Why doesn't everybody want one?

[Ironworker]

I was shopping around the Earley Bird to some friends and one of my friends asked the above question after he looked at the specs and read the history and reviews online about 31 Bertrams. So I'm going to put this question to the group? This question prompted this thread.

Will do. Still disappointing the prices on boat trader are continuing to drop. A friend of mine just spent $240,000 on a used 30' Contender. Can you imagine how fine a $240,000 Bertram 31 would be? I don't get it...

First to answer the question, boats, airplanes, and other expensive toys are highly subject to the economy and interest rates. Regarding a $240,000 Bertram, yes I can. I completely rebuilt my boat. I spent somewhere between $400,000 and $450,000 not including my family and friends labor on the boat. Had the labor been included, I'd likely could have been looking at $700,000 to $800,000 on a 1969 31 Bertram.

Secondly lets talk about the big picture. I spent a little time with L&H Boats in Stuart, FL discussing various Bertram renovations at the Palm Beach Boat show last week. He has done a number of renovations on these boats (most are on YouTube). He asked me about the cost of the Fly N Fish renovation and he said I got a bargain. His cost to do a complete 31 Bertram renovation would be north of $1 Million. He was showing a 20 Bertram and a 25 Bertram that were the stars of the Palm Beach Boat show (on YouTube). Neither of these boats were for sale but he had numerous offers for them.

Why? Well he said that it was because it was a boat that no one else had. Anybody with cash or credit could buy a new boat but owning a modernized classic was a prized possession.

Now the other side of the picture. There was a Boat Talk episode on YouTube a couple of months ago where they were discussing the economics of repowering boats including specifically 31 Bertrams. These people are in the repowering business!!!! Their take was that is just was not economically feasible today to repower a boat unless you had an unlimited budget and plenty of time. There are just not many people in that category in the US these days. The middle class has mostly been hollowed out.

Now functionally and aesthetically, an $800K 31 Bertram vs a $650K 31 Contender is not even a comparison IMO. The 31 Bertram is a much superior boat for my purposes. But knowing what I know now, would I spend another 3 years of my time renovating a boat or write a check for $650K and just go fishing? I'm going to have to think about that for awhile.

What are your thoughts?

[Yannis]

Interesting...

What's also very interesting, is the exorbitant amounts that you guys pay in the US for anything labor related.
So, why any "fishing ready" boat, like a perfectly refurbished B31, is not an alternative to any new crap boat that just requires writing a check to own?
Why is any investment towards renovating any old boat considered guaranteed loss of money? I understand that one may never get all their money back, but getting just a small fraction back is difficult to grasp.

Over here, people spend north of €200-300K for a 10-12 meter inflatable, with at least two huge outboards, that depreciates faster than lightning, but they don't spend half of that for any refurbished Bertram or similar...
Is it that the allure of a Classic possession is not compelling anymore? Is it that one can show off better in a modern inflatable? Is it speed? Perhaps practicality? Or running costs?
Or is it just that an old, however well kept old boat, will always be an old boat and therefore an out of fashion commodity?

[Craig Mac]

Can't seem to find the videos---anybody have a link?



He was showing a 20 Bertram and a 25 Bertram that were the stars of the Palm Beach Boat show (on YouTube).

[Ironworker]

Can't seem to find the videos---anybody have a link?



He was showing a 20 Bertram and a 25 Bertram that were the stars of the Palm Beach Boat show (on YouTube).

Here you go...

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlo ... reserved=0

[mike ohlstein]

Interesting...

What's also very interesting, is the exorbitant amounts that you guys pay in the US for anything labor related.
So, why any "fishing ready" boat, like a perfectly refurbished B31, is not an alternative to any new crap boat that just requires writing a check to own?
Why is any investment towards renovating any old boat considered guaranteed loss of money? I understand that one may never get all their money back, but getting just a small fraction back is difficult to grasp.

Over here, people spend north of €200-300K for a 10-12 meter inflatable, with at least two huge outboards, that depreciates faster than lightning, but they don't spend half of that for any refurbished Bertram or similar...
Is it that the allure of a Classic possession is not compelling anymore? Is it that one can show off better in a modern inflatable? Is it speed? Perhaps practicality? Or running costs?
Or is it just that an old, however well kept old boat, will always be an old boat and therefore an out of fashion commodity?

The word Classic incorporates the word Class. Unfortunately, that's something that not many of our youth today possess or appreciate. Today's heroes are selling something that is a word that is incorporated in Class. Just drop the 'cl' and tune into OnlyFans.......

I'm glad to have lived in the age that I did. The movie Idiocracy isn't a dystopian allegory, it's all around us.

[Yannis]

Mike don't bother, let them spend on frills while we appreciate our boats.

[Ironworker]

Here is an interesting video on the state of the Boating industry in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWAnpowq-x0&t=841s

[Carl]

At the end of the day it is an old boat with quirks. Small bridge, small cabin, limited storage, and they are old. Sure rebuild it all, and then comes the question was it done right or will it need to be tackled again. Banks do not want to finance them, insurance companies do not want to insure them. Did I mention it's an old boat...yes many fisherman, especially the more seasoned know these boats very well and admire. But today, the crowd looking to impress their people...the 31 is an old boat, even restored/rebuilt. Today its big center consoles with several huge outboards and Sea keepers that get the attention. If you can't afford big with several, big as possible with as many ponies as the payments allow.

