38 Bertram aux fuel tank

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Oct 19th, '16, 10:42

I have a 1984 38 Bertram It has the standard fiberglass tank and a 100 gal aluminum water tank. Would it be possible to convert the water tank to a fuel tank. Has anyone done this and is it an option. The water tank is located in the rear cockpit behind the main fuel tank. Any ideas? Anthony

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 19th, '16, 11:32

Anthony wrote:I have a 1984 38 Bertram It has the standard fiberglass tank and a 100 gal aluminum water tank. Would it be possible to convert the water tank to a fuel tank. Has anyone done this and is it an option. The water tank is located in the rear cockpit behind the main fuel tank. Any ideas? Anthony

Everything is possible... The thing is that at this age your water tank might be suspect... If you leak water it's not a big deal... If you leak fuel that's another matter altogether... ESPECIALLY if your fuel is gasoline!...

What is that you're trying to achieve?!... Personally I like the idea of fresh water on board... Even if it's not used for drinking... Doing dishes and the option of a shower after a dive is worth the extra hustle to me...

If what you want is the occasional extra few hours out on the water maybe a bladder tank will do?!... Do you have another spot where you could position an additional fuel tank?!...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 19th, '16, 22:21

Not sure if you would need baffles for 100 gallons. The water tank probably would not have baffles.

You would also need to make sure that it is vented properly and since you probably have diesels would need to add a return line as well as change the plumbing for the fuel pick up. Also is the aluminum thick enough for fuel use.

It would probably not be certified by the coast guard for fuel use so you could have an insurance problem.

As I think about it, you would probably be better off pulling it and having one made.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 20th, '16, 09:28

i just learn something here! i work on a 38" Bertram every two or three weeks in Alantic Highlands marina NJ. this is a 1979 model ,so i found it odd Bertram would change there design like that? the main tank 395 gallons is mid ship conforming to the contour of the hull dead center like 31 the 100 gallon water tank is also mid ship on center directly below salon hatch. the 38' pops on plane with no effort. power is 435 hp cats 3208.this is a parnership and boat will never be sold because capt. patrick spent days and nights building a outstanding.perfect electronic layout,with a semi-circle surrond bridge and walk thru on starboard side.he also build a perfect sink,fishing tackle,freezer center in cockpit with custom live bait well in transom.his work is beyond perfection and the best i have ever seen!!!!!!!!! any ways a little off subject but as usual i don`t give a f-ck .i through all 38" Bertrams had the gen. under the cockpit and water tank forward. the capt build a w/p compartment for fisher/pander gen which is also cover with f/g enclosure. nice setup and two extra fuel tanks can be place under cockpit on port and starboard side of at least 150 gallon each. to maintain balance. they would start directly in back off main bulkhead and hull side and back 4' or so to try maintain balance. with 700 gallons you could go anywhere you want.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 20th, '16, 09:40

bob lico wrote:perfect electronic layout,with a semi-circle surrond bridge and walk thru on starboard side.he also build a perfect sink,fishing tackle,freezer center in cockpit with custom live bait well in transom.his work is beyond perfection and the best i have ever seen!!!!!!!!!

Pictures please!... I think I'm speaking for everybody when I say that we'd like to actually see these great things...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 20th, '16, 14:37

Funny story i went to look at this boat the first day it went up for sale. " 38 Bertram for sale 29,000" so i went over the boat and took it for a trial run actually i figure after i purchase i would run her at WOT. till the 3208 /435hp cats self destruct because i have Cummins QSC 500 hp lined up to repower. well to my surprise the cats push her along the delaware river at 26 knots,then i went in the hole and found low hours on hour meters. paper work from some marina in fl. called huchchison marine whom did the repower with ZF gears,shafts,struts,props. custom 8" stainless exhaust from turbo`s to mufflers. nice installation on alluminum beds. i mention fishing to the guy and he said "no we use it as a gambling boat tie to dock for ten years" ----------WTF.!!!!!!!!! teaser reels on bridge,gin pole,triple tournament rupp riggers,center rigger,bait station,# 80 chair, large live well, etc. no haggling i will take it! then Capt patrick calls and tell me he did all the work in 1995. the teak cockpit floor need replacing but hull and topside are in great condition ,bottom is perfect. no tackle just liquor bottles and entertaiment stuff in every cabinet boat was apparently also used as brothel! i will take pictures in three weeks.

