Newbie just got my new toy and have paperwork questions

[WAC]

Well I finally got the boat I have been wanting since I was a kid. I managed to acquire a 1971 Flybridge Cruiser. She is still gas powered but I am ready for some fun while I restore her. This site is great, and the wealth of knowledge is awesome. My last restoration was a Boston Whaler and the Whaler Central guys have the same passion I see here. Just good stuff.
My question is HIN# and documentation.
The vessel had always been documented with a Hull# 315-1230. That is on the original documents from Bertram. The last owner when changing ownership left it undocumented and the DMV here in California created a HIN# with 13 digits. When I had her surveyed yesterday I learned that the old boats didn't have HIN#'s but that 13 digits was typically too many. I am curious as to how this has been handled with other 31's. I am changing the ownership papers and I want to get it documented but I think I should straiten this out now if possible.
Does anyone have knowledge of or have a story of what they did or if they had a similar situation? Is there a proper way to create your own HIN# based on the hull# and production information?
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

Wayne
Still in search of proper name for her.

[CamB25]

Congratulations on your new friend!

My 63 has a made up HIN from Mass. 12 digits. The HIN did not change when I re-titled in VA. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Tommy]

Congratulations Wayne.

A state has the right to do as they choose regarding the establishment of "state registration" numbers, but I believe the hull # 315-1230 established at the Bertram plant for your boat will always remain the actual hull number.

For the benefit of guys who may not have been around when previously discussed, Bertram Yacht established their hull numbers as follows (according to Lee Dana, chief engineer at Bertram Yacht in the 60s and 70s):

Regarding your hull # 315-1230, the first three numbers designates the model type: 312 = Open Convertible (also referred to as the "Moppie"; 313 = Hardtop; 314 = Sport Fisherman; 315 = Flybridge Cruiser; 316 = Bahia Mar; 317 = Express Cruiser.

The first fiberglass hull Bertram built was hull #101 (named "Glass Moppie" it raced and won the 1961 Miami-Nassau Powerboat Race). The hull numbers followed sequentially so the your hull # 315-1230 is the Flybridge Cruiser model and is the 1129th Bertram 31 hull manufactured (1230 - 101 = 1129).

[ranjr13]

Welcome and congrats! I documented our 31 when we got her last year on the USCG website. I used the HIN as the VIN, 31-394 I believe. After about 3 weeks they emailed back saying they wanted a copy of the previous registration. The HIN was on the previous registration. I'm not sure what the USCG will say about yours. They may require something else or a verification somehow if you want to use the HIN. The other thing is to calculate the gross tonnage heavy enough to qualify for documentation on the worksheet they have you fill out. I can email you copies of all my application paperwork if that would help when you get around to it. Do the documentation yourself - don't pay an agency to do it. Congrats again, and post some pics when you can. Best wishes for a wonderful restoration project and many years of enjoyment.

[Bob Patton]

Wayne,
My 31 has California registration, and was previously documented. The DMV used the documentation number as the HIN number. Some one sistered a piece of wood next to the inboard stringer under the starboard engine and carved the documentation number into it. (Shades of old wooden boat documentation practices) If you want to re document the boat it would be easy to use the existing plate that has the documentation number on it. When they carved the doc number into a wooden boat the theory was it was an integral part of the boat and could not be removed. I would assume you have the old doc number somewhere on the boat, if so, you can just redoc with that number.
Bob

[WAC]

Hey guys, thanks for the info. I have previous documentation from the owner prior to the folks I bought her from. The issue is the pink has completely different numbers created by the DMV. I believe I will try to do the documentation utilizing the created HIN# as it incorporates the hull #.
When I did my Whaler I made a stainless hull tag to replace the original aluminum one. I stamped it then bedded it on 5200. Looks good and not going anywhere. I can do the same here but I just want to make sure that things are as correct as possible. Plus I want to preserve any significant numbering especially what Tommy pointed out as that tells the story.
I would love to see examples ranjr13. I have quite a bit of stuff but the information varies quite a bit from the original owner to where it is now. I do have the original documentation from delivery. I'm the type that wants to clean it all up and make it historically correct. A bit fussy but it's what makes me tick. Any and all advice is more than welcomed and appreciated.

I tried to post pics but either I don't know how or it won't let me.

Thanks, Wayne

[Tony Meola]

Wayne

Take a look up around the v berth and at the transom right in the middle just under the deck. On the earlier models Bertram glassed in or wrote the hull number.

I am operating from a mobile device this week that will not let me cut and paste a link. But if you use the search function and put in hull number a bunch of posts pop up.

Some good info on how to locate the numbers on older Bertrams.

[ranjr13]

Wayne's too busy starting his project, so here's the first couple pics...

[Tooeez]

If the boat has a lapsed USCG documentation number you should be able to reactivate it, and then use that on the state reg. papers.

[Pete Fallon]

Wayne,
The HIN numbers that you want to use are the original Bertram number 315-1230. Usually found under the Port V berth up high where plywood meets the oak frame or under the cockpit sole midship's up high near the cockpit transom joint.
Federal law requiring 12 digit number to be stamped into the starboard hull under the rub rail or rivoted onto the transom did not go into law until November of 1972.
The old doc number should still be in the USCG records. Doc Center is in West Virginia. The California state reg number should be 12 numbers like every other state in the union. If you find the paper tag take a picture of it and send it in with the rest of the paperwork. I have surveyed over 50 31's and only had 2 that I couldn't find the hull number somewhere on the boat.
Pete Fallon

[WAC]

Bob, thanks for posting the pics. I can't wait to get started.
Tooeez, I do have that and plan on following through as soon as the dust settles. The DMV is a mess but I transferred ownership today just to get it in my name and insured. Gonna try to find the hull ID to confirm and log its location. Unfortunately I have two trips out of the country in the next 5 weeks. Gonna delay getting started. In dry dock now getting the through hulls replaced. Had to get it out of the marina and reapply for the slip. California way of doing things so I just decided to pull it and support the local yard for a few items.
Pete, I have lots of questions as I have looked over a lot of what you have done. Very impressive for sure.
Thanks again for the advice gentlemen!
I'm excited for the new project!
Wayne

[longfin]

Be very careful using Sunset Aquatic, double check their work for anything below the waterline.

[WAC]

longfin, ya I was in a pinch after the survey and had to utilize them for this service. Karl has been great and called today with pics of other issues he found. So far so good. I am very leary of any yard or shops work as I am a bit fussy about anything I don't do my self. I will go over everything done with a fine tooth comb as always, for quality of work and piece of mind. I'm on a need to know basis and I need to know everything if someone else did it.
Have you had issues in the past?