Anyone have a 31 with Cummins 504's?????????????????

[badfish34]

Hello, I am new to this site. Great site by the way.

I am considering purchasing a 31 Bertram with 195HP naturally aspirated Cummins 504's. Does any one have any experience with these engines? I believe the boat was originally sold with these engines in 1980.

Does anyone have any thouhgts on what to expect. Cruising speed?, Mileage?, any known issues with these engines?

[In Memory Walter K]

Welcome aboard. Don't know if this helps. I have a 64 Sportsfisherman. Older boats had heavier hulls. Mine has a teak deck which makes it even heavier. It is powered with Cummins 6bt 210 hp engines turning 20X20 cupped props. At 2400 rpm's she cruises at 21-22.8 kts depending on the direction of the tide. She burns 7-8 gallons per hour per engine and averages out at about 1.5 mpg. Walter

[scot]

I have a good friend that has a 31 with the natural 504's. To my knowledge he has never had any "major" problems with the engines. With only 195hp on each side and 2,000lbs per engine the boat is a slow battering ram. 1 ton worth of naturally aspirated Cummins V8 has got to last forever.

I have fished on he boat once, if your in no hurry it's a super smooth ride! If my memory serves me the boat cruised around 16-17knots with a load of 6 anglers +gear.

[Hay3006]

The 504's were the predecessors of the famed 5.9L 6BT diesel series made by Cummins since the mid 1980's and is still being used today. Those engines should turn 3000 RPM if memory serves me correctly. I think I recall a 19 knot cruise with good fule economy for sure.

There are issues with that engine package in a Bertram 31:
1) The engines are in a very tight space and not easy to work on. It is difficult to do any work without bleeding. Finding someone who will work on them, and knows how, is another issue.
2) Parts are extremely expensive for a diesel that has not been made for over 25 years
3) The sea water cooling system needs replaced and it is VERY expensive to do so after about 25 years. Accessing the bottom of the engine for inspection of rusted out parts, mounts, etc. is another issue.

My advice would be to buy the boat with the intention of repowering it almost immediately.

[Dug]

I fished on a B31 in Anguilla that had those motors I think. The thing was so loud I should have worn earplugs, and was the as slow as a dingy with a 4 horse outboard on the tail.

And one just blew 2 months ago.

Now, I don't know much about the care and feeding that they recieved, though the boat is owned by a guy who used it to feed his family for quite a while.

But I would say that would not be my chosen power package, that is for sure.

If you love the boat, then buy it, kill the engines and repower. If you have no strong feelings about the particular boat, the engines may just be the kiss of death for the deal.

On the other side of the coin, and this is just my opinion, they are probably better than gas Chrysler 440's! But remember I suffered with those for a day or two too long...

Dug

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Sounds like Dug may have been on a boat with 453 Detroits. The 504 Cummins is a V8, heavy and big. I fished for years on an old wooden Post powered with 504 naturals - slow boat, but much more dependable than gas. Parts are expenisve, but used engines are fairly cheap. Ernest and I followed Fuzzy Snapper from Galveston to Port Eads a few years ago, and their 504's ran very good. They had done a lot of cruising with the engines, and expected to get a lot more use out of them. Cruise was about 18 knots, I believe. 504's are not excessively loud, in my experience, and have the deep, throaty sound of all the old low rpm diesels. I wouldn't repower with them, but you might be able to get some time out of them. I know guys who replaced them with 6BTA's and very very happy they did.

[In Memory of Vicroy]

Dug, not as loud as the Detroit 4-53s, but the 504s are not a good engine for todays B31 with much better diesels out there that can replace them for not as much money as some think. The crossover pipes between the V-8 cylinder banks on the 504s rust out and the engines have to be removed to change them I hear. I also hear that the engines have to be removed to change anything on them for that matter....big, wide V-8 diesels, old tech, as someone said, parts not real available and when you can find them, real expensive..plus makes for a 16-17 kt. boat....as opposed to the Cat 3208s that are big, wide, heavy, but you can get parts pretty easy. The Cummins and Yannies make the B31 a 24-26 kt boat at an easy cruise, and Dick Bertram is smiling seeing his boats with a flat wake at those speeds....worth the price of engine admission.

Speaking of Detroit 4-53s, that's all they use at TSL in Panama, rebuild them at the lodge. Talk about loud at cruise, you new guys going to TSL in a few weeks, bring some soft foam ear plugs like you would use on a firing range.....most of the crew don't speak English anyway, but do real good on hand signals, plus if Randall is fishing on your boat he can draw so fast they get it. Report is they T&R 592 sails last week vs. our puny 236 last time we went. As one of the Faithful told me last week, he's looking forward to TSL like going to a brothel for a week on someone else's nickel.....

UV

[badfish34]

Thanks for all the great feed back, I knew I could get the right answer here. The broker was trying to tell me it would cruise at 21knts and top out at 27 knts.

I think I am going to pass on this boat and keep looking. I dont mind a project, but I would really like to find one that I dont have to repower.

[Capn' Tony]

Welcome,
I run an '80 FBC with the same engines on Cape Cod and have owed her for 12 years. I can tell you from experience they are trustworthy work horses that have always gotten me home.
As someone stated they are rated at 3000RPM I cruise at 2700 and push about 17knots with full tank. For some near shore fishing I run half filled and pick up another knot. They burn about 12 GPH total for both so they are not expensive to run.
I would rather go fast and dip into my pocket for fuel but the damn things won't wear out and 50K to repower is not in the very near future, while these beasts are chugging along.
They are noisy and tuff to work on especially the outboard sides. When you change the port side impeller of the raw water pump wear a chest protector. You will work blind and tightening the pulley is a bear. I thought of cutting an access hole in the bulkhead behind the seat but too many wires to reroute.
When were the injector pump last on worked, injectors rebuilt and when were they last tuned? These three things although no cheap to do will make a major difference in performance.

[Dug]

Mike,

The owner told me they were Cummins. Old ones. I never asked to open the hatch as I would have been as deaf as if I had been standing near a 747 at liftoff.

They were not 4-53's.

That speed sounds right. I think the boat topped out at 17.

Loud as hell. And slower.

But it was a Bertram 31! And that is a good thing!

[joeh]

Here is the link to a brochure that I sent to Capt Pat.

http://bertram31.com/articles/b31_72broch.pdf

It may be the same engines that you are wondering about. Hope this helps.

Joe

[scot]

I never asked to open the hatch

Dug...I have no concept of this statement, your a better man than me.

[34Hatt]

I had a pair of 504's in my Hatt that came out of a B31. I agree can't kill them so I gave up and sold them. My pair were 202 hp and rated at 3300 rpm. And yes they are loud my pair 330bs make less noise then one of the 504's.

[gplume]

I have 504's in my boat. They run good, and cruising speed is about 17knots at about 2600. , Tapped out you might get just over 20 at around 3k. A little loud, but not as bad as detroit 2 cycles. I am boating on a budget, and this is what I can afford, so this what I am running, end of story. Working around them...very tight. The boat has been in the family for over 10 years with no mechanical issues.

Giff