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Oct 20th, '16, 15:01

Bob:

You may sell it to one of the faithful! ;)

David

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 20th, '16, 15:05

to you yes but need a week on it tie to snake island with family

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Oct 20th, '16, 15:31

Bob:

After you sell it to me, you can take the boat with your family to Culebra Island anytime you are down here! LOL

David

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 20th, '16, 15:59

honestly my daugther has been to every country in the world and 70% of islands even the islands off of the land down under as a special flight att. in her college years.Culebra is her favorite island, she had the whole place to her family -----------one word gorgeous!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 20th, '16, 20:44

Bob

What can I say, good purchase for you. Where in NJ is the boat and why not up on LI closer to you?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 21st, '16, 08:09

tony the boat is on the hard with electric and water connected at Alantic Highland marina NJ. a full facility marina with toilets,showers,and close to a nice town with great restaurants . five minutes from my partners boat for the best stripe bass fishing in northeast.i will do mechanical/electrical renovation and then donate to "save the great south bay" society with docking at oakdale yacth club. ( a little IRS clause for donation with full use of boat).----------Bob

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 21st, '16, 22:44

bob lico wrote:tony the boat is on the hard with electric and water connected at Alantic Highland marina NJ. a full facility marina with toilets,showers,and close to a nice town with great restaurants . five minutes from my partners boat for the best stripe bass fishing in northeast.i will do mechanical/electrical renovation and then donate to "save the great south bay" society with docking at oakdale yacth club. ( a little IRS clause for donation with full use of boat).----------Bob

Good for you.

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Oct 27th, '16, 08:41

Thank you for the reply My generator is located forward of the engines and the water tank is original Bertram My thought was to add a new poly fresh water tank somewhere and to use the alum water tank for fuel if it test good if not try to add 75-100 gals of fuel somewhere else under the deck
Anthony

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Nov 26th, '16, 12:26

Anthony here is a picture of my 38s set up. Where your generator is I have two 8Ds, which I believe was the original placement, and to port is a water tank that was added. As for the having the tank offset to port I haven't noticed any obvious list, IDEALLY my holding tank is never full but the holding tank is located directly on the opposing side and the tank is the same size. As for an idea of weighting outboard of the engines to port I only have the large fire bottle and to stbd i have 8D inverter batteries. Another idea is maybe putting two smaller tanks forward below the steps going to the staterooms just a thought? I hope that helps!
-Brian

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 26th, '16, 12:51

Good lord, is that an engine room ?

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Nov 26th, '16, 13:53

Yamas Yannis! The engine room detailing is slowly progressing.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 28th, '16, 13:26

Yasou Brian,

What concerns me at this point is that the rope handle of one of your batteries is, unfortunately, not completely horizontal...

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Nov 28th, '16, 15:52

Yannis wrote:What concerns me at this point is that the rope handle of one of your batteries is, unfortunately, not completely horizontal...

Yannis, I officially nominate you as a new member for the Mean Team!...

ROTFLMAO!!!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 28th, '16, 17:04

what power do you have it looks like 6Bta 370 hp cummins with relocated primary gas filter.

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Nov 29th, '16, 05:29

Yannis,
I will straighten the handle just for you, I should probably also get covers on those terminals now that you brought my attention to it! Haha

Bob,
You are correct 6BTAs 370Hp with Twin Disc MG 5055A trasnnies. Very happy with them so far, wide open (3100) she will do 28 knots.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 29th, '16, 06:36

Thanx Brian!

Nav,

I've been reading that Mike is the mean team's Captain, however, I'm not at all sure that I know the scope and goals of this team.
Let alone the fact that the necessary qualifications to be a member of the team also escape my radar.

