Bertram's 35, 37 and 38 Comparison

[Po-Boy]

I have been looking around for solid side by side comparisons of these 3 hulls built in 70s and 80's and have not found too much so I figured I would strike up topic on here I can come up with. I am not necessarily in the market to buy any of these boats at the moment but would like to eventually step up in size and upgrade from my current B28 in the next 3-5 years. Don't get me wrong, I love my little B28 and its perfect for me and my buddies for overnight fishing trips but at the end of the day its not what I would call ideal, esp for a family day cruises or overnight trips with the wife and kids due to limited room in the cabin and limited storage.

I know very little about the 35, 37 and 38 hulls other than what I have been told and by a few I know that's owned 35's. With that said, I am basically looking for the major pros and cons of each and just an all around side by side comparison of the 3. I will start with what I do like/dislike about each.

The 35, from all I have always been told, is an excellent hull in rough seas and great overall performance. What I don't like about the 35 is the cabin (more specifically the salon). Its just a kind of plain looking and bare IMO and the layout is ugly when compared to something like the 37. How does the 35 compare to the 37 and 38 when it comes to ride and performance?

The Bertram 37 has the best cabin layout IMO. Its roomy and I love the layout of the couches and galley. Its seems like it can sit more people (comfortably) when cruising with family and friends. What I don't like about the 37 is its lines. It has that ugly angled step down of the bow flare at mid-ship. Although this is something I could live with, it just looks like retro 80's to me. I don't have much knowledge if the 37 so any info would be great.

The Bertram 38 is the best looking of the 3 IMO as I love its curves. The downside to the 38 is the cabin/salon (in all the 38's I have looked at) seems to be very plain and very similar to the 35. How do the 37 and 38 compare in ride and performance?

[bob lico]

are you pulling my leg??? did you see all three of these boats OUT of the water? no contest 38' is a Raymond Hunt design and is entirely laid up in F/G, no core. 38' Bertram is a 31' Bertram stetch seven feet with the added benefit of a keel.------no contest!!!!!!

[Po-Boy]

are you pulling my leg??? did you see all three of these boats OUT of the water? no contest 38' is a Raymond Hunt design and is entirely laid up in F/G, no core. 38' Bertram is a 31' Bertram stetch seven feet with the added benefit of a keel.------no contest!!!!!!

NOPE... not pulling your leg bud... and NOPE, have never seen any of these boats out of water. As mentioned in the OP, I know very little of the 3 hulls. I don't know the history, designers or anything about the hulls so please excuse my ignorance on the subject. But from your response, it sounds to me that they are not even in the same ball park to make a comparison... Thanks for the response.

[Carl]

Aside from what you are talking in terms of looks, ride and performance when you jump up in size your cost of ownership can go up a good amount too.

The obvious is fuel burn, then dockage, winter storage...but thinking with a moniker of Po-Boy that may not be an issue. The other things are repair bills and general upkeep. Days of an oil change being pocket change will be over, instead of a case of oil your talking buckets of premium.

[bob lico]

most Bertram people engage in Bertram talks at the dock or when they travel and find another Bertram at the dock. This is the best and only real way of learning the "plus and minus" factors that is needed to make a decision based on real owners experience.You own a 28" Bertram do you ever talk with 37', 38' Bertram owners? the interior of a boat should not be a factor (other than a step- down galley) it can be made to your exact specification some designs are for fishing and some family,entertaining.we have a lumber yard on long island that will sell you book- matched teak veneered in 4'x8' . easy job to cul in half and laminate on existing wood grain formica,looks like a million bucks. disregard the existing seventies cabin floor they sell beautiful woodgrain W/P laminate that snap together.the new 61 Bertram has one.most important is the hull lay-up ,dead rise, keel, placement of fuel tank,fresh water tank,generator. this is the balance that will be affected by a ton of weight you will replace when you repower.the 38' Bertram is the perfect candidate for repower because the engine room is center of the balance factor and finish product will have a perfect bow proud ride.

