Buy or pass

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 24th, '22, 22:39

There's a 31 on yacht world pretty cheap.
Needs work. I like the price but im in florida, boat is in new jersey. So shipping adds a chunk, and i cant go look at it. Anyone want to volunteer to kick wheels on this and let me know if its a diamond in the ruff, and buy or pass?

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 25th, '22, 00:03

The Perkins powered express says there's a sale pending.....

Is it that one?

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 25th, '22, 06:22

Sorry, i said new jersey, its actually st Mary's city, Maryland.
The name on the transom is "endymion"
Looks like the shipping is going to be around $4,000.00.
It looks like its a little rough, but its complete and all together, and the layout im looking for( dual station, no head, no rear bulkhead).
If it was in florida, i'd probly just buy it and be happy, but paying 4 grand over asking price, for the delivery, makes me question the value of the boat.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Mar 25th, '22, 07:29

I saw "Endymion" and had to look it up as it sounded overly Greek to me, but had never heard of the name.
So, this guy, Endymion (intonation on the -i) is a relatively unknown figure of the Greek mythology and was a king of Ilis.
To choose such a peculiar name it may have to do with someone of Greek origin?
Therefore, if that's the case, I could give you a hand in bargaining for you...you never know.
Let me know if my theory is correct!

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Mar 25th, '22, 16:08

From the pictures it looks pretty rough - but for 19,000 it is what it is. It has gassers - which for the most part you can get parts from your local NAPA store.

I would think that $19K is probably the bottom of the bell curve for what you would pay for a B31 that floats and that has engines in it (there is a stripped local one that they have been asking 24K) So you get what you get.

You are saving some money on shipping because they have already winterized and moved the hard top to the cabin sole. (or at least looks that way from the pictures) It looks like it is all there - if you are up for a Major project...

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1969-b ... r-8207121/

I just bought a 77 - so still getting alerts all over the place.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 26th, '22, 07:36

Agreed on all points.
Id like to go check it out in person, to make the judgment call, whether or not is too major of a project, but its too far for that.
I was looking for some insight and other perspectives from the good people on this board.

The project aspect of it, is actually what I'm looking for.
It keeps the initial price down so i have some budget left for the things I'd like to add or modify myself.

Cleaning, painting, sanding, cosmetic stuff doesn't bother me.
A surprise failure from a previous owner's incorrectly repaired hull damage is what im trying to avoid.

Id rather have one that's been sunk and hauled out, than one that's been run aground, with a hack job hull repair in the critical areas. Struts, rudders, etc.

Ive been on 2 boats that almost went down. One with 3 generations of my family on board, grandparents, parents and kids. Both hull failures due to an unknown repair and incompetent fiberglass work.
Thats the kind of thing id like to see before i pay 4g's to have it delivered, and then see it.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Mar 26th, '22, 08:25

Geebert wrote: ↑Mar 24th, '22, 22:39 There's a 31 on yacht world pretty cheap.
Needs work. I like the price but im in florida, boat is in new jersey. So shipping adds a chunk, and i cant go look at it. Anyone want to volunteer to kick wheels on this and let me know if its a diamond in the ruff, and buy or pass?

This is roughly the same model and year boat that I have. After looking at the photos, you're in for a lot more work than sanding, cleaning and polishing. My guess is the stringers and most of the wood has rotted, likely the engines will need to be replaced. The windows will likely have to be removed and/or removed and rebedded.

I was given my boat by a friend who had the boat in two different yards for 13 years. He finally gave up on the project and gave the boat to me. It had some old Volvo diesels which ran but I too am planning on taking my boat to S. Florida and the Bahamas and did not feel comfortable with old engines. Once I removed the engines, I realized just how pervasive the rot is in these boats. I basically took mine down to the hull and now building it back. Working on the stringers today.

BTW, between myself and my friend we will have collectively spent roughly $275K plus on renovating this boat and I'm doing the most of the labor.

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Mar 26th, '22, 14:08

Rick is telling it like it is. I have 25 years in on Amberjack and two bulging file folders of receipts which are probably not far off $275K. The boat was serviceable but rough when I bought it so we used it during the season and did projects over the winter. It is always surprising how much longer things take and how much more you wind up spending to finish them.

