outboards on a bracket getting swamped

[Knotme]

Interesting thing has happened twice now on whaler 37' with merc. trips. One I was aboard the other thankfully absent. On rough following seas, the absent time, my client got hit from behind whilst smashing through a wave. It forced salt water into his engines, causing all three to die. Leaving him and his pax adrift for hours in bad seas. The second was just this weekend, on a fishing trip I was aboard. The weatherman misjudged the wind speed by Ten plus knots and it got snotty quick. The owner and the boat handled the return to port wishes of all on board and we were making ten kts straight into a wind blasted sea. A few times as we went up and the transom went down a lot of water came over the engines. After that point I noticed the engines were all out of sync and it almost seemed like they wanted to die. They did chug on, but left me with questions. Are we putting too much faith in these motors hanging off the back? Even more so are bracketed motors hung on a boat not designed for the inherently going to have this problrm?Has anybody else seen this? I gathered a few of the guys on the board are very savvy to the trade.

[Knotme]

For the record, the bracket part because I'm thinking of doing that to my 25 Bertram. The whaler does not have the trips on a bracket they are on transom / well.

[Carl]

I think that may just be the nature of the beast...


Not an answer for sure, but as we know seawater does not support combustion nor does it allow combustion, maybe consider an off-road tactic of a snorkel on your intake.

[Howesounder]

I was under the impression that there were a coup,e of ways to mount an outboard. One can go with a taller engine. 30" rather than 25, and use a mount that lifts the engine higher out of the water. I did this with a smaller boat. In my case it was to keep the power tilt and trim "junk" out of the water. The only penalty seems to be very slightly higher centre of gravity and weight. Have I started drinking too early in the day?

Steve

[bob lico]

i design the pipe-work,fiberglass and transition from 28 cigarette race boat to center console .use a sealed 2' extension bracket and 30" lower units on 250hp mercury Veradoes to keep everything out of water but the lower units.boat handles fabulous but owner not happy with performance from 250hp twins so we went with twin 300hp veradoes. this is a stripe bass fishing boat for northern NJ.water never comes into well. the key here is 30" on high bracket.

[Tony Meola]

I have always wondered about that. I can only think of the times that while running in the inlet it got a little squirrelly and we had to out race breakers racing down on us. Bad enough taking one of those over the transom, but if they swamped an outboard and the engines died it would be all over. All the guys running them off shore to the NorthEast Canyons this is the first time I have ever heard of it actually happening.

Maybe the design of the Whaler.

[bob lico]

here is photo with 300hp mercs

[Knotme]

Bob, those 30" on high bracket look good. My 20' dusky with dusky drive always has the engine deep but never a problem. I also never push my luck in anything past 2' seas. I really want my 25' Bertram to be a boat that can take the weather, if it comes up. And between putting all the weight of the engines, bracket etc. so far aft of the cog, and now having to raise them from being swamped. Hmmm. I am concerned for the original design of the boat. It has me rethinking my outboard versus I/O choice. I have officially decided that if the boat is to be trailered, outboards versus inboards is a tough nut to crack.

[Rawleigh]

I knew of an older Scarab Sport 35 with triples on a bracket that was always swamping motors. I have twin 250's on a bracket on an older Scarab Sport 30 but have never had a problem with it, but I mounted them higher. With triples the center one has to be lower and that can cause problems if you don't use extended lowers.

[spencer]

Never had a problem running twin outboards
On the 25 Bertram with a bracket
25 inch shafts / go fishing in some pretty sporty
Seas

[Tony Meola]

Looking at the design of the newer boats, and comparing it to a 25, I think there is less of a chance on a 25 to swamp those engines. Twin outboards probably don't add enough weight to make them sit lower than she does with the IO and full of fuel. Of course, since you have more space that means more fuel so she may squat a little.

You said the second time you were on board heading into a tough sea. The lower profile on the Whaler looks like it would allow more water to come over the bow and run down onto the engines.

I don't see that being a concern on the 25.

I would think you would be ok.

[Howesounder]

One other thing that I think would help would be a hydrofoil on the legs. On my 25 express the speed it took to lift up on a plane was about18 knots. So at low speed, in real snotty conditions, headwinds or following seas, the engine did look a bit low in the water. Even more so when climbing up a steep wave. The foil on the engine changed that, so that even at 9 knots the rear of the boat had lifted, de-submerging (note, new word:) the engine nicely. In my case I mounted the foil above the cav plate, as I had added a 5" extension making it a 30. At higher speeds, (above 20 knots) the foil is above the water, so zero drag.