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Mar 9th, '17, 23:13

Bob,
Any pictures available of some of the modification Capt. Pat did on your 38? Would love to see some of his artwork for ideas.
Thanks,
Brian

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 10th, '17, 00:32

Catalina31 wrote:Bob,
Any pictures available of some of the modification Capt. Pat did on your 38? Would love to see some of his artwork for ideas.
Thanks,
Brian

I second that request!... I'm especially interested in the electronics layout...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '17, 10:22

national security has taken it`s toll on available time for the owner to spent directing money ,time to restoring boat. i have not been there all winter myself.

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Mar 10th, '17, 11:06

No worries Bob. Hopefully you can get the decks bloody this summer.

Anthony,
Did you ever add fuel capacity?

-Brian

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '17, 11:26

crazy as it must sound but money is no object in this boat.he spend 10 grand on new batteries,(5 AGM odassay batteries) solid state charging system,battery switching,4/0 cabling for entire battery starting ,grounding ,bonding.remove all wiring in engine compartment down to engine harness only.installed state of art charger next to main electrical panel.batteries are dead center of engines along keel line.he wants to be there for every step of installation.

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Mar 10th, '17, 12:15

WOW that sounds pretty impressive and a huge undertaking. To put all the batteries dead center did you move the floor upright supports outboard, or did they fit inside that and act like a step as you go into the engine room?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '17, 13:44

i did all the work and planned everything first. needless to say the battery terminations took a day with 4/0 cable and 8 ton hydraulic crimper .i left 1 foot from rear bulkhead to battery box (a perfect fit with two odassay 2750 1100 cca AGM side by side) one dedicated port,one dedicated starboard,two house,one for gen,and electronics all isolated. the one foot space has that pocket in keel for center bilge pump.remove all wiring from bulkhead and laminated AZAK brand pvc board so i have white clean bulkhead to mount port,starboard,house,gen battery switch each has 4/0 cable output to distribution block now it becomes easy for take offs for four bilge pumps off four seperate battery banks. i also have a parallel switch for port and starboard engine 2200 cca is enough to start a locomotive in cold weather!!the 38' Bertram has a cabinet next to electrical panel i installed the digital battery charger there so you can moniter batteries without crawing behind port engine (stupid design) one more time ;never put battery charger in engine compartment.i ask the yardman to drop the rudders so i can sent to a welding shop up the road to add 2/12" deeper and 2" wider and thats how i left the boat.he hire people to stip the entire inside of boat to have custom wall treatment put on. next year will have photo boat run along side and photo boat at cruise speed in two foot on up to 6 foot wave to check planning angle in all sorts of conditions before designing props. there will not be a a/c in Vberth!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '17, 14:36

actually placed floor uprights over stringer and then cantilever ,i am not sure what the finish floor will be.i would prefer teak /Holly over Coosa . when you look at the later day Bertrams in the forty foot range before they sold out they had a cockpit arrangement of a deep freezer over tackle cabinet side by side with unique sink with salt/fresh water spigot and and refrigerator below. Captain Patrick layed up this beautiful fiberglass enclosure with rounded corners on front edges.he also made a custom live bait tank in transom. teak cockpit is in bad condition due to neglect and not sure what he wants to do.

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Mar 10th, '17, 15:32

Brian I did not do anything with fuel yet still kicking around different ideas. The boat is still new to me and I'm not really sure of its rage.
Anthony

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Mar 12th, '17, 00:37

Bob,
Thank you for the details of the project, sounds like she is going to be quite the machine when finished. I look forward to following as it comes together. As far as interior are you talking about re doing the "wallpaper" or the Formica both are projects I need to do at some point down the road which is why I ask. I couldn't agree more with you on your flooring choice, I would have loved to do that but with dogs I didn't want to be refinishing the floors every year so I went with teak and holy Lonseal which has been holding up nicely. All these projects take are time and money! Thanks again Bob for the details and we look forward to pictures.

