Rudders- The Same or Different. Let the Jury decide.

[Carl]

Wow...I can't believe this went way back to June, time flies.





So when we last left off there was the question as to whether this was the same rudder as on my 1962 31 Express. One that I believe to be stock.


I bumped the post up for review, but here is a screenshot for quick reference.












So without further delay





Kind Gentleman of the Sandbox, I call on you to review the provided evidence and decide if indeed these are the same Rudders.






Please do not jump to any conclusions.
I could take pictures from additional angles...or perhaps give a good scrapping and painting. Whatever is needed for an accurate determination, let me know and I will take care of it. I only provided a quick power wash so as not to tamper with the evidence.




Remember, this is a very serious matter a Cold Beer is at stake here!








Drum roll please.

















And one picture to tie it to my boat.













Tony says they are different. If they are determined to be different, I will gladly buy Tony a Beer of his choice.


I say they are the same rudders, if it is determined they are indeed the same, Tony buys me a Cold Beer.



So Gentlemen of the Sandbox, it is now time - - WHO buys the Beer?



Thank you in advance for your time and consideration,

Carl

[Rawleigh]

I don't know. My 66 has the sharkfins on it.

[SteveM]

looks identical, ...except his are cleaner! LOL

[Bob S]

Looks similar but where is the hole for the zinc?

[Tony Meola]

Carl

You need to either use a good antifouling paint on that rudder or use the boat more.

[Carl]

Carl

You need to either use a good antifouling paint on that rudder or use the boat more.

I only use antifoul on running gear "if" I'm in the area and don't feel like moving AND the brush or roller is loaded with paint, otherwise its a light scrape, clean zinc area, ready to splash.

Using the boat more would help...but there is one barnacle, the rest are those white lil-wannabees starters that blew off before I hauled and pressure washed.

[MikeD@Lightningshack]

I think they look the same, but neither looks like the rudders that were stock on my 1969. I replaced them with Pat's rudders well over 10 years ago. My memory may be rusty at best, but I'd sware my originals were thinner and had less surface area then both of the rudders in the pictures.

[Charlie J]

i agree with mike
original rudders were thinner
these are not stock to thick on top

[Yannis]

Carl,

Is the question whether these are “the same” rudders, or if they are “stock”?

They look identical, but whether they are original or not, I wouldnt know.
The stakes are so high that precision in answering this capital question is in order !!

[Carl]

Carl,

Is the question whether these are “the same” rudders, or if they are “stock”?

They look identical, but whether they are original or not, I wouldnt know.
The stakes are so high that precision in answering this capital question is in order !!

The bet is if my rudders were the same as the rudder depicted in Mizerita's picture.
I showed a picture of mine and some one said they looked different, I said it was do to the angle....blah blah blah



Original rudders? I think they are

[Yannis]

Carl,

My vote, then, is that they appear the same in the pics.
As much as it may hurt my heart, someone in Joisy may have to pay for a beer!! Lol !!

[MikeD@Lightningshack]

I would think they were original, but I'd be pretty confident that Bertram made a change to a thinner and smaller rudder sometime prior to 1969, based on my recollection, and others confirming. I looked for my old ones today, but I think somebody bought them from me at some point.

[Carl]

Carl,

My vote, then, is that they appear the same in the pics.
As much as it may hurt my heart, someone in Joisy may have to pay for a beer!! Lol !!

So Yannis, how did you pick up a Joisy accent?

[Pete Fallon]

Carl,
They are the same, my 1961 Express had the same style rudders from the Bertram factory. I was with Capt. Pat when he took the measurements off my rudders in the boat yard at South Florida Yachts in Riviera Beach, my boat was on the hard right next to Palm Beach Lady which had the 28 style rudders. Capt. Pat had Bobby Soles Prop Shop make the new style oversized rudders he added an inch to the length and had the leading edge and aft edges tapered a bit but that was about all. I don't care who buys the beer as long as it's ice cold.
Pete Fallon

[Yannis]

Carl,

I never did !
I can only tell one, because I was once nearby in Bethlehem, PA, when I was a student at Lehigh and was going through Jersey on my way to NY...I remember it was on Route 22, sometimes I would also spend some time here and there in NJ.

After graduation, it was the 3rd of July, a friend took me to a NJ beach, I cannot remember which one, where we stayed at a motel by the beach for a night or two, and then he drove me to JFK to catch my last flight back. It was the first time I came so close to the Atlantic, we even swam in the sea, it was so cold I can never forget!

Dont ask me, Im scared to do the calculations how far back in time all that was...

[MikeD@Lightningshack]

Some side by sides pics of the my 1969 originals and Capt. Pat's replacement rudders.

An upgrade from these original rudders to something larger was worthwhile. If you have larger rudders already, I'd argue that you won't find enough of a difference to warrant the cost of the upgrade.

[Carl]

Thanks for posting those pictures Mike.

I never realized just how small the later "original" rudders were. All these years on this forum hearing about how the rudders were too small and seeing what Capt Pat was offering I just didnt get it. Yeah...my boat didn't handle like a sports car but I thought it steered pretty well and I never had issue trolling on a single motor. I thought about brazing a little to the rudder for a little better performance, but seemed to be more trouble then it was worth. Now I can see why, my rudders are only slightly smaller then the upgrades.

But holy cow, those originals are minuscule, I can't imagine trying to steer with them...

[John F.]

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... 679#p96679

[Tony Meola]

Yannis

You were in NJ and didn't call? My feelings are hurt. Lol. I figure somewhere around 1973 give or take 2 years. How close am I.


Carl might die of thirst waiting until May for that 100 dollar in tolls beer.

[Yannis]

OMG, Tony, I’m not that old !
It was back in 84-86, but I didn’t know you back then...

Like I said, I dont remember where that beach was, however we could see the fireworks from (I think) the statue of liberty in the night of the 4th of july.
Oh, we also got fined while on the beach by a tricycle cop, because we had brought a cooler on the beach with a few beers in it!!! I never understood why you cannot drink a beer in the open...but you still can, if you wrap a craft paper bag around it!

[Carl]

Our laws do not always make much sense. But it's a way to curtail openly running around with open alcohol containers.
It's brown paper bags most of the time, although I'm sure craft paper could work.
If you thought Jersey water in July was frigid you have to give it a try early June before it warms up.


So if you were on 22, heading to JFK seeing the Fireworks by the Statue of Liberty I'd have to guess you passed right through Staten Island. 4th of July Fireworks used to be done in NY harbor as well as in the East River.

Bethlehem in 84/85 I was up there bit diving the quarries...now talk about cold water!

[Tony Meola]

Yannis

I wsss guessing by the roads you were using. Route 78 was not fully complete back then and most people used 22 instead of 78. I used to use both. 78 until I had to get on 22.

Now we found out how old you are. Lol.

[Yannis]

Tony, I’m 28 lol !

Carl, this water is melted snow from the Poconos, not even in a swimsuit...