B20 restore

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 9th, '17, 16:09

I am about to take the plunge and purchase a '68 B20 Moppie and start with a restore. The previous owner pulled out the i/o and re glassed the transom and at one time had a bracket with twin outboards. Now the transom is bare so it's pretty much a blank canvas. As much as I would like to restore it to its original state the most cost effective route would be to reinforce the transom and go with an outboard (I know, I know sac-religious to do that to a classic, but the ease of an outboard and I have no previous experience with i/o's). I looked at some previous posts and seen some great work so I have a lot of ideas. Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!

Mainly looking for any lessons learned from previous restorations, what would you do over if you could do it again, etc.

Thanks again,

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 9th, '17, 16:49

First, welcome to the sandbox... Second, what's the condition of the hull and the cap?!... And what's the condition of the rubrail?!...

As for putting an outboard on it, I'm personally not a fan of gas on boats... And since diesel outboards are almost as rare as hens teeth I wouldn't do it but that's just me... Are you going to keep it as a Moppie or are you going to turn it into a CC or something?!...

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 9th, '17, 17:23

Thanks, happy to be on board!

The hull is in great shape, a few scratches and dings but it's almost 50 yrs old so that is expected. The cap is also in good shape, it looks like some cracking on the gellcoat fwd of the windshield around the hatch, but it seems mostly like sun damage. I will post some pictures when I can. The rub rail ( I guess made of chrome?) also looks good. The biggest unknown is the fuel tank which looks to be fiberglass, so that will be pulled and I will go back with either a plastic or aluminum tank. Had issues with water in the fuel in my previous boat, and don't want to go through that again. The deck was redone and no hatch was made for fuel tank (other than inspection hatch) so I would have to do some cutting to remove which I'm not too exited about.

I also like diesels, my preference would be inboard, but that would be a whole different can of worms to make that work on a 20. I'll stick to diesels if I ever get a 31, but for now I'm thinking about a 200 hp 4 stroke on a bracket (not sure if 150 would be enough power)

I'm keeping it as a Moppie, love the look.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 9th, '17, 19:33

We painted 2 20 sportsmens last year, one had been converted to outboard with bracket
He had owned the boat when it was i/o as well.

This year we removed the bracket and fabricating a splashwell, he says maneuverability especially in reverse is terrible with the Bracket.

With the right style splashwell you will have the benfit of the full transom but have better maneuverability.
Suggest you stick with i/o or consider adding a splashwell

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 9th, '17, 20:52

Roger that, thanks for the input. I'm wondering why there is maneuverability issues with the bracket? Any pictures of the 20 with the splash well, I'm not sure how that would look....... would you mount the motor on a jackplate if you had a splash well? I would be concerned about not being able to tilt the motor all the way, that's why I was thinking about a bracket, but I guess if it's done right that wouldn't be an issue.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 9th, '17, 21:47

Cheramie

Welcome.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. We all help as much as we can.

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 9th, '17, 21:55

Thanks Tony, much appreciated. Any idea on the original size and location of the fuel tank on the b20?

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 10th, '17, 08:59

Cheramie,

Congratulations on the new project! My 25 will have the outboard mounted to a 10" setback Bob's jackplate. I built a "half" splashwell/livewell. The red plugs you can see in this picture are plugging the jackplate mounting holes. I should have no problem lifting/tilting the lower unit out of the water. Still a work in progress.

Good luck!

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 10th, '17, 11:13

Now that is nice, I will definitely look into that! The only concern I would have on the 20 would be being stern heavy, that's why I was thinking a positive floatation bracket to help with balancing out the added weight of an outboard.

Where did you incorporate the livewel?

What kind out outboard are you going with?

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 10th, '17, 11:32

Cheramie wrote:\The only concern I would have on the 20 would be being stern heavy, that's why I was thinking a positive floatation bracket to help with balancing out the added weight of an outboard.

I'm not sure an outboard would be heavier then an I/O drive with its engine...

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 10th, '17, 12:59

Raybo gave you the real world results from a bracket conversion....clearly not recommended.

Cut the transom and hang a G2 200HO on the boat and I'll bet she'll run great. Probably debatable whether you need a splashwell at all, provided your deck height is sufficient to make the boat self bailing. Jackplate is highly optional as well. I made the half splash well as part of this contraption I call the "transom module". Made from Coosa, not heavy.

Do not follow my lead. I've been fooling around with this boat for almost 8 years. Keep it simple!!

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 10th, '17, 19:24

1968 B20 with a 1994 Yamaha 200. I've had her for about 5 years, and have lots of time on her. If you have any questions, let me know.

