Trying to gather more information while I continue to move forward on the project.
I had mistakenly came up with an incorrect figure for the cost of bracket. Somebody told me I could get a bracket for my b25 for around $1,000-1500. ...They were wrong. I've seen as low as $6,000 and upwards of $8-9000. If I am way off on this, please let me know. I've tried to get in contact with armstrong twice now and they wont respond to me.
Those of you who have brackets or know of relevant information, where did you get yours and how much did it cost? Got any pictures of the inside structure of it?
I'm seriously contemplating designing one and having a good friend of mine weld it up (professional welder). I know many of yal would disagree and tell me its absurd, but I know many of yal come from a lot more money than what I come from as well. Obviously there is a lot of thought that goes into building the right bracket to match your boat. This is the information I'm looking for. The deadrise angle of the transom, height (using a 25" motor), etc. etc. If you have any of this information or can point me in the right direction so I can study it further I would greatly appreciate it.
b25 Bracket design
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
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Navatech
Re: b25 Bracket design
I'd say go out to some places where boats are hauled out and look at as many brackets as you can...
As for fabricating one, it can be done... In fact, it's not that complicated... And cutting aluminum is only slightly harder than cutting wood... The one thing that can bite you in the ass is material... Not all aluminum plates are created equally... Make sure to select material that's more suitable for the marine environment than regular aluminum...
As for fabricating one, it can be done... In fact, it's not that complicated... And cutting aluminum is only slightly harder than cutting wood... The one thing that can bite you in the ass is material... Not all aluminum plates are created equally... Make sure to select material that's more suitable for the marine environment than regular aluminum...
Re: b25 Bracket design
I'm pretty sure Glenn at L&H has done installations from single 250 to twin 300 bracket configurations for the B25 in varying center console versions
Depending on how serious you are about doing this project he should be able to help with some basic information. On the last custom project I was involved with he was excellent about making custom helm and single lever morse conversions.
Good luck
Depending on how serious you are about doing this project he should be able to help with some basic information. On the last custom project I was involved with he was excellent about making custom helm and single lever morse conversions.
Good luck
KR
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
Re: b25 Bracket design
Look up hermco brackets
Made out of fiberglass
3200 for twin design
He has done Bertram
Price list is on his website
Made out of fiberglass
3200 for twin design
He has done Bertram
Price list is on his website
Re: b25 Bracket design
Armstrong quoted me an estimate of $5000.00 you pick it up and install it. I got through ten days ago so pretty recent estimate.
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Corey Mason
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Aug 19th, '14, 07:31
Re: b25 Bracket design
If nava says it can be done, then it must be doable! We tend to disagree usually ;)
Who is Glenn from L&H? Is he a member here? What's a good way to get in touch with him?
I did check out hermco brackets. They are asking $3500 + shipping. Luckily we live in the same state of Florida...but they are located in the "other" Florida. Shipping would still be at least $500 I'm sure. Reasonably priced I'm sure, but still an extra $4,000 for something I think I could probably have done for much cheaper myself. May not be as pretty and will require a lot more work, but it would keep more money in the boat fund to continue on with the project.
Thanks for the idea's guys!
Who is Glenn from L&H? Is he a member here? What's a good way to get in touch with him?
I did check out hermco brackets. They are asking $3500 + shipping. Luckily we live in the same state of Florida...but they are located in the "other" Florida. Shipping would still be at least $500 I'm sure. Reasonably priced I'm sure, but still an extra $4,000 for something I think I could probably have done for much cheaper myself. May not be as pretty and will require a lot more work, but it would keep more money in the boat fund to continue on with the project.
Thanks for the idea's guys!
Re: b25 Bracket design
Corey,
Not that I'm familiar with brackets of any sort, but these prices seem too high for me; I dont know if they're considered normal in the US though.
Anyway, after what I have already done on my boat with my fiberglass guy, I believe that anything is doable and possible.
If you could find a good glass guy and work together on what is to be done, better yet, if you tell or show him some other bracket to copy/paste, then I believe your overall cost will be significantly lower that what those companies ask for.
Not that I'm familiar with brackets of any sort, but these prices seem too high for me; I dont know if they're considered normal in the US though.
Anyway, after what I have already done on my boat with my fiberglass guy, I believe that anything is doable and possible.