[Bertramp]

Bob Lico .... not sure that you are both discussing the same 38 .... he is probably not thinking the earlier 38 wide-body

[Tommy]

I agree with Bob that the Ray Hunt “wide body” Bertram 38 built from 1970-75 is the cream of the crop (a 31 on steroids), but as Bertramp pointed out, the ‘76 and later 38s were not Hunt designs (they are Napier designs) and are almost a foot narrower in the beam and not a continuous deep-V but a modified V. Po-boy, you came to the right place for a lively discussion on the topic. Carl and Bob are spot on: everything is a trade off, and economics play a big role. I fished a lot on the B-35 and it is a great performing 35 footer; and as Bob stated you can customize the salon. Most Bertram owners enjoy showing their boats to fellow boaters, so look for those opportunities. Check Yayctworld and Boats.com and see if any are listed near you. Whether the 35, 37 or any of the versions of the 38, I believe you would be satisfied if you found a clean unit with reasonably fresh power. Enjoy the hunt, it’s half the fun!

[Tony Meola]

I have fished on both a 35 and a 38. Unfortunately the 35 I was on we fished on a perfectly flat day off of Kona. The 38 I was on several times and once is 5 to 6 footers. I was surprised how the movement of the 38 reminded of how my 31 reacts. While I love the 35 if I could afford it I would go to the 38.

Now someone help me out here. Was it not the 38 that certain years had a big bulge in the hull to accommodate the transmissions? Or was that certain years of the 35?

I will tell you one thing, if you plan on really fishing any of them and expect you might get caught offshore in a really heavy see, think about glassing in the front windows. I met a guy who owned a 38 that had a wave blow out the front windows. He said it caused the bridge to start to collapse on him. He was able to brace it up and continue home in weather that would have stopped other boats.

Any boat with a lot of glass forward have that one big weakness.

You would not be dissapointed in either the 35 or the 38. As Bob said you can always redo the interior.

[bob lico]

You would replace the front windshield with solid glass lay up and gain a huge cabinet area inside on either side of the steps going down into the states room.Perhaps i with take photo`s of the 38' i am working on with accordian teak doors on both port and starboard.the boat i am referring to is a 38' Bertram i have had out in 12' head seas and one time from Hudson Canyon to New Jersey coast in 55mphwinds and head 12'seas and i kept her on plane!

[Tommy]

Summary Specifications:

Bertram 35 (1970-86): LOA: 35' 4" Beam: 13' 3" Weight: 22,500# Designer: Dave Napier

Bertram 37 (1986-93): LOA: 37'9" Beam: 13'3" Weight: 32,410# Designer: Dave Napier

Bertram 38 (1970-76): LOA: 37'8" Beam: 14'5" Weight: 26,000# Designer: Ray Hunt

Bertram 38 III (1978-86): LOA: 38'5" Beam: 13'3" Weight: 30,400# Designer: Dave Napier

I don't know why the early version "widebody" 38 is lighter except that there were minimal amenities offered early on and they were simply sparse fishing machines, not a lot of creature comforts. But it is my favorite of all the mid-size Bertrams. As you can see, Bertram discontinued the B-38 after the 1986 production year (with the exception of the 38 Special which they produced in '86-'87), and it was replaced with the B-37 with the same beam as the B-38 III but with 3 more inches of LOA and 2,000 more pounds. So although it's called a "37", it's actually just the updated model of the "38 III".

Source: McKnew/Parker Consumer's Guide to Sportfishing Boats

Here's a little writeup on the B-38 that appeared in Soundings Magazine several years back:

Bertram 38 BACKGROUND

The Bertram name is legendary in yachting. Dick Bertram was a world-class sailor and powerboat racer who popularized Ray Hunt’s then-radical deep-vee hull in the late 1950s and early ’60s. The Bertram 31, which he designed using Hunt’s hull shape, is considered one of the best powerboats ever. The 38 Convertible saw three incarnations. It was introduced in the late ’60s, revised in the early ’70s, and reprised once more as the 38 III Convertible in the late ’70s. In all, it was produced in one version or another for some 20 years, amassing a devoted fan base. It’s noted for its blend of comfort and performance, and well more than 300 were sold during its production run.




