How Much Anchor Chain

[JohnV8r]

Hey Guys,

I’m replacing my old anchor chain and rope. I have a double gypsy on my Lighthouse windlass - one side is for rope, the other for chain. It’s a pain when I scope out a lot of line to switch from one Gypsy to the other while retrieving the rope and chain. To that end I would like to put more 1/4” chain on. How much chain can I use without creating a weight problem?

Thanks in advance,

JohnV8r

[neil]

6foot of chain for every ten foot of boat lenght

[Yannis]

I have 55 meters of 8mm. chain and it’s not enough sometimes.
You need 3 boat lengths on the sea floor to be safe, plus the depth, plus some slack.
This is what we do in the Med, in your area I have no idea ...one thing though, we never use rope.

[Tony Meola]

John

You can cheat if you clip a weight to the shackle where the rope meets the chain. I use 3/8, 6 feet in the bay and would go to 10 outside. Always held with that, but you might have a different bottom then we have in NJ.

[Carl]

I have 55 meters of 8mm. chain and it’s not enough sometimes.
You need 3 boat lengths on the sea floor to be safe, plus the depth, plus some slack.
This is what we do in the Med, in your area I have no idea ...one thing though, we never use rope.

You never use rope and you never set anchor in deep water. It would be tough for you to anchor up in waters a hundred feet (30 meters) or deeper.

[Yannis]

Why would anyone want to set anchor even in 30 meters, or more?

We set anchor in the following cases:

1.To moor our boat in a marina. Marinas are seldom deeper than 10-15 meters, the norm is 3-5 meters.
2. To moor in a secluded cove and do an overnight or two with friends etc. The coves/bays are right next to a land mass, therefore never more than a few meters deep. We usually tie up outside also (on a rock, a tree...) so we can enjoy a safe night sleep.
3. To moor “at anchor” near a dock which is full, awaiting for someone to leave. Ports/marinas are inside bays and bays are usually shallow.

No-one in his right mind would head out to sea and decide to drop anchor right in the middle of nowhere.

[CamB25]

It's a fishing thing, Yannis.

[Carl]

Why would anyone want to set anchor even in 30 meters, or more?

No-one in his right mind would head out to sea and decide to drop anchor right in the middle of nowhere.

Here we have fishing and diving spots that are in deep water.

I also boat around ship channels. If I ever lost both motors, hit something, got line caught in wheels, I'd want a way to stop my boat from drifting further into a channel. The ships won't and can't turn. I fish by VZ bridge, its 80-90' deep in places 60 on the sides.

Then comes if a storm comes up I may want to anchor to keep bow into the seas.

Loss of power and want to stop drifting out. We have an Ocean to drift out into...long long way before we drift back to land.

[ktm_2000]

smaller boat, I run 1 size up anchor, 12' chain and have (2) 300' lengths of rope, the 1st section is on the chain, 2nd is on board in case $hit happens. I can handle most anything inshore, if offshore I am probably screwed and need more rope. If I get my project done and start fishing offshore more, I will up what I have.

[Yannis]

Carl,

There are a few things I don't get:

First, what do you mean by “drift”?
Second, do you anchor when you fish?
Do you drop anchor in the ocean to keep your bow into the seas?

[bob lico]

quite often i anchor in 120' of water and sometimes 140' of water over a wreck . i have a dan fort anchor rated for an 40' boat and use 28' of 3/8" chain with 1200' of line in a laundry type basket. i retrieve anchor with 15" polyball with a twenty foot "leash" on it to keep it away from props. as the boat goes forward my son wraps the line in laundry basket of course you have to be on your toes and not create slack in the line between boat and poly ball.anchor winds up thru the large hoop connected to poly ball so you stop boat and pull leash to retrieve anchor and polyball while line is wrap neatly in basket.

[David Davidson]

I’ve got 3 lengths of 8mm chain on board: 1x10m with 100ft rope which I use in most scenarios. If the situation requires it I shackle another 15m section of chain onto the first, then the rope. If really necessary I shackle the last section of 15m chain on also.
I’ve used the full amount only once, and it was probably overkill, but I slept better.
Raising all that chain with a ball is no problem, but does give you a bit of a workout!!

[Carl]

Carl,

There are a few things I don't get:

First, what do you mean by “drift”?
Second, do you anchor when you fish?
Do you drop anchor in the ocean to keep your bow into the seas?

Drift or drifting is the movement of the boat due to wind, waves, currents and or tide.

Sometimes you have a general area fish migrate to..or they are there feeding so you stop the boat on the up side of that area and put your lines out. The boat will hopefully "drift" over the productive area. When done right you catch fish for a bit and when past the spot you bring the "lines in" and take "another pass" over the same spot or where the fish seemed to have moved.

Other times you "drift over structure" as the fish tend to be around structure. Could be rocks, boulders, drop offs to deeper water, wrecks etc. These fish are not exactly in the structure but may be feeding on the smaller bait fish that are...so you want to cover an area in and around the structure.


Anchoring to fish. Some fishing is best if you are right over or near the structure. These times you anchor and maneuver to the best spot and stay there to fish.