If you could find a good glass guy and work together on what is to be done, better yet, if you tell or show him some other bracket to copy/paste, then I believe your overall cost will be significantly lower that what those companies ask for.
1973 B28 FBC/2007 4LHA STP's - "Phantom Duck" - Hull "BER 00794 1172"
Re: b25 Bracket design
Corey,
I don't recall if you are using a single or twins. I purchased a single engine bracket from Stainless Marine for $1500 a few years ago. No internal bracing. I was made from heavy gauge sheet. Brackets occasional pop up in the classifieds on Hull Truth.
The transom angle on my B25 is 14 degrees.
Cam
I don't recall if you are using a single or twins. I purchased a single engine bracket from Stainless Marine for $1500 a few years ago. No internal bracing. I was made from heavy gauge sheet. Brackets occasional pop up in the classifieds on Hull Truth.
The transom angle on my B25 is 14 degrees.
Cam
1963 Bertram 25
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
Re: b25 Bracket design
Glenn is the owner at L&H boats in Stuart they make semi custom 33 footers the original owner is a friend and has done several 25s You can Google L&H boats and look under tHe news section to see the single 250 and twin 300 boats to get an idea.
KR
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
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Howesounder
Re: b25 Bracket design
We made a bracket for a previously single io on a 19 footer. Bracket did double duty to plug the io hole. I just cut all the pieces from 3/8 marine grade aluminum, and had a local welding shop weld it. Beat the living snot out of that boat, repeatedly. Wave jumping and frisky frolics one very blustery day with wind against tide steep waves,... we snapped the 140 Suzuki fourstroke right of the bracket. Bracket was fine, engine was covered under insurance. Never built a bracket before but it seems this one was plenty strong enough. Sides, top and bottom were 1/4" gussets all 3/8" and that back was 1/2" The stainless steel prop cut right through one of the 3/8" X 3" wide flat bar gussets as it propelled itself into the bracket at WOT.......just before one assumes, it stalled by sucking in seawater at full throttle. Cost me about $500 for the welding, and materials.
Steve
Steve
Re: b25 Bracket design
Friend of mine had a bracket made for a 200-250 hp O/B for use on this B20. The project was abandoned, and the bracket sold. Its on another 20' or so something that's running around here. The bracket was 16" wide, and total cost from a local welder who has built a few brackets was $800. It looked pretty stout.
1968 B20 Moppie - Hull # 201-937
1969 B31 FBC - Hull # 315-881 (sold)
1977 B31 FBC - Hull # BERG1652M77J (sold)
1969 B31 FBC - Hull # 315-881 (sold)
1977 B31 FBC - Hull # BERG1652M77J (sold)
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Corey Mason
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Aug 19th, '14, 07:31
Re: b25 Bracket design
Somebody else just mentioned stainless marine as well. I think they are in Mississippi I believe, which is close enough to drive to save the shipping cost. I guess I was only looking at name brands and getting scared.
$1500-2000 is very reasonable.
I am not sure yet which route I will be going, single or twins. Most likely twins but leaving it open for a single as well. Regardless, the bracket will be a twin engine bracket so if I do go with a single now I can easily repower to twins if I want.
My concerns are that DARN bump out on the b25's. Im not sure how im going to get something to sit flush with it. I can't remember exactly where it sits ( I haven't looked at the boat in a few months). I'm going to double the bracket as a swim platform as well, so it will stretch rather wide. Which means the bracket (or at least the top platform itself) will have to form to the bumpout somehow. That's going to be a B!tch to measure out correctly.
$1500-2000 is very reasonable.
I am not sure yet which route I will be going, single or twins. Most likely twins but leaving it open for a single as well. Regardless, the bracket will be a twin engine bracket so if I do go with a single now I can easily repower to twins if I want.
My concerns are that DARN bump out on the b25's. Im not sure how im going to get something to sit flush with it. I can't remember exactly where it sits ( I haven't looked at the boat in a few months). I'm going to double the bracket as a swim platform as well, so it will stretch rather wide. Which means the bracket (or at least the top platform itself) will have to form to the bumpout somehow. That's going to be a B!tch to measure out correctly.
Re: b25 Bracket design
You don't measure it, you make a template. The bitch is determining the right height for the bracket on the boat.
Stainless Marine is in Florida.
Check out Post #131 in this thread for another option. He built a platform that is separate form the engine bracket. Note that he has a 25" shaft engine, so everything is 5" lower than with a 30".