Those photos are showing only the best of the boat. If it looks rough in the photos it is a lot rougher outside the frame.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 26th, '22, 14:39

Ironworker wrote: ↑Mar 26th, '22, 08:25

BTW, between myself and my friend we will have collectively spent roughly $275K plus on renovating this boat and I'm doing the most of the labor.

You've spent $275,000, have used engines, and still don't have stringers?
Mabe project boats aren't your forte?

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 26th, '22, 17:34

Not uncommon to what Ric is doing to Reaper, to spend that amount. His 275k figure is one when he will be done.

Back in the hey day of 31 refits I know of at least 5 31's who's total expenditure was above 350k.
I surveyed and sea trialed one who's owner had 450k in it.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Mar 26th, '22, 18:31

Geebert wrote: ↑Mar 26th, '22, 14:39 You've spent $275,000, have used engines, and still don't have stringers?
Mabe project boats aren't your forte?

I can assure you that if I knew now when I was offered the boat, I'd just have spent the money on a boat already renovated. But at $275K when the boat is completed is about half of what a comparable new boat would cost. I'm OK with that. Plus my boat will be built much better than any production boat built.

If you think a little wax and sanding will solve the problems go for it. I like those wrap around windows.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 26th, '22, 21:08

Ironworker wrote: ↑Mar 26th, '22, 18:31But at $275K when the boat is completed is about half of what a comparable new boat would cost. I'm OK with that. Plus my boat will be built much better than any production boat built.

All good points.
No doubt $275k will produce a fine fully restored beauty, i just don't think thats the entry fee to run an old boat.

Structurally sound, reasonably dependable power, and im going fishing. Ive got plenty of time to make it pretty, cause once i get one, im not selling it, it's getting passed down.

Ironworker · Post by **Ironworker** » Mar 26th, '22, 21:19

Geebert wrote: ↑Mar 26th, '22, 21:08 All good points.
No doubt $275k will produce a fine fully restored beauty, i just don't think thats the entry fee to run an old boat.

Structurally sound, reasonably dependable power, and im going fishing. Ive got plenty of time to make it pretty, cause once i get one, im not selling it, it's getting passed down.

I'm not arguing with you nor trying to talk you out of buying the boat. I'm just passing along my experience. I could have easily put $75K to $100K into an old boat with structural deficiencies and IMO the investment would have been wasted in a few years. Once you decide to invest some serious money then the decision has to be made to correct the structural issues. Every 50 year old boat will have them. Bertrams have held up better than most but they are subject to the same laws of Physics as the rest of the world.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Mar 27th, '22, 12:37

Ironworker wrote: ↑Mar 26th, '22, 21:19 Every 50 year old boat will have them. Bertrams have held up better than most but they are subject to the same laws of Physics as the rest of the world.

Understood.
Appreciate your insight.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 30th, '22, 22:25

It is easy to just drop $100,000 just replacing the engines, bulkhead behind the engines, steering, shaft logs and on and on.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 31st, '22, 06:41

I'm going to lean the other way a bit.

Structural on the 31 Bertram is usually not the stringers...the wood inside was only a form its the glass encasing that wood that IS the structure.

The boat can run without bulkheads, floor supports decking etc. Those last parts DO rot and will need to be replaced or reworked if they have not been already. To that, the rudder shelf, and strut pads are usually shot. The window frames corroded. Much of the electrical will be on its last legs. Unless owners were careful keeping a dry, well aired out bilge you can expect the heavy wood motor beds will have rot.
If gas, the original fiberglass tank will have been replaced or will have to be as it does MIX well with ethanol fuel. That is NOT a good thing as the tank itself gets eaten killing motors and possibly compromising the tank. If changed, it is more than likely aluminum which May only have a life expectancy of 12 years.

So what am I saying...if motors are running well, most of the projects that came up were dealt with correctly and your ok with a boat showing its age some then you just need to keep it running and continue to tackle projects as they come up.

Rotten bulkheads can require many hours to remove, clean prep, fabricate new wood replacements, fit and glass back in. BUt if you can do it's not overly expensive, you can also opt to go composite materials. Then again the boat came through with wood and lasted a good many years.
Struts pads, shelf...a competent DIY'er can tackle a project here and there at a somewhat reasonable cost.

Now if motors are bad, your in for a cost. If you decide your going diesel your in for a huge cost in motors and upgrades, especially IF going new and really upping the power.