Now

Before

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 10th, '17, 21:24

Cam,
I like your work. I was thinking how I could incorporate a livewel into the design, so that definitely gives me some ideas. A 200 hp G2 would be pretty sweet, I did come across a 175 etec with low hours for a reasonable price, so I may go that route at first then upgrade to the G2 later on. There is a boat show around here next weekend so I am planning to get some more options and pricing then.

John,
Very nice looking ride. I've been seeing pics of your boat on the net, I've been searching a good bit and your boat is always one of the first one that comes up. Do you have any more pics of the design of the transom so I can get some more ideas? Also, what kind of performance numbers are you getting with the 200?

You guys are awesome, thanks for all the help!

Waytooslow · Post by **Waytooslow** » Mar 11th, '17, 00:40

John, Do you get a better ride with the center console arrangement? I admit that looks a lot better with the splashwell compared to a bracket. Plus 2K cheaper! Todd

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 11th, '17, 08:54

These pics. are all I have at the moment. Some are from my test ride when I bought her. She's still wrapped up for the winter. If you need more pics, I can take them in a month or so when I get her unwrapped and ready. She rides better as a center only because I'm standing about 5' further towards the stern. I ran her as a moppie for 1 or 2 full seasons, and sometimes I'd go stand back where I would be if she had a center console/leaning post. The difference was substantial. The other reason I converted her is that now I can cast forward if I want, and work fish off the bow and down the side to land. With the windshield, I couldn't really do that. I've posted her numbers before, but as I remember, she goes about 40 knts WOT, 30 knts at 4200, and will plane off at about 13 knts which is great when its really rough. If you're ever in the area, I fish her all the time in the summer. You're welcome to come along. I personally wouldn't do a bracket, and would definitely find a B20 with a bracket and get a ride before I went that route. I know that my boat rides great, and is really easy to handle. I don't know how a bracket boat would ride. I also personally don't like the look--especially for a B20. But, to each his own.

Waytooslow · Post by **Waytooslow** » Mar 11th, '17, 13:47

Fold down door is cool. I didn't realize that the bracket affected the reverse before this thread. Got me thinking. Todd

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 11th, '17, 16:06

curious what your splashwell width is, we modeled this one after a couple of other boats but still trying to keep it as small as possible, owner doesnt want to give up his little storage boxes on the transom cap, going to turn them sideways and glass them back in for him.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 11th, '17, 18:22

Raybo

I'll get whatever measurements you'd like. The transom work was done when I got her. She was done on LI by, if I remember right, Gulf fiberglass or something like that on the south shore by superboats

John

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 11th, '17, 20:56

Going witha different look than that but curious width at top and bottom , and your depth. Does the engine not trim all the way without the door down?

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 11th, '17, 21:26

John,
Thanks for the transom pics!

Raybo,
I'm the same way I would like to keep as much of the original transom as possible, and would also like to use the sides for storage. What kind of design were you thinking of?

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 12th, '17, 11:25

The motor trims all the way up with the transom door closed. The depth is about 22" from the door to the inside of the transom, and the transom is about 2" - 2 1/2" thick. The width of the transom door is 22" at the bottom angling out to 27" at the top. The door is about 12" high, and from the deck to the top of the door is 25". The transom cut-out is about 34" at the bottom, angling out to about 42" at the top. The splashwell is angled aft, so the water drains out. The drains in the splashwell are too small. Hope this makes sense. If not, let me know.

John

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 13th, '17, 10:40

Cheramie wrote: I would like to keep as much of the original transom as possible

You might want to close the scuppers. The 20 was more self-sinking than self-bailing. Close the holes, install good pumps (plural intended).

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 13th, '17, 11:47

Cheramie wrote:John,
Thanks for the transom pics!

Raybo,
I'm the same way I would like to keep as much of the original transom as possible, and would also like to use the sides for storage. What kind of design were you thinking of?

A jackplate helps reduce the size of the splashwell without putting the engine 30" off the stern. You can select a fixed setback plate (no up/down jack). Offset the engine up to about 8" aft.

http://www.bobsmachine.com/Fixed-Setbac ... ts_c42.htm

Cheramie · Post by **Cheramie** » Mar 13th, '17, 12:48

I wonder what draft I would get with a notched transom / jackplate set up?

Also, unsure if I would need a 20" or 25" shaft motor?

