Rudder position indicator

[pschauss]

Anyone have experience installing a rudder position indicator. Will something like this, mounted to the steering wheel (https://www.wholesalemarine.com/davis-r ... hcQAvD_BwE) work.

Can I attach a sensor to my tillers and interface it to my Garmin Echomap?

I have cable steering, if that makes a difference.

[kross1]

Sure looks interesting. I wonder if it works. Can’t get any simpler.
Cheap enough I might try it what the hell.

[kross1]

Just ordered one. Should be here Wednesday I will let you know how it works

[pschauss]

If it works by gravity it might not work on the flying bridge where the wheel is almost horizontal.

[kross1]

I was going to mention that. I have a 28 and the wheel is almost vertical.

[pschauss]

Garmin makes a unit called GRF10 rudder angle sensor which supports NEMA2000. However, it seems to be intended to work with an autopilot system. Has anyone tried to interface it to a chart plotter to display the rudder angle on the screen?

[Rick Jester]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5t3R-SnYSE&t=92s

[scenarioL113]

I have a VDO rudder indicator gauge witht the VDO sending unit that mounts near the tiller arm. It does use wired to communicate with the gauge.

It works very good and am very happy with the results. This is the unit I got and it worked out good utilizing my 3-3/8" gauge hole that was empty bc I have a twin scan tachometer

[Carl]

I usually just bump boat in gear to figure out where rudders are.

[scenarioL113]

LOL

I always said the same thing Carl. The only reason I got the gauge was bc I was sick at looking at the hole in my helm cluster and this fit the bill.

Now that I have it, I dont know how I boated without it....LMAO

[Yannis]

There is no rudder position that a throttle thrust combination can’t overcome.
Old chinese proverb.

[pschauss]

Yannis,

Can you post a picture of how you linked the position sensor to your tillers?

[Carl]

...so wise the Chinese are.



Man who go through turnstiles sideways going to Bangkok

[Yannis]

Peter, Carl,

When I bought my boat there was a rudder indicator.
It was a system connected to the tiller with a moving pin that moved as the tiller moved. That system was connected electrically to the meter on my dash.

Initially I thought that this was something useful, so I lived with it for a while.
Then I realized that with the small (not stock, but small nevertheless) rudders that I have it didn't matter at all where my rudders were positioned, it would suffice for the necessary thrust on either propeller to lead me whenever I wanted to go, more so while mooring which is sometimes demanding.

After that I removed the rudder indicator.

The chinese proverb note was supposed to be funny!

[Carl]

The chinese proverb note was supposed to be funny!

So was mine, true, but funny.

[scenarioL113]

Peter, I will get you a picture of how I set mine up if that helps. It is mounted next to the till arm and the "arm" of the sensor is moved back on forth by two SS bolts that cradle the arm as the tiller goes back and forth.
It is a very simple setup and works very good. I used a rubber band as well to keep it extremely accurate. (I know you dont understand what I mean by that but the pics will explain it better)

[Ironworker]

Peter, I will get you a picture of how I set mine up if that helps. It is mounted next to the till arm and the "arm" of the sensor is moved back on forth by two SS bolts that cradle the arm as the tiller goes back and forth.
It is a very simple setup and works very good. I used a rubber band as well to keep it extremely accurate. (I know you dont understand what I mean by that but the pics will explain it better)

Frank

I'd like to see that pic as well

[scenarioL113]

I will guys. I keep forgetting but wrote myself a note

[scenarioL113]

Here is a picture and 2 videos of the rudder indicator sending unit on my tiller arm and mounting. I did this quickly in the spring this year because I was getting frustrated with all the engineering that was involved and then decided to just keep it simple. I added the rubber-band to keep the "arm" centered as it travels in each direction. This way it is very precise as I just move the wheel ever so slightly and the needle on the gauges goes with it.
It worked perfect all season and I just had to replace the rubber-band one time. It still works quite fine without the rubber-band...