Yes, 275K sounds high...but take a look at his project. It's a full renovation with New Diesel Motors done impeccably well.
To keep a gas boat running in a reliable seaworthy state IF you can take on the lions share of the OLD BOAT issues AS They come up, with some Upgrade/Maintenance project tossed in yearly is an entirely different scenario.

All that said, boat listing a 17K now, add for to haul its 21K. I'd think something closer where you can get in and really check it out on a good sea trial maybe a better deal.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 1st, '22, 19:37

Thanks Carl,
You're talking about it the way I'm looking at it.
A good starting point is what I'm after.
I can't afford a full hull up restoration with repower, but i can fix build, repair, just about anything. I need a boat to get started on.
I've been sitting on the sidelines waiting for a deal for several years now, im ready to pull the trigger on the best deal i can find.
There's only been one in my area, and in my price range for the last 5 years that I've seen. And I'm always looking. You cant get financing on old boats, so you have to have the cash, or lein your house, and i try not to let my projects put our home in jeopardy.
So the asking right now is 17,000. 4,000 for shipping, thats 21k.
Does anybody know of one thats all together, restored or not, in Florida anywhere, for 21 or less?

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 1st, '22, 19:47

Btw,
The boat is located at dennis point marina in Drayden, MD.
Does anybody happen to live near by, or know how to verify the listing yacht broker is legitimate, and not an internet scam for suckers looking for cheap boats ?
Ive come across several scams already, so im trying to verify this isn't one.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 1st, '22, 19:48

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Mar 30th, '22, 22:25 It is easy to just drop $100,000 just replacing the engines, bulkhead behind the engines, steering, shaft logs and on and on.

For some

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 1st, '22, 21:39

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 1st, '22, 19:48For some

Saying it is easy to drop $100,000 doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, it was meant to mean you can get up there pretty easy once you start pulling these boats apart.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 2nd, '22, 05:35

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Apr 1st, '22, 21:39 Saying it is easy to drop $100,000 doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, it was meant to mean you can get up there pretty easy once you start pulling these boats apart.

I knew what you meant. Its hard to convey tounge in cheek statements when typing but i couldn't pass up the double entendre. I guess i should have used a smiling face or something

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 2nd, '22, 08:34

If you have good credit you can get a loan for anything - even an old boat.

https://www.lightstream.com/

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 2nd, '22, 08:53

BTW - go get on a plane and check it out - I went to Jupiter FL - I went to NC and I went to New Orleans before I pulled the trigger. An under 20K boat is a rarity - especially one that doesn't have a whole in the side. $17 K is small money to get into a Bertram 31 that floats. Just my opinion.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 2nd, '22, 10:58

Plane tickets and a cab ride is a lot less pricey then 21k only to find out you have a boat you can’t use.

If your not one to know exactly what your looking at…

Before I bought my RTO diesels I wanted them checked out. Me I knew so little about them it didn’t pay for me to go so I asked a friend who is a surveyor if he knew an engine surveyor in the area he could recommend to check them out. As it turns out he was more than happy to go, I agreed under the condition I paid him for his work.

So my point is having a survey done is not bad idea…at the very least you get an unbiased professional state the boat is in, what it has going for it, what it needs and a value. It would be great if someone here could lay some eyes on it first to save you the cost of a surveyor if boats a wreck…but if not that route is an option.

A 31 Bertram I believe is still a great boat to dump money into…even if you do the work yourself,believe me you will be dumping money into it…even if just gas, they are thirsty boats with that deep vee.

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Apr 2nd, '22, 14:04

[quote=Carl post_id=146480 time=1648915082 user_id=162

they are thirsty boats with that deep vee.
[/quote]

Carl, I don't think we are that much thirstier than other boats that get up and move. With your Cummins I bet you get around 1.5 mpg, up to 1.67 if tweaked a bit. There are a lot of boats in the 30-40' range that average 1.0-1.2 mpg. Older Hatteras are notorious gas hogs. They look good sitting at the dock but you don't see them up on a step out on the water much.