Then comes anchoring or drifting with chum...bits of food to attract or KeeP the fish in one spot.


Do I anchor in the ocean to keep my bow into the waves...sort of at times.
Guess it depends where one thinks the ocean starts. I have been a few miles offshore fishing in 150' of water or so. I'd say its the ocean as there is nothing between me and Europe. Anyway it was too uncomfortable for me to drift beam to the seas so I put the anchor out. Not the best for some kinds of fishing...but I'm also tires of getting beat up to catch fish for pleasure.

I have been in lousy weather with a storm coming in once that we put an anchor down to ride it out. It was in our bay, not the ocean. The 2nd time to was too bad to put the anchor out....and that was inside our harbor.

[bob lico]

normal procedure on long island and new jersey is in the fall the stripe bass migration stops in front of fire island in 30 to 60 feet of water and feeds on sand worms that are hatching at the same time.a hundred boats converge on the area and the fish get lock jaw and go under.Sooooo we take the Phoenix out in gale warning or bad small craft warnings some times 10 foot waves in inlet. when i get out there i position the boat with bow into the waves ,wind with single lever controls all you have to do in tap one handle to keep her straight with engines at idle. the anglers cast jigs into the swirls on top of the water from bass in a frenzy. great fishing and not one boat out the inlet. coming in the inlet with 10 to 12 following sea you need massive torque and rudders to keep control of boat and time those huge waves in back of you. obviously no drinking alcohol and no anchoring in big waves like that you will never recover the anchor and you want to move with the waves ready at all times for the big one.-------be careful offshore

[ktm_2000]

Bob,

You want to talk about ugly............. try commercial bass season off race point
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xywUADfLVSr1QuU67

Shortly after taking this photo we were in the rip and I had a fish on, one foot in my boat, crotch on the gunnel and my second foot pushing off another boat.

[Tony Meola]

John

Are you now all set on how to use the anchor to fish? LOL

[Yannis]

Thanks Carl,

So I understand that EXCEPT for the very rare occasion where both engines die on you within a ship channel etc...the MAIN reason you want to carry a long anchor (which just because it has to be so long cannot be "chain only") is to be able to position yourself above a fish feeding ground so you don't drift away from that area.
I've been banging my head to figure that out for years...

[JohnV8r]

Tony,

Here's the deal. For me, there are really three types of anchoring I do with any regularity.

First, there is anchoring for fishing on the beaches. This is a very specific thing where I like to be in shallow water at night off the beaches and scope the anchor line 5:1. This is not overnight, but usually an hour before dark until midnight or 1 am. I am usually in 20-30' of water. Drop the hook, turn on the underwater lights, chum squid, and bring lingcod, halibut, and striped bass within casting distance of the boat with the lights and chum. I usually fish squid on a jig like you would for white seabass, live bait on a three way swivel, or will cast a drop shot rig with a plastic grub in a fan pattern if I'm bored. I need to have enough scope out to ensure the anchor doesn't drag, and want to have rope going through the bow pulpit roller to keep things nice and quiet for the fish.

Second, anchoring with idiots. This typically occurs during the three days of the Fleet Week Airshow in the SF Bay. I anchor right off Alcatraz in a spot where the Blue Angels fly right over the boat during their entry and a couple of maneuvers. Depth is 15-20' depending on tide. I barely scope the anchor 2:1 for this because the idiots who show up for this tend to come late, generally don't know what scope is, haven't checked to know when the tide will swing, and generally have no clue that the SF Bay is not a lake. I need to be able to hold, but need to be able to pull the hook with the windlass in a hurry when someone shows up intent on demonstrating they are a Darwinism Award candidate. I used to scope my anchor more generously until a sailboater decided to show off and ran his keel into my anchor line, thus forcing his bow into mine. Then he tried to outrun me to his marina until the Coast Guard got him and he got popped for a DUI.

Third, is anchoring overnight in the California Delta - usually in the Sacramento River part. There is current regardless of tide since it's really a river and to sleep well I scope out 7:1 in 10-12' of water off to the side of the channel. Let's just say you go to the Delta to have fun. I tend to sleep soundly there and don't want the anchor to slip.

I have a 33 lb Bruce stainless steel anchor with 1/4" chain to fit my windless gypsy. I think I have 18-20' of anchor chain and probably 200' of braided anchor line. The anchor line is getting a little stiff. It probably needs to be replaced after 17 years. That is what prompted my question. I was thinking about putting 50' of stainless steel chain on primarily because 50' would be the same weight as my anchor. However, I think I'll reduce that to 35' (23.5 lbs) based on the comments here. In all honesty, I'm a fair weather anchor guy. I rarely overnight on the hook, but I'd hate to drag my anchor when I'm fishing on the beaches at night.

Thanks for all the input!

[Carl]

Yes Yannis you have the general gist of why we have long anchor lines. Although I am not sure what you consider long.

When anchoring with rope we try to achieve a 5:1 scope. So if your anchoring in 30' of water and your bow is 5' up from the water you need to have out 175' .
Bad weather or staying overnight I'd let out more, using as a lunch hook I'd put out less.