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 13th, '17, 15:33

The scuppers on my B20 are closed. When I redo her, I'll raise the deck by about 2" and have scuppers. I'd rather have her self-bail than depend on the bilge pump. Either of those is better than the OEM self-sinking design.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 13th, '17, 21:03

Last year We raised the drains up little more than an inch, was able to pitch the deck. Was simplest way to do it as a deck replacement was not part of the project. Boat sits pretty stern heavy so drain is not a problem.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Mar 15th, '17, 15:36

John,
How fast does that go with the 200hp? Seems like a lot of horses.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 16th, '17, 06:54

She runs 40 knts WOT, cruises 30 knts at 4200, and low 20 knts (I forget) at 3200 rpms. The bottom has years of flaking paint, and looks like the surface of the moon, and the flotation foam, plywood deck, and probably the stringers, and maybe the transom, are waterlogged. My plan was/is that, when the Yamaha quits, either redo her myself or take her to someone to have her gutted and rebuilt so she'd be the same, just not waterlogged and rotten. Then hang a 250 on her for those flat calm days.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 16th, '17, 11:25

John F. wrote:OEM self-sinking design.

As Pascoe notes in one of his books, ALL vessels are inherently self sinking!... Given enough time and neglect EVERY vessel will sink!...

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 20th, '17, 11:10

It's simply a matter of whether your boat has a positive or a negative rate of sink........

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 27th, '17, 05:56

When I did the restore of my Bahia Mar (1968). I chose to go with IO power. I had thought about putting in a splashwell, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. Having said that, I do think an outboard would have some advantages.

I put in a new Volvo Penta Duoprop package. 4.3 224 hp, electronic throttle and shift. I finally did get the proper propellers and she will do an honest 50 mph on the GPS.

I can't wait to splash this summer.

Ian.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Mar 27th, '17, 16:42

That's beautiful Ian.......simply beautiful.

Volvo is pulling up to 280hp out of that 4.3L block now.
Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Ice should be out in the next couple of weeks.
On island Easter egg hunt, can't do that every year.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 27th, '17, 17:37

boat is in perfect balance with 5 people aboard .water is breaking midships on inner strakes great steering and maximum fuel economy.

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 27th, '17, 18:30

Thanks John. Might try and get up over Easter. I have a 4 day weekend. Might even bring the Bertram.

Bob - I have been very pleased with the balance and performance. Some thought the 110 US gallon fuel tank would be too much, but I think it is perfect.

Ian.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 27th, '17, 21:58

Ian

Pretty boat. Great shots of her running.

110 gallons will take you a long way in that 20. You probably burn about 5 gallons an hour at 30 MPH. How close am I?

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 28th, '17, 06:58

Closer to 4.5 GPH at about 35 mph.

Have not looked very close since I got the new props at the end of last season.

Ian.

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 28th, '17, 11:30

A few more pictures from that same day.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 28th, '17, 11:49

That boat looks HAPPY! Great shots!

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 28th, '17, 11:53

Almost as happy as the guy driving!

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Mar 28th, '17, 13:06

bob lico wrote:boat is in perfect balance with 5 people aboard .water is breaking midships on inner strakes great steering and maximum fuel economy.

Bob - If you look closely, there are 7 people aboard.

There is a lifejacket between the 2 adults on the engine box seat and another kid sitting on the helm chair behind me.

Ian.

ford351c594 · Post by **ford351c594** » Mar 29th, '17, 20:33

cam have to ask what did you do on the inside of the live well, gelcoat or some other type of lining? When my boat finally gets out of the shop I will be attempting to make one.

edited to remove the quoted picture.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 30th, '17, 08:43

hand applied gel coat...not very smooth, but it's blue. I had huge problems releasing the part from the mold and had to improvise.

That's not right. the mold problems were with the cooler seat liner. The livewell was built up from scraps and I used a foam brush to pain the gel coat. Not a work of art, but functional.

ford351c594 · Post by **ford351c594** » Mar 30th, '17, 10:32

That is awesome. I am, as I have mentioned a mechanical guy, not a fiberglass guy.... so this will be my first attempt at fiberglass work. I may stand clear of gel coat however...seems like a lot of work and easy to mess up........maybe I can find a live well paint. LOL

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Apr 29th, '17, 15:14

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » Apr 29th, '17, 15:22

Raybo -

That is awesome. Would love to see some additional pictures. If not too much to ask the measurements would be great as well.

I can see this working out great!

Any one of the 200 hp outboard would be fantastic.

Ian.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Apr 29th, '17, 21:18

I like it!

John F. · Post by **John F.** » May 1st, '17, 05:20

Perfect. Beautiful work. Please keep the pics coming

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » May 5th, '17, 12:16

ianupton · Post by **ianupton** » May 5th, '17, 12:19

Very nice! Suppers look high. Did you raise the height of the sole?

Will she be truly self bailing?

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » May 5th, '17, 12:23

the boat sits so stern heavy that we raised the scuppers over an inch last year when we painted the boat. We pitched the deck over a span of 2'. Owner said it worked out great and it got the drains up high enough.

if you were doing a new deck you could obviously raise them even more but you still have the hatches draining into the bilge to worry about when it rains