Anyplace to get fiberglass shaft log tube by the foot?

[Carl]

So I was all set to buy the fiberglass tubing to glass in new shaft logs.

According to Capt Pats directives, it's 3' in two sizes for each side...pricey for what it is, but so be it.

Till I call and it's only sold in full 10' lengths. So of course now it 3 times the price with 2/3rds as waste.

Has to be a place that sells smaller sections, No?

Been googling and googling

I can buy glass structural and turn down to what I need...but green structural says not good for outdoors??
Beats me why its polyester, same as Centek tubes, but they use strands over filiments.. Not sure, but kinda important part to be guessing.
Maybe I'll just stick with using the original log.

[bob lico]

very,very sore point for me because i did something stupid as i recall. i purchase Kevlar glass tubes and then not thinking i tryed to cut to lenrth with new 80 tooth carbide blade in chop saw. i whole lot of sparks and very expensive blade was wipe out.my shaft log was done 15 years ago and still perfect i purchase from on line industrial company surply and was able to purchase one 2" ID. and one 2 1/2" ID. in 6'. just cote outside the 2" id with epoxy and slide inside 2 1/2" pipe leaving 3" of exposed inner pipe for the PSS. bellows to go over. change subject what feels like little over a hundred years ago i had to do critical control work for MTA. a railroad bridge over Reynolds channel the electricians pipe out the bridge for controls in a fiberglass pipe impervious to salt water,sunlight,hot,cold conditions so i would look into special purpose fiberglass electrical pipe for bridge and tunnel. really great product!!!!

[Snipe]

Carl I bought mine at https://www.fisheriessupply.com/shoppingcart.aspx click on foot and put in what you want and add it to the cart it is sold by the foot.

[Carl]

Carl I bought mine at https://www.fisheriessupply.com/shoppingcart.aspx click on foot and put in what you want and add it to the cart it is sold by the foot.

Thanks, I'll call them again in the morning. They did not have the size I needed listed and told me it was sold in full lengths only. Hopefully they are wrong.

[Reelcrazy]

try calling forked river diesel they supplied the fg tubes for my bahia mar

[Rawleigh]

Carl: If you have the time you can make your own by using PVC pipe with plastic sheeting wrapped over it for a mandrel to wrap cloth around. We used to do that way back when I worked in a boatyard in high school. None of the fancy stuff was available back then so we made it.

[Carl]

Carl: If you have the time you can make your own by using PVC pipe with plastic sheeting wrapped over it for a mandrel to wrap cloth around. We used to do that way back when I worked in a boatyard in high school. None of the fancy stuff was available back then so we made it.

Rawleigh- Thank you, I was thinking about making. But its a whole lot of glassing to go from a 2"ID to a 3" OD X 18" long...and by hand it would be miserable trying to keep even...or worse trying to machine true...I'm itching already. But maybe I can do a portion as its the 2-1/2 x 3" they are not stocking and wanted me to buy 10'. Or they stocked 2-5/8" ID...maybe glass a layer over, then thicken some epoxy to assemble and seal.

If it wasn't a "huge integral part going through the bottom of the boat" I'd feel better tweaking the Captains design.

[Carl]

Carl I bought mine at https://www.fisheriessupply.com/shoppingcart.aspx click on foot and put in what you want and add it to the cart it is sold by the foot.

Yup, that's what they do...only neither size is in stock with a month plus backorder

Thanks, I'll call them again in the morning. They did not have the size I needed listed and told me it was sold in full lengths only. Hopefully they are wrong.

Had confused with another marine dealer I spoke with that has, but only sells in 10'.

[bob lico]

there is another option off course.purchase fiberglass exhaust pipe from centek. 2" id is important part whatever OD is it can be dealth with chuck it up on the lathe and sand flat with long board and 40 grit and make it 2/1/2 OD next by what ever you can get with 2 1/2' ID and you may have to build up inner as for the outter pipe WHO CARES WHAT SIZE OD IS.