Yes, it is definitely used for fishing, but my main reason is safety.

[Yannis]

This is where I was disrupted; I couldn't think of ANY fishing method in our waters that would require an anchor!
As for overnights or permanent "on the hook" moorings, a pure chain is the best, at least I can't think of any boat, beyond dinghy or skiff size, that carries rope.

As for long, I consider anything beyond normal, for our size boats normal would be anywhere between 50-70 meters all chain. 8mm thickness. There is a formula somewhere that explains how much that weighs in, if I remember correctly for my 55 meters/8mm chain I think it's the equivalent of a male crew sitting on the bow.

[Tony Meola]

John

Actually sounds similar to what we face out here.

I use a 16 lb anchor in the ocean and 12 lb in the bay. The chain is 3/8 6ft in the bay. As I said 10 in the Ocean with the 16 lb danforth. Most of my fishing is drifting anchoring only for occasional wreck fishing.

We tend to use a grappling anchor for wreck fishing so that is a whole different ball game.

If you use an anchor ball to help lift the anchor then i would go with the extra weight. If you just man handle it then try to use what is comfortable for you.

[JohnV8r]

Tony,

I have a Lighthouse windlass That does all the heavy lifting.

JohnV8r

[Amberjack]

John--Back to your original question, I carry 90' of 5/16" chain backed up by 250 feet of 5/8" line. So my total ground tackle weight load is: fortress anchor 12 lbs, chain 90 lbs, windlass 22 lbs = total 124 lbs. This compares to the boat's original ground tackle which was 22 lbs anchor and 60 lbs chain = 82 lbs. So I added about 42 lbs and it is a bit noticable but the boat still performs as intended and I sleep well at anchor. The line splices directly onto the chain and the Lewmar gypsy handles both without issue.

Wish I had done this 4 years ago before I ruptured a disc pulling the old 22 lb Danforth with 60 feet of chain by hand out of the mud in Reid Harbor, total load with the mud probably 90-95 lbs and there went my back.

Yannis, that is a lot of ground tackle but we anchor out a lot. Most of the time its in sand or mud 25-35' in protected harbors so I use only the chain. Occasionally we drop the anchor on a sharply sloping bottom in 90-95', then stern tie to shore with about 150' -250' of chain and line out so essentially we're anchoring uphill--it works. It can get deep close to shore up here and that is the only way to stay put in some beautiful coves.

[Carl]

[quote="] Occasionally we drop the anchor on a sharply sloping bottom in 90-95', then stern tie to shore with about 150' -250' of chain and line out so essentially we're anchoring uphill--it works. It can get deep close to shore up here and that is the only way to stay put in some beautiful coves.[/quote]


I did something similar years ago in a cove up the Hudson River. Dropped front anchor in Deep water at 90' or so then backed into the cove into as shallow water as I dared. Then dropped rear anchor, pulled the front in a bit till I was in 10' of water. Only 150' of rope with 6' of chain on rear anchor, I use for the beach or emergency. Anyway I woke up to the stern anchor hanging straight down off my stern cleat. I'm lucky the front didn't pull or drag out too. My punishment was a longer cold swim to shore with the dog in the morning. She just would not go on the boat. It made the hot coffee taste better when we got back though.

I should have swam the back anchor in using all the available line...but seemed to be holding well and quite calm up the river. Lesson learned.

[Yannis]

Doug,

I also have an aluminum fortress as a second anchor with just 3 meters of heavy 12mm chain. This anchor grabs so well it is very difficult at times to set it free from a sandy bottom. I also believe the tree tie up version is always safer.
Yes, it could be tricky to moor in sharply sloping bottoms, I see what you mean bringing to my mind these beautiful fjord like coves at your area that are essentially mountain slopes covered by water. We have these too, but to a much lesser degree than you.
I also have a problematic back, soooo this winter I will put a sailboat winch on the gunnel so that I can pull mooring lines and rear anchor lines. I figured it’s better to spend it on hardware than on chiropractors and ointments!

Carl,

The Aegean and the Mediterranean in general is a sea where if you do not take precautions for sudden wind direction changes you're in trouble.
So I understand exactly what you mean by an anchor hanging from a cleat...
I firmly believe a tree (rare) or a rock (not so rare) are your friends. To that effect both me and my friends we made custom belts with D rings at both ends so we can easily wrap around rocks; I also carry a magic stainless tiny four pointed anchor that I can throw into rock crevices, as it is sometimes more practical.

[Amberjack]

Doug,

I see what you mean bringing to my mind these beautiful fjord like coves at your area that are essentially mountain slopes covered by water..

This picture was taken near Turn Point, Stuart Island looking into British Columbia (ohhh Canada!!). My Fathometer was reading 864 feet.

[Yannis]

Beautiful!
300 meters deep? this must be very interesting in snorkeling, or even better in scuba diving, just to see what creatures can live in those depths...
I understand that water temp must be a bit chilly...at times!
I don't recall if except for the beautiful scenery there exist any beaches (usually found) at the inner corner of each cove. Not that it would change anything, rather that thanks to the beach there may possibly exist shallower waters in that area for dropping anchor plus tie up to a tree.