SPECIFICATIONS on 1970-76 Model:

LOA: 38 feet

BEAM: 14 feet, 5 inches

DRAFT: 3 feet, 6 inches

WEIGHT: 26,000 pounds

HULL TYPE: deep-vee

POWER: twin inboards

(gas or diesel)

TANKAGE: 350 gallons fuel,

100 gallons water

[John F.]

They're all very different boats. The 35 interior and flybridge layouts changed in 1981, with the FB offering "tournament" seating (a bench seat forward of the helm/controls). The 35s in the early 80s came with 3208 Cats with, I think, 320 hp, and moved along nicely (also came as gassers). I've seen quite a few repowered with Cummins 6btas at 315/330 hp, and they seem to have good numbers. Charlie Haws that used to be on here has/had a nice 1981 or so B35 with 3208s. He knows a lot about them. The B35s with 3208s had bulges in their hull to get the motors/gears in.

The B38s are 2 entirely different boats. As pointed out, the older 38 "wide-body" is a Hunt design deep-V, and looks a lot like a stretched B35. Bob is referring to the early B38. The later 38s are entirely different--hull, topsides, everything. Tom Ward that used to be on here redid a later B38 he had brought down from the Great Lakes that was beautiful. He had the v-berth redone to be like a B37 (queen instead of v-berth). It was great.

I didn't know that the B37 and later B38s shared the hull. Learn something new every day. I personally really like the look of the B37. Some of those came with 3208s at 375 hp, and some with bigger DDs. If I move up, I may look for a Cummins-repowered B35 or B37. But, my B31 does just fine for now and is really good on fuel.

Again, they're all very different boats. The B35 seems to be the easiest to push of the 4 (B35, B37, and two B38s), and I really like the way they ride. I've never fished the 38s or 37s, but I doubt they'd push well with a 6bta at 315/330 hp.

Enjoy the search. Or get a B31

[bob lico]

Tommy, you are the best!! Really you take the guesswork out of many conversations (he said,she said,I have a friend who said). i will make an outrageous statement and then I will try to explain ; it is much easier to convert the 38' cabin interior then it is to redo the 31Bertram interior !!!!!
Opon entering the 31' FBC you will see an 8" step on the port side. Phoenix has the battery charger in back of forward drawer,follow by the boat tool compartment under the table hatch and the electrical distribution area in back of the other drawer. these are all essential to the boat so i could not redesign. the galley was a differant story there is 9" of precious floor space wasted in the galley,so i gain so much needed floor space by moving the galley right to to interior hull side. the 38' Bertram is huge when strip to the walls with the entertainment cabinet and liquior cabinet built under the windshield.you have a all kinds of room under the cabin floor and easily place any type of furniture for whatever makes you happy.38' is a fabulous boat to work on with plenty of cabin space.i am referring to the 38' wide body.

[Carl]

Bob-

I think your right and don't think that is much of an outrageous statement.

The 31 cabin is so tightly packed you can't make a mistake and not have it in your face. Each feature of our boats flows right into the next so you not only design one item the the items on both sides of it need to coincide.

A larger cabin gives you room to fudge a blunder or come up with a super eye catcher item that draws your attention that way.

[Yannis]

If you have a 28 there is no need to go to a 31. Why would you need to reduce your spacious cabin space? Why reduce your deadrise?
Why go to the 37 or 38 and dramatically increase your costs?
Make the 28 fit your family. In the 28 you can do it economically, you can also do it better in the 37 or 38 but it will cost you.
You cannot do it in the 31, there’s simply not the space for two double beds lengthwise and widthwise, as in a 28.
The bigger 37 and 38 ones are a firm financial decision by themselves. And whether a 37 over a 38, or, which 38, the Napier’s one or the Hunt’s one, is becoming to be a sentimental decision.
The only B. I would go to after the 28, only for space, not for anything else, is the magnanimus 33 fb, but I dont do it because I prefer the shape of the 33 sportfish, which, unfortunately has about the same cabin space as the 28.
So, I stay with the 28.
In case you might not have noticed I believe the 28 is, by far, the wisest small Bertram.
Perhaps that’s why it sold more than any other in the history of Bertram.