Anyway that it how I ended up doing it


https://photos.app.goo.gl/kX5eLwBuxvPPYhzA6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/T5Nywq9bCh6qFNDg7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wvj1wHzrUjN29dT3A

[scenarioL113]

Frank

I'd like to see that pic as well

I updated the post check out the links in my previous post

[Tony Meola]

Frank

What made you think you would need the rubber band to secure the arm?

[scenarioL113]

The rubber band takes up the slack between the 2 SS bolts that retain the arm. Otherwise there is a little slop when you turn one way to the other.

This was the most simple way I came up with. There are better ways but I went with this for simplicity

[Ironworker]

Thanks Frank!

[EarleyBird]

Well Boys…another opinion. I have been running/fishing a 31 Bertram for more than half my life…I’m 66. (35years). Rudder angle indicators are needed on ships, also went to sea for 30 years. If you do not know what your boat is going to do when you put both engines in gear, forward or reverse take up golf. Another electronic device that will sooner or later get the most corrosive element known to man (saltwater) on it and fail. On the bridge, under the motor boxes, or back by the steering cylinder… it will fail. Should be interesting……EarleyBird

[pschauss]

I finally came to a similar conclusion. I marked the rudder amidships position on my wheel with tape. Hard left and hard right are each roughly one full turn from that point. Before I leave the dock I put my helm all the way right or left and then bring the wheel back one full turn to the spot that I have marked.

If I have to, I can stop before I approach my slip and use the same technique to insure that my rudders are centered.

[Rawleigh]

KISS! I like it!

[Amberjack]

I ran a 24 ton sailboat for 13 years. Single engine, big rudder and rudder position REALLY mattered. After driving a Bertram 31--twin engines, loads of torque, small rudders--I'm not sure rudder position matters much. Engine input overpowers them but then I am running the original smaller rudders.

[pschauss]

After I upgraded to oversized rudders two years ago, I noticed that my boat was significantly more sensitive to rudder position when docking with the engines at idle speed. Even with the rudders amidships, she did not turn as quickly when I put one engine in reverse.

[Amberjack]

Peter, I can see that. At +/- 50 years of age none of our boats are stock anymore and performance will vary significantly for each. I'm considering upgrading to larger rudders as its impossible for me to steer on one engine during long passages at enforced low speed and two engines is too fast.

[pschauss]

I added the oversized rudders two years ago after I got tired of calling Seatow every time my starboard engine quit on me.

With the new rudders, I find that the pivot point when I back up is about two feet further aft. The slip that I had at the time required me to make a sharp turn to port backing up. With the new rudders, I had to stop in mid turn and pull forward a bit.

[Tony Meola]

I added the oversized rudders two years ago after I got tired of calling Seatow every time my starboard engine quit on me.

With the new rudders, I find that the pivot point when I back up is about two feet further aft. The slip that I had at the time required me to make a sharp turn to port backing up. With the new rudders, I had to stop in mid turn and pull forward a bit.

Peter

Did you install the rudders designed by Capt. Pat? I have them on my boat, I did not notice that big of a difference in backing down, but i do use the engines more when backing down to keep the stern straight. Once I line up the stern I straighten out the rudders and the stern seems to respond to throttle adjustments the same way they did with the original rudders.

Since the rudders toe in I would expect that if you have a little more thrust on either engine, will impact how straight she backs down. Bigger rudders would of course increase that response.

[pschauss]

Tony,

I got mine from Bobby Sole's Propeller which, according to all of you, were Captain Pat's design. I had been in the habit of docking with the engines at idle speed, steering only with my shift levers so that I had fewer controls to think about. I have found that a bit more throttle does bring back the tighter turning response but the tradeoff is that I approach my slip a bit faster than I want to.

[Tony Meola]

Peter

Same rudders.

When I had the boat slipped, I had to turn to starboard to bring the stern in line with the slip. I would ease up to the slip slowly, keeping about 15 feet off the dock. Turn the wheel hard right and then reverse starboard and port in gear to push the bow around. Would move into neutral about half way through and start to straighten out the wheel. Then I would use the throttles to line up the stern and bring her in.

I have not tried it since I have diesels since I dock behind the house now. So not sure how much fun it would be trying it with more torque and bigger props.