[Carl]

there is another option off course.purchase fiberglass exhaust pipe from centek. 2" id is important part whatever OD is it can be dealth with chuck it up on the lathe and sand flat with long board and 40 grit and make it 2/1/2 OD next by what ever you can get with 2 1/2' ID and you may have to build up inner as for the outter pipe WHO CARES WHAT SIZE OD IS.

OD only matters for strength. I was reluctant to glass up the OD to a size...kept thinking water gets in...freeze, next year boats swimming with the fishies.



I was playing with available sizes in stock all day from multiple sources...thought I tried this one, but apparently not...or maybe they got a delivery.

Centek shaft log stock
2" ID x 2-1/4"
2-1/4" x 3"

Epoxy together, turn the 3" to 2-1/2" dia for dripless...yes you guys brought me over to the dark side.

All ordered, and I have a project for next week.


Appreciate the help from all.





For the life of my I do not know why the McMaster stuff is not outdoor rated...or what that means. Called to inquire and they said maybe UV issues...but I'm using underwater...is that ok? Not sure, we'll get back to you. Would have been perfect 2 x 3" Turn it down for packing and good.

But its a big hole to be playing with in the bottom of the boat...actually its two big holes to be playing guessing games.


https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-round ... ollow-bars

[Snipe]

Carl I used 2.38” ID x 3”OD inside and 3” ID x 3.5 OD works perfectly after I sanded the inside tube. I am going with 1 3/4” shafts. It may work for you as well. https://www.shaftseal.com/pss-pro-shaft-seal.html

[bob lico]

gentlemen the only dimension that counts is the ID. of the inner pipe. 1/4" clearance all around the spinning shaft, thus 2" ID for 1 1/2" shaft the rest is strength. keep in mind the PSS bellows for 1 1/2" shaft fit on 2 1/2 .which is to OD. of the inner-tube. ok lets also remember that EPOXY pipe or covered pipe cannot carry an outside rating because it will deteriorate in sunlight (UV). use Centek 2x 2 1/4 then 2 1/4 x3 . ok try and follow my explanation (not easy) make the inner pipe stick out enough to accept the PSS bellows plus a 1/2" so you don`t have to turn the whole assembly down. this 3" pipe will end up being more than 4" thick after you build up a taper the 6" protrusion out the bottom will be 5" flared and inside i went all the way from cloth,biax,and woven roven in epoxy painted with 4 coats of 545 awlgrip follow by top coat. made to go agound at wot. throttle.i already posted a photo in another post of the completed job on Phoenix.

[Carl]

Bob- I am doing almost exactly what you are saying...

Except I will epoxy Inner and outer tubes flush at both ends. After epoxy sets, I can then machine one end to 2-1/2" dia for 2" or so for the LAsdrop dripless seal.

2" ID X 2-1/2" OD gives me 1/4" wall, plenty of meat. I would not be comfortable clamping on a 1/8" fiberglass wall for a stuffing box.

Large diameter fiberglass exhaust tube is 5/32" wall, larger diameter gives extra strenght, its stationary, well supported with no real forces exerted on it. That's fine with me...but a rotating shaft inside of tube...shaft takes a good bump...1/8" wall is not alot.
Then again 1/8" is thicker then the hull was on the 19' Bayliner I had for a season....many years back.

Carl I used 2.38” ID x 3”OD inside and 3” ID x 3.5 OD works perfectly after I sanded the inside tube. I am going with 1 3/4” shafts. It may work for you as well. https://www.shaftseal.com/pss-pro-shaft-seal.html

2.38 ID would not have worked for me as the LasDrop hose on the packing box only comes 2-1/2" for 1-1/2" shafts...that would only leave me with a 1/16" wall to clamp on. The PSS seals have the option to go larger on the bellows so yes, I can see that working well for you.




Again...I appreciate all the help.

Shaft Log Materail will be in Tuesday, Seals arrived this morning...next step is ready to come together.

That will give me time to finish setting in strut backing pads and finally mount a strut.

[Rawleigh]

Are you going to use coolant to keep the dust down when you machine it or a shop vac to suck up the dust ? What tooling do you use to machine fiberglass (other than a grinder). Never tried it in the lathe before.