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... st10137400
Stainless Marine is in Florida.
Check out Post #131 in this thread for another option. He built a platform that is separate form the engine bracket. Note that he has a 25" shaft engine, so everything is 5" lower than with a 30".
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... st10137400
1963 Bertram 25
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
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Corey Mason
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Aug 19th, '14, 07:31
Re: b25 Bracket design
Stainless is in Florida...but they are in the OTHER florida. They are in Miami and I am in Pensacola. pretty much as far apart as you could possible get and still be in the same state. Roughly 700 miles.
I thought about just hiding the bracket with a swim platform as well, but as I imagined it looks terrible (to me anyways). I dont care for that set up at all. The guy in that picture definitely did it right (aesthetically anyways), but I just dont like that set up.
How would one go about making a template and getting a bracket to measure up? I could see how it would be easier with fiberglass (just overbuild the glass and cut it back) but if I were welding metal that would be more difficult.
I thought about just hiding the bracket with a swim platform as well, but as I imagined it looks terrible (to me anyways). I dont care for that set up at all. The guy in that picture definitely did it right (aesthetically anyways), but I just dont like that set up.
How would one go about making a template and getting a bracket to measure up? I could see how it would be easier with fiberglass (just overbuild the glass and cut it back) but if I were welding metal that would be more difficult.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Corey,
It gets more complicated given you want a twin engine bracket. The transom bump out is not wide enough to fit a 26" twin engine spacing. The engine mounting part of the bracket will be wider than the transom bump out. Creating a template straightforward. Determine the mounting height of the bracket on the bump out, snap a line perfectly perpendicular to the vertical center of the transom, temporarily install a straight piece of wood or angle on the transom, use hardboard to "fit" the shape of the hull from end to end of the bracket. If you are going custom, I would make the bracket tank conform to the shape of the transom bump out and extend almost all the way down to keel (leave enough room for a drain plug).
The easiest way to do this is to call Armstrong, as they have the design already done. Write big check and don't look back.
I looked at D&D, Armstrong, Stainless, Hermco, and a few other custom shops. Hermco is fiberglass. You can leave the boat with him and he'll make your bracket. I think you can do this with D&D as well.
Anyway you do this it is going to cost $$$$$. If you want simple, cheap and effective, cut the transom, or get a single engine bracket. That guy in Florida does 50 mph with a single 300...how fast do you want to go? I don't buy into the twin engine "redundancy" argument.
It gets more complicated given you want a twin engine bracket. The transom bump out is not wide enough to fit a 26" twin engine spacing. The engine mounting part of the bracket will be wider than the transom bump out. Creating a template straightforward. Determine the mounting height of the bracket on the bump out, snap a line perfectly perpendicular to the vertical center of the transom, temporarily install a straight piece of wood or angle on the transom, use hardboard to "fit" the shape of the hull from end to end of the bracket. If you are going custom, I would make the bracket tank conform to the shape of the transom bump out and extend almost all the way down to keel (leave enough room for a drain plug).
The easiest way to do this is to call Armstrong, as they have the design already done. Write big check and don't look back.
I looked at D&D, Armstrong, Stainless, Hermco, and a few other custom shops. Hermco is fiberglass. You can leave the boat with him and he'll make your bracket. I think you can do this with D&D as well.
Anyway you do this it is going to cost $$$$$. If you want simple, cheap and effective, cut the transom, or get a single engine bracket. That guy in Florida does 50 mph with a single 300...how fast do you want to go? I don't buy into the twin engine "redundancy" argument.
1963 Bertram 25
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
1973 Boston Whaler 13 - sold!
1998 Scout 172 SF - beach taxi
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Navatech
Re: b25 Bracket design
You may not "buy" the engine redundancy argument but it is a valid argument... Granted, it's a personal thing... Personally, all things being equal I'd always favor the twin 150 HP setup over the single 300 HP setup... In fact, I'd favor the 250 HP plus 50 HP "kicker" (for trawling) setup over the single 300 HP setup...CamB25 wrote:I don't buy into the twin engine "redundancy" argument.
Granted, a dual engine setup on a single tank is less robust in terms of redundancy but considering most users would fill up both tanks at the same fuel dock it's not that big an issue...