Newer boats as well. A few years ago I was on the dock in Seattle and a young, new owner of a 29' twin cat started a conversation about fuel consumption. Well really, he was scared to death and was looking for comfort. He had just run up to Friday Harbor and back on his first trip averaging 0.9 mpg and was in shock. 133 gallons for a 60 mile weekend trip, maybe $550 in fuel. He didn't think he could afford to run the boat. I told him to slow down until he found the sweet spot which I suspect was 11-12 knots instead of 18.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 2nd, '22, 17:06

Carl wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 10:58

A 31 Bertram I believe is still a great boat to dump money into

I've seen no other boat that equals the pedigree, the original build quality, or the following. There's some that should. Supposedly the chris craft is an "improved" b31, and so similar, they got sued by bertram for copying. The blackfin is also supposedly an improved b31. But what i keep noticing, is that everything is, as compared to the b31. It literally is the standard by which all other boats, in its class, were and are measured by.
All boats are holes in the water, in which, you throw your money, but some are definitely worth the effort, more than others. Im done wasting money on boats, that's why my next boat, will be a 31 Bertram.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 2nd, '22, 18:11

JeremyD wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 08:34 If you have good credit you can get a loan for anything - even an old boat.

https://www.lightstream.com/

If they'll finance a boat older than a 2001, than someone should let popyachts, boattrader, and every yacht broker ive spoken with know, because they've all told me no lender will finance a boat older than 20 years. I was told by all of them, a home, cash out refi or home equity loan is the only way

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 2nd, '22, 21:58

JeremyD wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 08:34 If you have good credit you can get a loan for anything - even an old boat.

https://www.lightstream.com/

Now that is how you instantly ruin your credit, a loan on a 40 year old boat in to which you will be dumping a ton of money.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 2nd, '22, 22:03

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 17:06 I've seen no other boat that equals the pedigree, the original build quality, or the following. There's some that should. Supposedly the chris craft is an "improved" b31, and so similar, they got sued by bertram for copying. The blackfin is also supposedly an improved b31. But what i keep noticing, is that everything is, as compared to the b31. It literally is the standard by which all other boats, in its class, were and are measured by.
All boats are holes in the water, in which, you throw your money, but some are definitely worth the effort, more than others. Im done wasting money on boats, that's why my next boat, will be a 31 Bertram.

Thats true but every boat has its pros and cons. The Blackfin is a much heavier boat that drinks fuel but is a better head sea boat. The 30 foot Chris Craft is not as wet and probably burns the same amount of fuel as the Bertram. It also has a bigger cabin. Unfortunately I have never been on one so can not say how it rides or fast it runs at cruise.

Once one of the former members here finish's his 15 year rebuild of one ( he is just about there) hopefully I will be able to let you know more about the Chris.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 2nd, '22, 22:19

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 22:03

Once one of the former members here finish's his 15 year rebuild of one ( he is just about there) hopefully I will be able to let you know more about the Chris.

Thats awesome.
Id love to hear more about that when you find out.
Please post if you do
There have been 2 or 3 of the chris craft 30 that ive passed on while on my search for a bertram. One was in pristine condition, all of them were very low priced compared to any bertram. Not sure why

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 3rd, '22, 08:01

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 21:58 Now that is how you instantly ruin your credit, a loan on a 40 year old boat in to which you will be dumping a ton of money.

Not sure I understand that. If you don't pay it back then yes. On a loan I pay interest but no taxes. I pay taxes if I convert stocks or bonds or 401K money. I have the money - tucked away making money - As long as my investments grow at a higher rate than a loan - which they have - then I am good to go.

My credit was affected by a total of 13 points. still over 800. I can put money into my boat (and upgrade systems) as my cash flow allows while still enjoying the boat.... That's the plan

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 3rd, '22, 10:06

Amberjack wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 14:04

Carl, I don't think we are that much thirstier than other boats that get up and move. With your Cummins I bet you get around 1.5 mpg, up to 1.67 if tweaked a bit.

Yes my Cummins are well within that range...but the boat being looked at I believe is a carbureted gas boat. Run it slow at 17-18 mph with tabs and light on fuel I'd burn 20gph. Bad seas, loaded boat or wanted to get somewhere bumping her up to just below the 4 barrels I'd be 25+gph in the 22mph area. Open the 4 barrels I pinned my flowmeter (24GPH Per Motor) with LOTs of throttle left.

I say our boats are thirsty as they are light boats, needing lots of power to get them up out of the water and keep them there. BUT it also means comparing our boats to some other with flatter bottoms of today. Yes the old Hatteras's are thirsty too...but get them up on that flat aft section they go. Thats something more doable with todays higher HP diesel motors.