[bob lico]

carl i try to think in the third dimention ,the ceiling area in front of that cabinet i mention in previous post of 38' is empty above because it is under console so we will have a 42" flat screen tv come down from ceiling and go back into ceiling to gain access to cabinet built under windsheild.you can make all kinds of inovations on a 38".

[Carl]

Yup, saw a projection TV like that years ago.
Projector was built into headliner with screen coming down at other end of salon.


How far we have come...cutting edge on my last boat was a 2-1/2" Black and White TV that plugged into a cigarette lighter when batteries died.

Now my cell phone has internet with movies, TV (in color of course), Bluetooth for tunes, stores music for hours and hours, a rechargeable battery that lasts all day, it txts, does face time, GPS with navigation charts or road maps on land, has weather station with radar, can be used to measure, has a flashlight and a level PLUS it also makes phone calls. All that and it takes up less space then a wallet in your pocket.

[John Swick]

"In case you might not have noticed I believe the 28 is, by far, the wisest small Bertram.
Perhaps that’s why it sold more than any other in the history of Bertram."

Careful, I remember the days when they referred to as "ass dragin' hyena boats"

[Yannis]

Ha, ha, yes, those who didn’t own one!
Also, it is worth noting that ever since those old gas engines were scrapped and substituted by modern more powerful diesels, the hyena look is only found in picture albums!

[Tommy]

Correction, as I misstated the relative LOA of the three models being discussed. The '70-'76 "Widebody B-38 has an LOA of 37' 8". The B-37 is an inch longer (not 3") in LOA at 37' 9". The B-38 III has an LOI of 38' 5".
As stated, the B-38 III and the B-37 both have a beam of 13' 3". I have not been able to confirm if both models have the same hull design, meaning if the same molds were used, but it would make sense that they are.

Math was never my strong suit.........

[DanielM]

Guys,

I know this is an old thread but I thought it would be a good place to ask a question and document the responses.

I know the B37 was cored below the water line, I’m quite sure the 70-76 wide body B38s were solid fiberglass below the water line. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

What about the B35? (1970-1986) and the B38 III (1978-86) did any of those hulls have cored hulls below the water line or were they all solid fiberglass below the water line?


Thanks in advance,

Danny

[Tony Meola]

Daniel

I always understood that the 35 and 38 all had solid fiberglass. I think the cored hulls started when they dropped the 35 and 38.

[DanielM]

Thanks Tony. That’s what I thought.

I was a little worried if they might have made a manufacturing change on either the 35 or 38 in the eighties and started coring on those models but I guess not.

I’m looking at a couple eighties model boats (a 35 and a 38) and was wondering if they had any of those worries.

[Yannis]

Daniel,

If you can turn the down below port-side storage area (some have a hanging locker, some have drawers and some storage with a small settee) into a second cabin, the 35 is perfect. You might have to move the oven from where it is, so as to give that space to the new cabin.
I was seriously contemplating this project, but then I realized I lack the courage to go through a major carpentry work plus the associated expenses for a second time...so I remain with my 28!

[DanielM]

Yannis,

From what I have read, boat modifications are just an easy equation of time, money, and patience. If you’re short on one better be long on the other two. Go for it! lol.

The little port day bed/settee looks pretty handy but on my boat it would wind up being a place for odds and ends to wind up.

The 86 B35 looks to have all the bells and whistles and still can be well powered with 6bta Cummins engines.

[Tony Meola]

Daniel

I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Both are well proven sea boats. The only thing I would worry about is blowing out the front windows in a heavy sea. Same as for the 31 but from stories I have heard from people, it is safe to say those with the 35 and 38 push the envelop a little harder when it comes to weather.

[Yannis]

Danny, I'm short in all three.
Which will not change, as I realize that I'm so very happy with what I have...

