42 Bertram? Need your help and advice

[Ironworker]

My GF's dad has given us his 42 Bertram. Its a 79 model with 903 Cummins. While the engines run, the gear boxes are shot. The boat was full of termites which I think I've mostly beat back into submission. The boat has not left the dock in 8 years.

This is going to require a complete restoration, Basically, I can salvage the hull and maybe some of the forward cabins. Everything else including engines, bulkheads, electrical, generator, steering, controls, electronics, etc. will have to be replaced. I've had three different experts tell me to forget it and move on.

I'm looking for a lone voice and maybe some suggestions on how to approach this project if I decide to do so. My preliminary plan for this boat is to use it for a floating RV for the Bahamas.

My thinking is to make it a "living off the hook boat". I appreciate your advice on either side of the equation.

BTW, I was pretty down on the project until I visited Bertram Heaven and saw the new Pepper. Now I have some hope this boat can be salvaged. I'm expecting a 2 year project and a budget of $200K. Opinions?

[Yannis]

Rick,

It vividly reminds me of that comic sheet hanging in the bulletin board at my office, that went:

Are you lonely?
Hate to make decisions?
Then, hold a meeting!
You will get to know other people, offload decisions, knock off your monotony...
Meetings! The viable alternative to work!

Similarly:

Don't you have enough problems?
Do you have a slack in your working schedule?
Then accept a 40yo Bertram gift that has been sitting for 8 years with possible osmosis and nothing that works inside!
You’ll get to kid yourself with your budgeting skills and ruin your bank account!
You’ll work your @@ss off without any light at the end of the tunnel.
Accept an old Bertram 42!
The viable alternative to boating!

Or something along these lines...

[Carl]

LOL Yannis...you are now the King of Sarcasm on this board.

I bow my head to you in homage.

Hail Mighty Yannis



As to my opinions on your question...What Yannis said.

Or take your 200K and buy something you don't have to spend two years rebuilding that still won't be worth much.

Some things are Free for a reason.

[micky]

RUNNNNNNNNNN

[scenarioL113]

I always live by the motto "dont threaten me with a good time" and torture myself on projects...I keep telling myself that I have "one more project in me"...

With that said, a 42 is a serious boat and something that you can actually live on. You can take it to Bermuda if you want...(I am only half serious on that).

Budgets come down to what can you actually do yourself. That is a big boat so a repower is prob 100K-ish and then another 100K into the other mentioned things... I think it is do-able.

It would come down to you really wanting the boat for a reason and not just inheriting a boat to possibly sell in a few years. If your not sure of what you want it for then I would pass on the resto but if you want it for real then give it a shot and would be a kick ass machine with a repower.

[Ironworker]

Well, I freely admit my B31 is a pretty significant project which I'm still in the midst of doing and I expect I have another 6 months to have her ready to roll.

I've wrestled with taking this B42 project on for a two years. I've got my eyes wide open regarding this project. One of the most significant issues in my mind is where to haul the boat for a long term restoration. The boat is in N. Palm Beach Florida. Most of the yards in that area just don't want a boat sitting in the yard for a year or two.

I'm in the market for a liveboard but I don't want anything to nice or expensive. It just needs to be mechanically sound. As I finish up my B31, I'll start investigating what 200K will buy these days. Either way, I've got to make a decision on the B42 soon. The bottom cleaning fees are getting out of hand as the bottom paint is long gone.

[Yannis]

Carl,

Im tucked in a bay, drinking wine and reading your line, hahahaha!!!
=

[Amberjack]

Rick you can buy a lot of boat for $200K. Most of them are old enough not to appeal to new buyers but still fully functional. They're cheap because they are fuel hogs--I can think of Hatteras 43's as an example--but since you're looking for a mobile live aboard and won't be distance cruising that shouldn't be an issue. You'll be surprised at what you can get for a lot less than $200,000 when you start looking around the market.

[Ironworker]

Rick you can buy a lot of boat for $200K. Most of them are old enough not to appeal to new buyers but still fully functional. They're cheap because they are fuel hogs--I can think of Hatteras 43's as an example--but since you're looking for a mobile live aboard and won't be distance cruising that shouldn't be an issue. You'll be surprised at what you can get for a lot less than $200,000 when you start looking around the market.

There are lots of convertibles and sportsfishermen tied up at docks in S. Florida that haven't moved for 10 or more years except to get the bottom repainted every 5 years. Many are beyond economical salvage. The Owners think they are worth 10 times the actual value though.

[ktm_2000]

on a similar note, within the last couple of years my parents picked up a Grand Banks 36' with single yanmar and setup for cruising for way less than your $200k budget, it is essentially 2 bedrooms and 2 baths on the water. It isn't going to win any races nor would it be fun to fish from but is damn nice for a floating condo.

[Tony Meola]

The 42 was a great boat for its time and could make a great rebuild if it was in good enough shape to turn it into what you want without spending a fortune in time and money. In today's world $200,000 does not go far. Just engines could eat up almost half of that, then the two years to put the boat back together.

Hate to see a Bertram trashed but unfortunately everything and everyone has its day.