Steve

[mike ohlstein]

Last week, some guys were doing some spear fishing off of the Moxie Drilling Platform in the Gulf. The five of them let the boat drift while they all went in. Apparently, they were so well organized that they were out there and in the water before anyone noticed that they had forgotten to put the drain plug in. One of them managed to snap a picture of the boat as it passed them on its way down to about 1500 feet.

Talk about swamped........

[MarkD]

Ha! That is a bit more than a flesh wound.

[Navatech]

Last week, some guys were doing some spear fishing off of the Moxie Drilling Platform in the Gulf. The five of them let the boat drift while they all went in. Apparently, they were so well organized that they were out there and in the water before anyone noticed that they had forgotten to put the drain plug in. One of them managed to snap a picture of the boat as it passed them on its way down to about 1500 feet.

Talk about swamped........

Ouch!... Aren't commercially built boats of this type supposed to be "unsinkable"?!...

[Carl]

Ouch!... Aren't commercially built boats of this type supposed to be "unsinkable"?!...

...umm from what I recall I heard, the last unsinkable boat was the Titanic.

[Carl]

Last week, some guys were doing some spear fishing off of the Moxie Drilling Platform in the Gulf. The five of them let the boat drift while they all went in. Apparently, they were so well organized that they were out there and in the water before anyone noticed that they had forgotten to put the drain plug in. One of them managed to snap a picture of the boat as it passed them on its way down to about 1500 feet.

Aside from losing the boat, did they mention how they did spear fishing...



Thinking about it, I guess they didn't really "Lose" the boat either, they know where it is, just kinda tough to get to.

[Navatech]

...umm from what I recall I heard, the last unsinkable boat was the Titanic.

Not really the same thing... Small boats can be made "unsinkable" (read that as they'll be sort of flush with the water surface when swamped) by filling some (mostly unusable) spaces with closed cell foam... In fact, it doesn't take much foam volume to achieve that goal...

Not exactly an exact comparison but reefer containers may float (depending on their contents) for a long time (and sometimes indefinitely) after falling overboard mostly due to the foam insulation used in their construction...

[captbone]

Wow! Good thing they were close the platform. That still has to be a oh Shit moment. Great picture!

[Tony Meola]

Not really the same thing... Small boats can be made "unsinkable" (read that as they'll be sort of flush with the water surface when swamped) by filling some (mostly unusable) spaces with closed cell foam... In fact, it doesn't take much foam volume to achieve that goal...

Not exactly an exact comparison but reefer containers may float (depending on their contents) for a long time (and sometimes indefinitely) after falling overboard mostly due to the foam insulation used in their construction...

Nav

I believe Carl was just kidding or should I say being sarcastic.

[Carl]

Nav

I believe Carl was just kidding or should I say being sarcastic.

Just a little bit...ok, maybe alot.


Yes, familiar with the foam to keep'em floating. I think it was Boston Whaler that came out with an advertisement about their boat being unsinkable even if cut in half. I could be wrong, but think Coast Guard only requires smaller boats of around 20' and under to float for a day or so. Which brought me to my point that some boats that were supposed to float had either insufficient foam or had wrong recipe. Some foam became water logged with regular use, wash downs, other foam may have been too dense barely floating itself.

Whatever the case, I know two things...that boat didn't have enough flotation to stay afloat and anybody that tells me a boat can't sink has me thinking Titanic type arrogance.

[mike ohlstein]

Some foam became water logged with regular use...

Ummmmm, like the B20.

[John F.]

Last week, some guys were doing some spear fishing off of the Moxie Drilling Platform in the Gulf. The five of them let the boat drift while they all went in. Apparently, they were so well organized that they were out there and in the water before anyone noticed that they had forgotten to put the drain plug in. One of them managed to snap a picture of the boat as it passed them on its way down to about 1500 feet.

Talk about swamped........

That sucks, but one of the best pics I've ever seen.

[Yannis]

Looks like they had raised the motors to ...prevent electrolysis !
Great picture indeed.

[ford351c594]

Last week, some guys were doing some spear fishing off of the Moxie Drilling Platform in the Gulf. The five of them let the boat drift while they all went in. Apparently, they were so well organized that they were out there and in the water before anyone noticed that they had forgotten to put the drain plug in. One of them managed to snap a picture of the boat as it passed them on its way down to about 1500 feet.

Talk about swamped........

you know when the motors were turned off, one would think you would go...." hum, why is the bilge pump constantly running?"

and ouch!!! At least they have this picture for insurance.... LOL and not really at the same time?