Still though, I cannot deprive myself from dreaming a 35, not a 38, but the 28 will do just fine for the time being, when I will no longer be able to pull ropes I will sell it and buy a campervan with a 3,80m inflatable with a 15hp, on the roof!
I will still enjoy the sea from a different perspective, ha!

[DanielM]

Tony,

I think my pushing the envelop days are behind me. If this were to work out it would be a little diving, a little fishing, and mostly cruising/pleasure boating. (Howdy boating) The only heavy seas I would be in would be if I missed the forecast and I was hitting it hard to get back to port.

I’m actually pretty inexperienced at the helm off shore. For as long as I’ve been messing around with all my project boats, most of my time has been on someone else’s offshore rig, a paid charter, or on my bay boat. I was just getting the Chris Craft lined out after the big redo so many years ago when the fuel tank delaminated and it went on blocks in the shop. Life took some turns and the next thing I knew 10 or 12 years had gone by. Just now trying to figure my way back into offshore. Always too many irons in the fire.

But my runs should be relatively easy in the future as we bought a small place in SE Florida a few years ago and the runs will be short. I’m a fair weather sailor. I admire you guys making the run out to the canyons up in the NE.



Yannis,

It does my heart good to read your posts and see how dialed in you are on how you use and enjoy your boat. I’m enjoying life but I’m all over the map on boating.

I thought I had it figured out last year, I bought a couple running takeout Cummins 6bta engines to put back in my Chris Craft. Just as I started down that path the property next to my shop became available and we bought that, so boating went back on the back burner for another year. I’m just now getting back to thinking about what to do with the boats and boating. Right now we’re thinking about biting the bullet and buying a running one.

For me it’s all about being on, in, under, or just adjacent to the water. Just sitting on my pier makes me happy. The boats I’ll figure out as I go.

[Yannis]

Danny, sitting on the pier is the most economical way to admire a boat.
Also, every now and then, someone who you know or just discuss with, may even invite you onboard for drinks or what have you. Or he may need a deck hand and take you along on a short trip.
Whenever my boat is on the hard I sit on the pier too!

[Tony Meola]

Danny

Speaking of the Chris, I went pass Greg's boat a week ago. He was not there but he is so close. He should launch this spring. It may have taken him 15 years but he built a really nice rig.

If I see him, I have to get him to come back on the site and post up pictures. At least I hope he has taken pictures, before and after.

[DanielM]

I talked with Greg about 2 years ago and he sent me some pictures. It is astounding how well the lines on his boat turned out as an express. The lines of the tower really complement the way he set it up. It’s a sweet boat. Glad he’s getting close, these things are a labor of love for sure. Tell him 'hi' for me.

[Carl]

For me it’s all about being on, in, under, or just adjacent to the water. Just sitting on my pier makes me happy. The boats I’ll figure out as I go.

That about sums up my needs for a boat...be closer to and be on the water. I only tolerate working on a boat as it gets me to where I want to be...on the water. The idea of buying a project boat does not interest me, I did my project to keep my boat reliable into the future, and reduce operating costs a tad more speed and range were icing on the cake.
Funny as I think we are similar and I believe the same holds true for my family. We enjoy the boat. My wife kayaks, sometimes I borrow one and join her. Waverunner got the kids down a few times. Most of our vacations are based around water, riverside or lakeside camping. Mountains with a lake view and rent a boat. Cruise n get off to go swimming. Tropics to sit on a beach. This year we did one non water trip and that was to visit friends in Vegas, friends we met boating. Anyway, it didn't take long before we found a boat rental place and then spent the day on the water...in a desert. I walk my dog on the beach every weekend...hes the odd one out, this dog hates the water, loves the beach, hates the water. But our last dog...take him fishing and he had to go in...so the long retractable leash tethered to his life preserver and over the side he went....swam with tail wagging not wanting to come back in.

Anyway, my vote ( in a matter that does not involve me in the slightest) would be to get something running to get out on the water...save the project for days the weather doesn't cooperate.

[Yannis]

Carl,

This is a typical 60's commercial!!!!! LOL