[Carl]

Are you going to use coolant to keep the dust down when you machine it or a shop vac to suck up the dust ? What tooling do you use to machine fiberglass (other than a grinder). Never tried it in the lathe before.

Dry, no coolant. dust gets into the coolant and will contaminate everything...into the slides and ways, huge mess...dry.

Tooling can be anything really. Fiberglass cuts like butter, very abrasive, but cuts easy enough. Only it likes sharp positive tooling or it pushes away, rubs. I'll most likely use HSS as its quick and easy to tweak for something soft, maybe a quick resharpen to finish the size.
Although not much cutting and may not be needed.
Carbide works too...but most of my stuff is now indexable with larger nose radius's and larger lands then needed for fiberglass. I could tweak on a diamond wheel, but why screw up a $18.00 insert.

Using a Shop Vac is a yes and I'll turn at low speed just to keep the dust down to a minimum. Couple hundred rpm.
I could spin it fast to make time, but then its spend an hour cleaning the mess.

Fibrous material is something I avoid maching, won't do in a CNC anymore...the cleanup is horrendous. Also will not do during shop hours...I don't like the fibers and dust that gets in the air no matter what you try.

[RAWicklund]

Carl,
I’m not much help, as I didn’t pay close enough attention. But just to share a little from our trip to Tropic Star last month. We got a whirlwind tour of the boat shop and the foreman, Rudy, showed us a few 31s under repair. All FG tubes for the upgrades. He uses pvc and an engine template to set angle. I thought he said that the PVC stays in place and is glassed over but didn’t pay close enough attention to be positive. Dripless couplings and All shafts are still 1 3/8”.....but may change some out later. He spoke of a new cutlass Bering they were planning on using with existing struts.....hard polymer material rather then rubber. Good luck on your project.....I promise to pay closer attention next time.

Ray

[Carl]

Carl,
I’m not much help, as I didn’t pay close enough attention. But just to share a little from our trip to Tropic Star last month. We got a whirlwind tour of the boat shop and the foreman, Rudy, showed us a few 31s under repair. All FG tubes for the upgrades. He uses pvc and an engine template to set angle. I thought he said that the PVC stays in place and is glassed over but didn’t pay close enough attention to be positive. Dripless couplings and All shafts are still 1 3/8”.....but may change some out later. He spoke of a new cutlass Bering they were planning on using with existing struts.....hard polymer material rather then rubber. Good luck on your project.....I promise to pay closer attention next time.

Ray

Thank Ray.
The polymer might be "Thordon". Great stuff, can go thinner then the brass sleeve Cutless bearing so sometimes can get away with not having to change strut to go up a shaft size. Material is also very low friction.
My struts had very thin barrels, no chance of opening up a size and meant for 15" wheels...going to a 20" the wheel would not even be able to turn with original struts.
Someone asked me if I could use PVC as a shaft log. I really don't know and as it's going in bottom of boat or a better way of putting it it will be the bottom of the boat...this job I"ll follow the expertise Of Captain Patrick to a T.

[bob lico]

inside a picture worth a thousand words aparantly.

[bob lico]

outside ------completed bottom view you might also check out unique struct beraring detail again no marine mechanic on boat for obvious reasons.

[bob lico]

carl i like to tell you captain patrick sent me a PM 15 years ago based on my analyses of adding two inche of shaft log over his method of F/G shaft log hesaid he would use my my design over his,quite a compliment back in the day. God bless that man.

[Carl]

outside ------completed bottom view you might also check out unique struct beraring detail again no marine mechanic on boat for obvious reasons.

Not sure what you are referring to...I think I see 3 set screws and the bearing was left full length. Some feel a need to trim even with strut...but more bearing surface is beneficial. Maybe I'm missing something.

carl i like to tell you captain patrick sent me a PM 15 years ago based on my analyses of adding two inche sover his method of F/G shaft log he would use my my design over his,quite a compliment back in the day. God bless that man.