Blackfin...they modified to fix many Bertram problems but did so adding lots of weight making them very thrirsty.

Christ Craft- Yes, they fixed the 31 Bertram issues too. Great boat...but to me the looks are lacking. It looks like an old boat where Blackfin and the 31 Bertram have those sexy Classic lines. Maybe I'm just biased...

As to a mortgage...I love boats, but I am not in a position to pay a mortgage on a boat. Maybe someday when student loans and homes paid off and if my wife wanted more of a boat. For me for now I like knowing IF I wanted to cut boat payments to nothing I can...just have to take care of storage and insurance. Everyone has different needs and wants...

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 3rd, '22, 12:44

Carl wrote: ↑Apr 3rd, '22, 10:06 Yes my Cummins are well within that range...but the boat being looked at I believe is a carbureted gas boat. Run it slow at 17-18 mph with tabs and light on fuel I'd burn 20gph. Bad seas, loaded boat or wanted to get somewhere bumping her up to just below the 4 barrels I'd be 25+gph in the 22mph area. Open the 4 barrels I pinned my flowmeter (24GPH Per Motor) with LOTs of throttle left.

If i remember right, you boat had 440 chryslers ?
When you repowered, did you change gears and props?
If so do you remember the original gear and prop vs the new gear and prop? Maybe speed and rpm vs new speed and rpm?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 3rd, '22, 21:53

JeremyD wrote: ↑Apr 3rd, '22, 08:01 Not sure I understand that. If you don't pay it back then yes. On a loan I pay interest but no taxes. I pay taxes if I convert stocks or bonds or 401K money. I have the money - tucked away making money - As long as my investments grow at a higher rate than a loan - which they have - then I am good to go.

My credit was affected by a total of 13 points. still over 800. I can put money into my boat (and upgrade systems) as my cash flow allows while still enjoying the boat.... That's the plan

Jeremy

Kind of Tongue in Cheek that an old boat eats money and a lot like a Salt Water fish tank, it tends to empty your bank account. Remember the movie Money Pit about an old house. An old boat falls into that category. In fact a new boat falls into that category.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 4th, '22, 07:21

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 3rd, '22, 12:44 If i remember right, you boat had 440 chryslers ?
When you repowered, did you change gears and props?
If so do you remember the original gear and prop vs the new gear and prop? Maybe speed and rpm vs new speed and rpm?

I bought boat 26+ years ago with 440 Chryslers running 1:1 gears with 1-1/4" shafts and 15/11 props.
The year prior to ethanol I changed the gears to 1-1/2:1 going to a 17" wheel then later a 16" as the 17" was real close to the hull (Like 1/2")

I usually ran about 2850rpm going about 17-18-19mph burning 20gph combined depending on how I was loaded. Changing to the 1-1/2:1 and bigger wheel with tabs I ran 2800 and ran 18-19 mph burning 18gph.

That first year with the new 1-1/2:1 trans I think I was getting better performance when I pushed the cruise to 3000rpm...I was burning more, but the boat was going faster. I never got to got down the numbers as I was having fun playing with the new setup...that was till I ran short on fuel, ran in getting some...going back out I thought I fouled my plugs as she started backfiring as I tried to bring her up on plane. Long story short that was the last time I ran till figuring out it was the ethanol eating the tank....by that time it was 2 seasons later. I'm not sure the boat ever regained its original performance after that. Motors ran well, but had to depitch wheel to get WOT...I never paid much mind to it as I had no time to use the boat and otherwise it was running perfectly...my fishing was a 10 minute ride, dock and dine 20 minutes. Getting off track

Going diesel from 440's with 1-1/4" shafts and short 10 degree struts-

I redid the motor beds, made new shaft logs, dripless seals, new 1-1/2" shafts, fabricated new struts at 11 degrees to accommodate a 20" (21" would easily fit too) wheel, couplings, propellors, larger exhaust flanges, mufflers and risers to install new transmissions and diesel motors. New to me Motors and trans not new or rebuilt. Plus electrical and...

I now run about 2100 at 19knots and get around 1.6 miles per gallon. Hard to tell as I use all the time, but its a mixed bag of use and along time between getting small shots of fuel. Now 40-60 gallons is a few weeks of running. I try to keep tank between 1/4 and a half tank.