Every boat seems to take a hit when the time to sell comes around. A restored/rebuild is a hard sell for anything close to money laid out in rebuild/restore. Plus laying all that coin out for a custom and its not custom to buyers wants. I think that is why the 31 does not command the big bucks on the market.

That said, how many boats sell for more then the price paid Brand new.

[Ironworker]

That said, how many boats sell for more then the price paid Brand new.

Damn few. I was happily watching TV one Sunday afternoon and I got a call from a guy who wanted to buy my Grady White. I really hadn't thought about selling it but I'd had it for 5 years and had mentioned to a couple of buddies that I was thinking about upgrading. I met the guy at the dock, rode around for 15 minutes and he asked how much I wanted. I asked the amount that I had paid for the boat brand new and he accepted.

I thought I had gotten a heckva of a price until I went shopping for new boats. That guy had gotten a really good deal.

[Tony Meola]

It is unbelievable what an open check book can do. You create a one-of-a-kind boat. Even if it is old it is cool. Someone spent a fortune turning the boat into exactly what they always wanted.

The problem is, when it is time to sell, can you find someone who appreciates it. It is not as fast as those triple outboard boats. Speed is where it is at for the current crowd.

I remember when our 31 was new, twin 350 Mercruisers, it outran everything we ever came across. Today it is considered slow with a 24 to 25 knot cruise.

The difference shows when I can run in stuff others can't. Even a few bigger boats sometimes have a harder time than I do. But I will crank it down so the ride is comfortable. I am getting too old to take a beating. A 50 MPH boat just doesn't appeal to me. Did I mention I am old.

Young people just can't appreciate the same things we do.

If I could afford an open check book refit, would I do it. I sure would, but I also realize I will not get my money back out of it. But it is for me and my pleasure so if I could afford it I wouldn't care.

When I repowered back in 2009-2010, I started out with a quote of $38,000 for the engines and transmissions. I stopped counting after a point and just closed my eyes and said I will figure it out later. I still have not tried to figure it out after all of these years.

I have enjoyed the repower. It was worth it whatever it was. That is the name of the game, is it worth it to you.

[Ironworker]

None of us are going to die and take anything with us, well except my Grandmother and she to her trusty old 410 Shotgun.

Our 31's will run with the best of them with outboards. L&H says that a 31 with an outboard bracket will run 53 mph with twin 300s outboards. I'd bet that the ride would not be nearly as good as with twin diesels.

I'll go further to say that a 31 Betram is far superior to any CC under 45'.

[franzmerenda]

In 2005 I bought a Hatteras 50 for €250,000. At the time the euro was sitting at 1.30 against the dollar, so in real terms that was serious money either way. I spent the next thirteen months refitting her — January 2006 to April 2007. Another €300,000. No repower: she had twin Detroit Diesel 12-cylinders, 900hp each. I kept them, but nothing was left untouched — full service, repainted, all systems renewed, and the engine room rebuilt stem to stern. The day she went back in the water she looked and felt like a palace. A one-of-a-kind. An absolute masterpiece.

She also weighed 30 tons, barely made 20/21 knots cruise, and burned 250 liters an hour.

A slightly crazy man of means fell in love with her — as you would, she was genuinely beautiful — and paid me €600,000. I recovered the purchase and the refit. Not the two cars I wore out driving back and forth to the yard. Not the thousand small rivers of cash that disappear in any serious refurbishment and never make it onto any spreadsheet.

I bought my Bertram 31 on November 2023. She went into the yard on late December and she's still there. Full rebuild. I've already spent roughly what I spent on the Hatteras refit, and I know I'll spend more. My target splashdown: April 2027. Exactly twenty years to the day after the Hatteras.

Here's what I know for certain: a refit that cost X in 2005 costs 3X to 4X today. The work is the same. The product is the same. The world around it is not.

9/11, Lehman, Covid — and whatever this current wave of collective madness turns out to be. Purchasing power hasn't eroded, it's been surgically removed. Wealth has been concentrated at a level where the idea of building something real with your own hands and your own money, and coming out ahead, belongs to a different era.

I'm not complaining. I'm still here, still swinging, still putting a Bertram 31 back together one piece at a time. But I do keep meticulous accounts this time around. Not because it'll change anything. Just so I know — to the last cent — exactly what it cost me to do something I love.

Worth it? Ask me on April 2027...

[Ironworker]

Franz

Two things I'd highly recommend, extend the outer chines 1.5 inches (spray rails) and widen the fly bridge 17 to 18". Both will change the boat in immense ways.

[Amberjack]

We are no different than others when it comes to spending our money foolishly. Think of all the gazebos, fire pits, hot tubs, swimming pools that have been installed in your neighborhood. Do they increase the value of the house? Unknown. Are they used? Occasionally, with the frequency of use falling off as the months go by and newness wears off. At least we use and enjoy our boats.

[Tony Meola]

None of us are going to die and take anything with us, well except my Grandmother and she to her trusty old 410 Shotgun.

Our 31's will run with the best of them with outboards. L&H says that a 31 with an outboard bracket will run 53 mph with twin 300s outboards. I'd bet that the ride would not be nearly as good as with twin diesels.

I'll go further to say that a 31 Betram is far superior to any CC under 45'.

Rick

I agree with you but there are those that just don't know and will argue with us about this until the end of time.