Last edited by Navatech on Apr 20th, '17, 12:42, edited 1 time in total.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Some affordable options.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AFFORDABLE-OUTB ... cA&vxp=mtr
You can always buy one and have it reinforced by a local welder as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AFFORDABLE-OUTB ... cA&vxp=mtr
You can always buy one and have it reinforced by a local welder as well.
Re: b25 Bracket design
What Nav says.
I've saved one too many single motor optimists.
I've saved one too many single motor optimists.
1973 B28 FBC/2007 4LHA STP's - "Phantom Duck" - Hull "BER 00794 1172"
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Waytooslow
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Aug 20th, '16, 22:52
Re: b25 Bracket design
Corey, This ebay seller is literally just a few miles west of Pensacola. You may want to contact them and see if you take the boat to them will they match the bracket to the boat. Captbone may have just saved the day! Toddcaptbone wrote:Some affordable options.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AFFORDABLE-OUTB ... cA&vxp=mtr
You can always buy one and have it reinforced by a local welder as well.
1963 B-25 Project (in process)
Atl. GA
Atl. GA
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Corey Mason
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Aug 19th, '14, 07:31
Re: b25 Bracket design
Damn, holy shit captbone! What a find! Yes, it is less than an hours drive, well....maybe an hour drive WITH the boat.
Nav, I don't want to go fast! I want the most time on the water I can afford! So whatever is the most fuel efficient; even if it means I troll from hole to hole I'm good with that. I'm thinking about twin 115's or even twin 150's. If a single 250 or 300 just happened to fall in to my lap, then so be it. But like you said, it holds more personal value over scientific I think. I'd really like something in the twin 130 range, but I think I've only seen Honda's so far in that area. I'm honestly hoping for yamaha's simply because they are much easier to work on than the other brands (since i've been in school anyways).
Nav, I don't want to go fast! I want the most time on the water I can afford! So whatever is the most fuel efficient; even if it means I troll from hole to hole I'm good with that. I'm thinking about twin 115's or even twin 150's. If a single 250 or 300 just happened to fall in to my lap, then so be it. But like you said, it holds more personal value over scientific I think. I'd really like something in the twin 130 range, but I think I've only seen Honda's so far in that area. I'm honestly hoping for yamaha's simply because they are much easier to work on than the other brands (since i've been in school anyways).
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Waytooslow
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Aug 20th, '16, 22:52
Re: b25 Bracket design
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AFFORDABLE-TWIN ... 4affb9d8b6
$1499.00 Let us know how it works out. My son is moving to Pensacola in a month so it would be easy for me to pick one up and save the shipping cost. Todd
$1499.00 Let us know how it works out. My son is moving to Pensacola in a month so it would be easy for me to pick one up and save the shipping cost. Todd
1963 B-25 Project (in process)
Atl. GA
Atl. GA
Re: b25 Bracket design
hey all,
Just listed as a new member. I completed a stem to stern restoration on a b25 this winter and sold her last month. I fabricated my own twin fiberglass bracket to accommodate two Honda 150's and the results were phenomenal. I've installed nearly three dozen aluminum brackets but this was my first fiberglass bracket because I wanted it to be an extension of the hull to make sure that the hydrodynamics of a stepped bracket didn't impede performance and so that I could get enough buoyancy to float twins properly. Every b25 with a bracket I have seen sits low in the water at rest. The spray rail of the hull is always underwater.
Some members on this thread voiced concerns over the transom bump out being too skinny to accommodate twins but that wasn't the case for me. It had just enough room to spread the motors as far apart as possible and also make the boat maneuver on its engines rather than using rudders to steer.
Can someone tell me how to up,lad a pic and I'll show you my design. Tx
Just listed as a new member. I completed a stem to stern restoration on a b25 this winter and sold her last month. I fabricated my own twin fiberglass bracket to accommodate two Honda 150's and the results were phenomenal. I've installed nearly three dozen aluminum brackets but this was my first fiberglass bracket because I wanted it to be an extension of the hull to make sure that the hydrodynamics of a stepped bracket didn't impede performance and so that I could get enough buoyancy to float twins properly. Every b25 with a bracket I have seen sits low in the water at rest. The spray rail of the hull is always underwater.
Some members on this thread voiced concerns over the transom bump out being too skinny to accommodate twins but that wasn't the case for me. It had just enough room to spread the motors as far apart as possible and also make the boat maneuver on its engines rather than using rudders to steer.
