Check
Fuel Efficiency, Check (I'm pretty happy with the Cummins QSB 5.9s 380hp but, I probably could have gotten better fuel efficiency with the Yanmars)
Larger Flybridge, check

Beam Sea Roll, Not yet although I've wondered a time or two about adding a Sea Keeper.

I was just thinking about starting my boat renovation when Bertram announced their new 35 which was supposed to be the newer better version of the 31. While the boat had a lot of great features, IMO it had too much stuff.

All in All, I'd say the Bertram 31 had a pretty good run. I suspect we'll see a return of this style boat in the future.

[Carl]

See now I do not consider any of those items short comings...more like characteristics of the boat.

Wet Boat- Yup, its wet, don't like water don't own a boat.
Beam Sea Roll- Yup, they roll like a mother. But for a bit of roll you get wave slicing stability.
Fuel Efficiency- Yup, that V does cost more money to run. Did I mention wave slicing stability? Maybe I'll also add a smooth Bertram ride...
Small flybridge- Yup, but I ain't got No fly bridge (LOL). However, I'll agree the original is kid size, but it does look great!

Its also lacks storage and has dated Formica wood grain panels. But now I'm just nit picking.

[Ironworker]

Even with all it's short comings the B31 dang sure beats a center console! I fished on a 37' Freeman a couple of weeks ago. The capt only new one speed, WOT. The Freeman motto is "if you're getting beat up, then speed up!" But even fishing on a $1,300,000 boat its still just a center console. I'd much rather fish on my B31.

[Yannis]

Rick,

I would never have thought that the flap adjusters could be linked to the swim platform!
I would personally avoid it as a harder than ordinary stern hit on the dock might or would change the angle and therefore their efficacy?

[Ironworker]

Rick,

I would never have thought that the flap adjusters could be linked to the swim platform!
I would personally avoid it as a harder than ordinary stern hit on the dock might or would change the angle and therefore their efficacy?

In a way you are correct. I had some serious doubts about locating them there, So, I way over reinforced the swim platform. I could very likely lift the entire boat just by the swim platform

In my original build thread "Carolina Reaper", I asked the question about the necessity of trim tabs. I should have followed the advice on the forum. I very rarely use the tabs. I installed them primarily because of the best reason in the world. While I'm working on the boat, I might as well....

[Ironworker]

Yannis,

Thats gives me an idea for another topic that might be considered by others. The Swim Platform.

[Carl]

Swim platform...ugh.

I was yup you go "On The Fence" about a swim platform for years. I didn't want, the Mrs did, I liked the transom clear...but then came trim tabs and figured what the hell. I looked for one, couldn't find. Custom was dumb money to me at the time. I'm not a wood worker to make, though about making from glass. Too much work...figured maybe adapt one. A buddy with a 32 Luhrs had one that looked ez enough to make work and I looked for one from a 32 Luhrs...asked a bunch of people. Time goes by, my boats not in water after Sandy and I get one platform from a bud whose boat was totaled and a couple years later another bud stops by with a platform for a 32 luhrs he just bought but didn't want it.

Now I have two platforms and the club I'm in has a strict rule about going over size, nothing can protrude past piling. I have a 32' slip and platform won't fit. Next size slip up can be many year wait. And that's my boring story about a swim platform. ugh.

[Preston Burrows]

I'm not seeing any mention here yet of the fact that the original B31's mold was a 2 part mold cast from the original wooden hull less its 'spray rail' chines, the mold was later re-worked as it was not exactly symmetrical [presumably as a 1 part mold cast off an already molded hull which was then shaped up some so as to be symmetrical.]

I wonder where all of Bertrams molds are for their classics, B20,B26,B28,B31,B35,B38,B42,B46,B50 etc. ended up?

I heard alot of their 'spares' went to a company in France sometime just before the Italian buy out.

[Yannis]

Swim platform. The single most precious item on a boat, after a solar ice making freezer/refrigerator!

[SteveM]

I figure, I'm out on a boat...I'm gonna get a little wet.