[DanielM]

Rick,

You might look at Todd Pearce’s comments on this old string. Todd did an awesome 42 but he doesn’t advocate redoing one. Probably would be good to look through Todd’s other postings. Somewhere there is a link to his rebuild of that 42. It was a pretty awesome slide deck of pictures but I’m not finding it now.

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... 36#p136536

Probably not worth the cost and effort. I like Carl’s comment. “Some things are free for a reason”

But if you give it a whirl, post lots of pictures.

BTW if you’re looking for a floating RV could the 903s be rebuilt reasonably cost effectively? I don’ t know anything about 903s, but from what I have heard they’re pretty solid old school diesels….run forever, just not fast. But like I said, I don’t really know anything about them.

[Carl]

could the 903s be rebuilt reasonably cost effectively? I don’ t know anything about 903s,

I think Rick said the motors are or were running but the trans are shot. So I guess rebuild those or find a pair to replace them. I semi- assumed that would have been the route as the boat just needs to go and speed was not a major factor.

I just look at the amount of work and time Micky has into his "couple day project" of cleaning bottom and a little glass work on his Hatteras project that turned into a full blown restoration. Aside from the many upgrades it's the stuff found along the way that you didn't know or think about that drives the price up and adds to the projected completion date.
If your like Frank (Scenario) and itching for another project, I say hell this is a biggy, go for it if you want. But if its a way to get an inexpensive "liveaboard" with the least amount of effort and time...I say stand back, get your pad and pencil and really start adding up what is needed. Then look around and see what can be had for that money.
Then again I have seen some less than nicely done "liveaboards" looking more like homeless camps that could be done on the cheap, some plywood, a bungee cord or two and a tarp can do wonders.

I think you need to find the person that knows they have an older boat that isn't worth what it used to be worth, not the person who still thinks he has a brand new yacht needing a wax job and TLC to whip it back in shape.

[Ironworker]

The issue with the 903's is parts availability as with many of the older engines. They have approximately 4,000 hours but they have spent most of their life sitting for 363 days a year then running over to West End and back the other two days.


This boat needs to be hauled and bottom painted badly, which is going to be $5K. The hydraulic hoses have rotted so I've got to replace those just to get it to the boatyard. Once I get that done then likely some of the other hynautic components will have to be replaced. Likely $1K.

Once the boat is hauled who knows what I'll find before the boat can be put back into the water (and how much it will cost) just waiting for me to decide should I take on the project. So part of my decision is taking on a project without fully understanding the cost. I'm figuring at least $10K will have to be spent to haul out and get her back in the water. If the answer is "don't do it" then I've pissed away $10K. If the answer is "do it", then I've spent $10K to buy myself some more time before starting a 2 year project. That $10K will have to be spent again.

So here's the conundrum.

[Bruce]

After 29 years in the marine business the thing about buying more time never panned out for 95% of my clients. Time is a commodity that in this day and age is rare. Usually buying more time ends up costing more in the long run because no matter how much commitment one mentaly makes, it very seldom works out.
Unless you have gobbs of dead presidents and inventors that you need to divest yourself of, forget the project.

I'd sell the boat as is, some hippie will buy it and you'll see it around peanut island, OPC and eventually sunk.
Make sure if you sell it that way, you remove any ownership title to your family before the boat is handed over. Otherwise it will come back to your family.

[Carl]

Is buying a chain saw or just walking away from the boat an option?

From what you've done to the 31 I know if you tackle it you'll get it done and she'll be great, but to take this one on... at what expense in time and money, what do you gain that cannot be gotten other ways?

You said 200k in money plus two YEARS of your time...how much value do you put on your time?


just my .02

[Ironworker]

After 29 years in the marine business the thing about buying more time never panned out for 95% of my clients. Time is a commodity that in this day and age is rare. Usually buying more time ends up costing more in the long run because no matter how much commitment one mentaly makes, it very seldom works out.
Unless you have gobbs of dead presidents and inventors that you need to divest yourself of, forget the project.

I'd sell the boat as is, some hippie will buy it and you'll see it around peanut island, OPC and eventually sunk.
Make sure if you sell it that way, you remove any ownership title to your family before the boat is handed over. Otherwise it will come back to your family.

Bruce, I hear you loud and clear. I'm 64 and retiring at the end of this year. After 40 years of 100 hour work weeks, time is by far my most precious commodity.

[Ironworker]

Carl,

I pretty much think I've worn out my friends with the 31 project which is still another 4 to 6 months to complete.

I'm not sure I can sell them on a 2 year likely 3 year B42 project.

I greatly appreciate the advice of all.

[PeterPalmieri]

I hate to admit it but if I’m “living off the hook” it’s gonna be on a Leopard powercat. Great layout for real living and insane fuel economy.

[Carl]

I hate to admit it but if I’m “living off the hook” it’s gonna be on a Leopard powercat. Great layout for real living and insane fuel economy.

mmm...my bucket list item is a Caribbean bareback cruise on one of those.

[Ironworker]

I hate to admit it but if I’m “living off the hook” it’s gonna be on a Leopard powercat. Great layout for real living and insane fuel economy.