Can someone tell me how to up,lad a pic and I'll show you my design. Tx
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Navatech
Re: b25 Bracket design
It works pretty similar to how it works in THT (where I believe you have also posted)... Either way, this thread was created for that purpose...Quinn wrote:Can someone tell me how to up,lad a pic and I'll show you my design. Tx
Re: b25 Bracket design
Try this...
I uploaded some of my restoration to a photobucket
http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/Quinnhp/library/
I uploaded some of my restoration to a photobucket
http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/Quinnhp/library/
Re: b25 Bracket design
Looks like this is covered but I build a bracket for my 28 Bert that is in a thread on the first or second page. The entire build is outlined on the bateau thread which is linked in the subject thread, I think. I extended the stringers through the transom on mine. Did a lot of calculations before I did it to satisfy myself that it would hold 500 hp. So far so good
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Corey Mason
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Aug 19th, '14, 07:31
Re: b25 Bracket design
That boat is beautiful!
I'll have to get your number so I can pick your brain sometime about how you went about making your bracket!
I'll have to get your number so I can pick your brain sometime about how you went about making your bracket!
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Navatech
Re: b25 Bracket design
Question: why didn't you do the bracket as a full extension of the hull?!... I think the added buoyancy would have helped with the stern squatting shown in this picture...captbone wrote:
And just to clarify, I'm not knocking your work!...
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Tony Meola
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7036
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
- Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: b25 Bracket design
Man that is one good looking boat.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Wow that is a beautiful 25! Very nicely done.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Squatting stern?
She is floating right on her lines. Chine just kissing the water at the stern. Looks well balanced to me.
Ian.
She is floating right on her lines. Chine just kissing the water at the stern. Looks well balanced to me.
Ian.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Agreed. Perfect balance. I had to use sandbags to achieve that stance.
Re: b25 Bracket design
Thanks for all the compliments on my work guys.
The bracket wasn't made as full hull width just because of concerns when in a following sea, if I made her too buoyant in the rear she might get off course and pushed around too easy. I have to admit, it was a nail biter because I wasn't sure if there was quite enough buoyancy to pull off the main objective, sitting on her proper waterline.
I don't want to be a thread jumper with my build, we are supposed to be helping Corey out with his new 25 bracket design, so I'd thought I'd show him what worked for me. Btw - there's about four 5-gallon pails in the bracket and the inside is 3/4" divinicell so no wood was used to build it.
The bracket was a three sided mold I built around the stern and glassed it all to the boat, not a separate mold that was brought to the boat. Then for good measure, 8 aluminum plates were through bolted with 1/2" stainless bolts so no one could argue that it was stuck to the boat.
I have a second 25 in my yard for the same restoration if anyone wants to commission a build (this is a full time gig for me now) but the real reason I just signed up here is because last week we bought our first 31 bertram , it arrived from California two days ago and I'm so excited to get going on her. This will also be a boat for sale after restoration and it will have a twin bracket for twin 300's.
If someone wants to get in on a custom build, they can contact me at(250) 588-4111, if we don't find a person to build for, we will move forward and restore it to our liking.
The bracket wasn't made as full hull width just because of concerns when in a following sea, if I made her too buoyant in the rear she might get off course and pushed around too easy. I have to admit, it was a nail biter because I wasn't sure if there was quite enough buoyancy to pull off the main objective, sitting on her proper waterline.
I don't want to be a thread jumper with my build, we are supposed to be helping Corey out with his new 25 bracket design, so I'd thought I'd show him what worked for me. Btw - there's about four 5-gallon pails in the bracket and the inside is 3/4" divinicell so no wood was used to build it.
The bracket was a three sided mold I built around the stern and glassed it all to the boat, not a separate mold that was brought to the boat. Then for good measure, 8 aluminum plates were through bolted with 1/2" stainless bolts so no one could argue that it was stuck to the boat.
I have a second 25 in my yard for the same restoration if anyone wants to commission a build (this is a full time gig for me now) but the real reason I just signed up here is because last week we bought our first 31 bertram , it arrived from California two days ago and I'm so excited to get going on her. This will also be a boat for sale after restoration and it will have a twin bracket for twin 300's.
If someone wants to get in on a custom build, they can contact me at(250) 588-4111, if we don't find a person to build for, we will move forward and restore it to our liking.
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