Me, I'm happy as I'm up 3mph burning almost half what I used to and I should have many years of life left on these motors. I think its also quieter and smoother, starts on a dime and manueuvers better. Add to that the sound of diesel...

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 4th, '22, 11:12

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Apr 3rd, '22, 21:53 Jeremy

Kind of Tongue in Cheek that an old boat eats money and a lot like a Salt Water fish tank, it tends to empty your bank account. Remember the movie Money Pit about an old house. An old boat falls into that category. In fact a new boat falls into that category.

OK - got it - no worries - I used to race Porsches and always used to tell my fellow racers that owning a boat makes owning and racing Porsches seem reasonable.

With the price of boat new and used boats, the cost to entry had risen dramatically. It still blows me away that some of these companies are getting $100,000 or more for a 25 foot center console.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 4th, '22, 12:20

JeremyD wrote: ↑Apr 4th, '22, 11:12 I used to race Porsches and always used to tell my fellow racers that owning a boat makes owning and racing Porsches seem reasonable.

A customer that had a professional funny car used to say "Speed Costs". That seems to hold up true on land or in the water...I'd expect that's the case in the air too.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 4th, '22, 20:08

Carl wrote: ↑Apr 4th, '22, 07:21

Going diesel from 440's with 1-1/4" shafts and short 10 degree struts-

I redid the motor beds, made new shaft logs, dripless seals, new 1-1/2" shafts, fabricated new struts at 11 degrees to accommodate a 20" (21" would easily fit too)

Your boat came with 10 degree and you built your own 11 degree?
I was going to ask if you guys fab you own "structs"

or buy some off the shelf part

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 4th, '22, 21:10

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 4th, '22, 20:08 Your boat came with 10 degree and you built your own 11 degree?
I was going to ask if you guys fab you own "structs" or buy some off the shelf part

If Carl can't build his own struts, he better find a new Profession.

I would say, the only ones who build their own struts are those like Carl who have a machine shop.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 5th, '22, 06:41

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 4th, '22, 20:08 Your boat came with 10 degree and you built your own 11 degree?

Yes and Yes

But take a look at my old 10 degree struts, they are built for 1:1 trans setup which was the standard gas option in the early boats. This setup spun little 15" props extremely fast. There was no way I could open the bore enough in the original struts to go a shaft size up which the torque of the Cummins requires. The other issue is the Cummins setups usually use a 20" wheel...a 20" wheel would never come close to fitting with the original strut, never mind turn. So I needed new longer struts that could handle a larger wheel and shaft.

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 4th, '22, 20:08 I was going to ask if you guys fab you own "structs" or buy some off the shelf part

I could have bought off the shelf struts.

Two issues,
-The first is they come 15 degree's and I wanted to go with less of an angle. I could have shimmed and made it work.

The second issue was cost, stock struts are not inexpensive. Having a shop it was a couple hundred for material and I tweaked them to fit perfectly with no shimming.
The downside is they are SS and not bronze so they are more susceptible to corrosion. I went overly heavy using 316L SS to offset that issue. While the material wasn't overly pricey they did take quite a few trips to the shop and back making slight tweaks to get them where I wanted them. If I had to pay me for the time it took to get them made, even at cost it would make the stock struts seem cheap.

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 6th, '22, 21:25

Looks like i finally got my boat.
I offered $15,000 and they accepted.
Transport is going to be about $3,800.
I still have not set foot or laid eyes on it, in person.
I have a hunch about the current condition, all the parts are there, and its cheap enough for me, I'm willing to risk it.
So i finally got a starting point, when it gets here, we'll find out if its a head start, or starting from behind. Either way, I'm officially a bertram 31 owner

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 7th, '22, 05:55

Congratulations!!

You cannot have found a better boat to dump money and time into!

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » Apr 7th, '22, 07:31

Yannis wrote: ↑Mar 25th, '22, 07:29 I saw "Endymion" and had to look it up as it sounded overly Greek to me, but had never heard of the name.
So, this guy, Endymion (intonation on the -i) is a relatively unknown figure of the Greek mythology and was a king of Ilis.
To choose such a peculiar name it may have to do with someone of Greek origin?
Therefore, if that's the case, I could give you a hand in bargaining for you...you never know.
Let me know if my theory is correct!

What i know so far, is the boat was being sold by a school that someone donated the boat to. Im also curious of the history of it, i'll poke around to find out all i can,

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 7th, '22, 07:52

A school?