No doubt this would be a great boat and hopefully when all the Youtube Baby Boomers get tired of theirs, I'll be able to afford one. The price of Cats have gone crazy! The best part is the shallow draft! I've also been looking at trawlers but again current cruising boat prices are exorbitant!

Where I want to park this boat primarily will be the southern Bahamas. This is a fairly risky place to keep a boat. I want to leave it then fly in. Virtually no support facilities, theft is of concern by either Dominicans or Haitians.

[Yannis]

Carl,

I can guarantee you Bertram weather and perfect winter facilities in Greece.
Only, when you arrive at night it’s already next morning, so you'll be a zombie for a couple of days!
I, too, envision a power cat as the optimal weapon, remains to be seen if it withstands and also travels through Bertram weathers.

[Bruce]

Since the 42 and me are practicaly neighbors, I'd be glad to do an in person look see. Let me know.

[Ironworker]

Bruce

I'd be very grateful for your opinion and would be happy to buy you and your wife dinner. PM me your contact info. I'm heading down next week likely on the 16th.

[Todd Pearce]

AS Daniel said, i am probably the best qualified to answer your questions and as such please feel free to contact me personally for a chat
My journey was 5 years long and i have the worlds most expensive Bertram42/folly , Shes absolutely no stone un-turned rebuilt and stunning!!!!
Would I do it again, HELL NO!!!

Its a massive under taking ,mentally, emotionally, physically and financially, done right it costs more than a new boat, to explain
COST is NOT OUTLAY, cost is what you outlay minus what you get back
COST IS CALCULATED AT EXIT ( ie when you sell)

So my boat owes so much that if i sold it, the COST/LOSS would be north of 300K, My out lay in total was north of 700,
You can buy a great boat in the states for 300k, By your description you'll spent at least 250-350 only to get back 50-100k when you sell it so your true cost will be very high, i suspect that you don`t want to throw away 250k,

Conversely buy the best Bertram you can find for 300K ,a boat thats been loved and maintained well , and when you sell it you'll probably get back most of what you've paid provided you love and maintain it properly

Most importantly,
1/ listen to people who know there shit!! Bruce is a very knowledgeable guy and if hes willing to give you some of his time, do yourself a favour and listen to him!!
2/ Cost everything up before you commit, you`ll be shocked at the true costs,
3/ Remember that a polished turd is still a turd!! if you do a half ass job you'll never be truly happy and the full job is just so costly
4/ Remember that all the time (YEARS) and energy is time and energy that your not enjoying out on the ocean, enjoying life instead of being stuck in a shed working on the dream rather than just living the dream, for what would ultimately be less cost
5/ no one will help!! they might at first ,but the thousands of hours eventually become to much, and you'll be stuck in the shed by yourself while everyone else is out at play
6/ IT TAKES TWICE AS LONG AND COSTS TWICE AS MUCH,, there are no truer words that these when it comes to boat projects
7/ my famous last words to my wife before embarking on ours, "HOW BAD CAN IT BE,, I CAN FIX IT" well as it turns out, it can be really really bad. the cost on family time and relationships is very high

Ultimately, Ive ended up with a truly amazing boat that people complement , BUT, the cost verses pleasure ratio is just not worth it, My advice, Go buy the best boat you can afford and enjoy your time on this planet to the fullest
Again please feel free to contact me any time, i can tell you where to look and what it costs, its forever etched in my mind!!!
As i write this and think of everything i went through, the thought of doing it again makes me feel physically ILL LOL

[Ironworker]

Todd,

I vividly remember your thread on the refurbishment of your 42 B. Frankly what you did was better than factory new. I had that nauseous feeling when you said that you needed a bigger boat after using the 42 for awhile.

I greatly appreciate your advice and counsel

[DanielM]

The only rub is there should be quite a bit of room cost wise between ‘better than new’ and ‘usable, non-sinking, fishing cabin boat’. While Todd’s 42 is beautiful, you should see what some folks are living on in Boot Key Florida.

It would need to be sea worthy to get to where you want to go, but wouldn’t need to be necessarily pretty.

While I tend to agree with the majority here that it’s probably not worth the effort, I know me, and if one fell in my lap for free I’m pretty sure I’d try and make a go of it. But then I have a room to store one without cost and no real expectation that it would ever get actually completed. lol.

I’ve been looking for years for a B38 in my area to redo. I found one for almost nothing on the east coast but transportation costs ate up any real value in the boat even though it had running 3208s and the owner was looking to get rid of it. Had it been close to home I would have picked it up.

I would expect just yard fees in South Florida would eat you up.

Good luck.

[Ironworker]

Yep. I just pulled my B31 and its sitting in my driveway. Pulled her Friday on the high tide and pulled the old engines this morning. I had to get the power company out to lift a few power lines but I didn't have to remove the tower.

A new thread will soon be forth coming.

It's almost 500 NM from the B42 to my house in SC via the ICW. Thats a long haul in an old boat.

[Tommy]

Rick, we love our fellow stewards on this Board, which is why so many knowledgeable guys have tried to steer you away from a painful journey.

PUNT !