I wish I measured before I ordered the shaft log tubing. I went with Captains Pats 18" of tube per side. Problem is Captain Patrick kept stock 15° angle. Going 11-12° more of the shaft lives inside the hull cross section, plus it happens closer to midship making for a long hole in bottom. Wish I oredered longer lengths...only going to be a nub protruding from bottom. Eh, I'm only going to be in 20-22 knot cruise range. It will be fine.

[bob lico]

i did not trim struct bearings ,the more support the better , that is what i was refering too. i use 24" outer and 29" inner tube.
shaft log extends 6" from bottom of boat streamlined going toward stern.

[Carl]

Bob,

24 and 29"...would have been better. If I find 18" is too short, I'll buy another set of tubes.

I checked quick, looks like I have enough to get through hull with a couple inches inside to turn down for dripless seal, plus have some of the tube coming out the bottom.

I know you went longer on the shaft log for performance purposes...

For me, Its all about the strength, I want to see heavy filleted fiberglass inside and outside the hull.
The only way I could go longer with the tube was with water injection, that was my main reason for going dripless.

Cutting shaft log flush to bottom of hull had me rethinking going that route...long shaft (lever) inside and glue log in.
Yeah I know scarf and fillets...but I want to see it when I'm done.


More bearing surface is better, yes I only trim longer Cutless bearings when customers request after my leave it long recommendations and reasoning.

Another upgrade you may consider when your Cutless bearings wear out, look into Thordon Bearings or similar.
We started using for commercial guys in heavily silted water as standard bearings wore too fast.
Then for recreational/commercial - as only so many brass bearing choices available when trying to go up a shaft size. Thordon did not require a shell and could be made quite thin saving some customers a good amount of coin over new struts and intermediates.
The side benefit was many claimed better economy even when going up a shaft size. Down side is its a good idea to have a 2nd set made up as they are made to order and nobody wants to wait for materail to come in and wait for bearings to be made if your down. Then again the commercial guys that went through bearing ever few years...they never wore them out.

https://thordonbearings.com/marine/merc ... ng-systems



PS---We no longer stock Thordon, not what we do anymore, not drumming up business.

[bob lico]

good tip from experience on the struct bearing . one thing you can count on and that is if you do every single project yourself after doing research you still slip up.i was also looking for strength and went with kevlar tubes trying for maximum strength but as i said you have to learn to work with kevlar it is not resin nor epoxy a whole new product and you don`t cut with carbide saw!!!!! another mistake just like building all the engine mounts in titanium ----nice move but you forgot you have to cross drill with 1/2" bolts 16 times with hand drill!!!----ouch.
live and learn

[Carl]

. one thing you can count on and that is if you do every single project yourself after doing research "you still slip up" .

Yes sir I do know that, luckily when I "slip up" I am usually the first to catch the goof and get to fix before noticed. Not that I care much about "slipping up"...but that's when you get tons of reasons why it shouldn't have done it that way in the first place. Its those times All I'm thinking is "No Kidding I did it wrong"...where was your voice last week when I said this is how I planned to go about doing it...any ideas why or why not. Monday morning quarterbacks I think the term is.

i was also looking for strength and went with kevlar tubes trying for maximum strength but as i said you have to learn to work with kevlar it is not resin nor epoxy a whole new product and you don`t cut with carbide saw!!!!! another mistake just like building all the engine mounts in titanium ----nice move but you forgot you have to cross drill with 1/2" bolts 16 times with hand drill!!!----ouch.

Kevlar I have not had the pleasure if working with. Titanium is fun...and a hoot with hand tools!

live and learn

Not that's the ultimate truth.

...and when possible learn from other peoples successes and mistakes.

[Carl]

Bob,

24 and 29"...would have been better. If I find 18" is too short, I'll buy another set of tubes.

First time since I started this project I have been able to chug away at it for a couple days in a row. Small setback finding out the 36" shaft log tubes I oredered might be a bit too short for my liking.

But Hey Hey Hey...the large diameter Tube that was supposed to be 36" came in just a tad under 48" or as I see it an extra 6" per side, heavy wall stuff...It's going to work perfectly. I'm so happy about that, I'm going to call and pay for the extra foot of material they sent!

Tomorrow we start making shafts!