I knew that we could donate money, books, pencils, copybooks, even furniture to schools, but....a boat???
Would never have imagined that!

I couldn't serve as a bargaining median, however as you're saying, it could be interesting to look into the origins.

Talking of which, when I came here I tried to find anything pertaining to my boat’s origin but nobody knew anything about it...
I then placed the Bertram Hull code in my signature line below, just in case anyone could recognize it. Almost ten years now, and counting...

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 7th, '22, 07:58

Outstanding - Congratulations!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 7th, '22, 09:39

Yannis wrote: ↑Apr 7th, '22, 07:52 I knew that we could donate money, books, pencils, copybooks, even furniture to schools, but....a boat???
Would never have imagined that!

In dads old marina a 28 Bertram was "donated" to a church, one that sent the clergy out to meet the ships for services. The 28 had 502's...you know how a diesel boat does the dip when put in gear...so did this one. The boat was played with for a while, then the motors were removed and sold. Installed a pair of small blocks and off she went never to be seen again.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 7th, '22, 14:38

Yeah, churches are magical entities, you donate something and PAFFF, it disappears !

Nobody knows anything after that, as if it was never there...I thought it only happened here but it proves out that magic exists everywhere...I personally donate everywhere except to the church.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 8th, '22, 21:50

Yannis wrote: ↑Apr 7th, '22, 07:52 A school?

I knew that we could donate money, books, pencils, copybooks, even furniture to schools, but....a boat???
Would never have imagined that!

I couldn't serve as a bargaining median, however as you're saying, it could be interesting to look into the origins.

Talking of which, when I came here I tried to find anything pertaining to my boat’s origin but nobody knew anything about it...
I then placed the Bertram Hull code in my signature line below, just in case anyone could recognize it. Almost ten years now, and counting...

Yannis

The original owner might be long gone or might not have even remembered his hull number. Now if you had the old name or names on the Boat then maybe you could get a hit.

I have been searching for an old friend's 31 for years. Was sold to a guy in the Wildwood area after he died back in the early 80's. Some times it is just one of those mysteries we never solve.

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Apr 9th, '22, 09:16

Geebert wrote: ↑Apr 2nd, '22, 17:06 I've seen no other boat that equals the pedigree, the original build quality, or the following. There's some that should. Supposedly the chris craft is an "improved" b31, and so similar, they got sued by bertram for copying. The blackfin is also supposedly an improved b31. But what i keep noticing, is that everything is, as compared to the b31. It literally is the standard by which all other boats, in its class, were and are measured by.
All boats are holes in the water, in which, you throw your money, but some are definitely worth the effort, more than others. Im done wasting money on boats, that's why my next boat, will be a 31 Bertram.

The Chris Craft "30' Tournament" is an awesome boat. My friend has had one for around 30 years and I have fished it more time than I can remember. I would trust the boat with my life (as I have on an occasion or two when conditions went to shit).

The CC is a pretty stable platform and does not snap-roll like some other deep vee boats. The bow flares keep it dry when the conditions would usually dictate otherwise.

My buddys boat has 350's and they are original and the boat is under-powered but performs surprisingly well. 454's would be a better option and B-series Cummins would be better than that. The boat steers very well on one engine with its original rudders. He has trim tabs and the boat reacts very well with them to stay on plane at very low speed (I dont know exactly but I think she stays up at 15~mph....maybe under)
It has a molded cockpit that is very nice, the hatch covers are similar to the B31 but open differently. Factory fish boxes etc...Cabin is laid out pretty well and very open compared the Bertram. When the B31s get restored and customized they are obviously nicer than the CC layout.

It is def an "improved" design of a 31 but is prob more equal to the Bertram and not better.

The CC does not have that chine like the 31 does but for what its worth maybe it does not need it.

Under the chine the comparison is prob identical (hence the lawsuit)

anyway that is my .02 regarding the 30 CC Tournament

seems like there are only 2 kinds of people that even know what the CC Tournament even is....B31 owners and 30 CC owners...LOL

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 9th, '22, 10:10

Haha, wrong! There are also 28 owners that know of the CC.

Also, no matter what improvements anyone can subdue the 31 cabin to, it will never ever resemble the CC’s cabin, layout,space, height, galley, you name it.
I have to admit it is even better than the 28 cabin, it hurts, but it is.