My project is slowly coming but definitely on no budget scale like yours but slowly making progress when time and money permit.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '17, 07:54

the owner has a long time friend steve whom is a upholstery expert he will apply a marine fabric to walls along with book match teak below window height. new countertops will be Corian.basicly the interior will be like 2005 and up cabo,haterass,buddy davis. my interior floors are teak and holley over 3/4 " Coosa board.the lines in of the holley were line up on there respective floor boards and laminated on the coosa board with a thick layer of epoxy .i rolled it out with rolling pin after drying i cleaned excess and made a trim of E-pay cut 5/16" wide and mitered . used matte finish 2 coats of varnish .still perfect after 8 years of very heavy traffic.very satisfied!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 12th, '17, 15:39

bob lico wrote:the owner has a long time friend steve whom is a upholstery expert he will apply a marine fabric to walls along with book match teak below window height. new countertops will be Corian.basicly the interior will be like 2005 and up cabo,haterass,buddy davis. my interior floors are teak and holley over 3/4 " Coosa board.the lines in of the holley were line up on there respective floor boards and laminated on the coosa board with a thick layer of epoxy .i rolled it out with rolling pin after drying i cleaned excess and made a trim of E-pay cut 5/16" wide and mitered . used matte finish 2 coats of varnish .still perfect after 8 years of very heavy traffic.very satisfied!

Did you use solid teak & holly or did you use a laminate?!... I want to use the (marine) plywood with a top laminate layer of teak & holly but I'm worried about longevity...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '17, 16:52

i used 1/4" plywood laminate.will last 100 years if you apply new coat of varnish when top coat wears thru. mine is still perfect will a constant barrage of beach sand,children play toys,fishing buddies dropping beer. what not to love!!!!!!!!!!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 13th, '17, 01:45

bob lico wrote:i used 1/4" plywood laminate.will last 100 years if you apply new coat of varnish when top coat wears thru. mine is still perfect will a constant barrage of beach sand,children play toys,fishing buddies dropping beer. what not to love!!!!!!!!!!

<thumbsup emoji> That's what I was hoping for... And that's the sort of real life experience which makes this forum an invaluable resource...

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Mar 13th, '17, 07:54

Bob, Nav,

Youre talking, most probably, about boats like yours, where the existing salon floor is either wood or plywood or similar, under the old carpet.
In our smaller boats, where there is a molded glass floor that flexes and bounces up and down in waves as well as when walking, it should be much harder to glue a 6 mm laminate and guarantee it for ...10 years.
I remember having discussed the issue with my good carpenter, and even showed him a sample of what youre referring to, and he said nyet. (before I completely removed the dinette and the drawers underneath it, the elevated dinette floor was covered in this teak and holly laminate, but under it - and over the drawers - there was a thick ply, not glass).
Also, in such a confined space with 3 floor hatches, an entrance step and many contoured corners...ha, youre in for serious carpentry.
After we dropped this alternative with the teak and holly laminate, he started talking about real teak.
I tapped him amically on the shoulder...

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 13th, '17, 08:30

Yannis wrote:Bob, Nav,

Youre talking, most probably, about boats like yours, where the existing salon floor is either wood or plywood or similar, under the old carpet.
In our smaller boats, where there is a molded glass floor that flexes and bounces up and down in waves as well as when walking, it should be much harder to glue a 6 mm laminate and guarantee it for ...10 years.
I remember having discussed the issue with my good carpenter, and even showed him a sample of what youre referring to, and he said nyet. (before I completely removed the dinette and the drawers underneath it, the elevated dinette floor was covered in this teak and holly laminate, but under it - and over the drawers - there was a thick ply, not glass).
Also, in such a confined space with 3 floor hatches, an entrance step and many contoured corners...ha, youre in for serious carpentry.
After we dropped this alternative with the teak and holly laminate, he started talking about real teak.
I tapped him amically on the shoulder...

Personally I abhor carpeting anywhere!... Plus, I really like the look of teak and holly... So, for me, there are really only the following options:

1) Solid teak and holly... Not likely due to cost... Can't beat the look and longevity though...
2) Marine plywood with a top laminate of teak and holly... Reasonably priced but unwieldy due to size... Looks good but I was worried about the longevity...
3) Engineered wood flooring with top laminate of teak and holly... Reasonably priced and very easy to lay... Looks good but I'm worried about the longevity...
4) Faux teak and holly PVC type of material... Reasonably priced and easy to lay (it comes in long strips)... Doesn't look as good as "real" wood but no problems with longevity...

Anyway, this part of the project is still a long way off in the future...

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Mar 13th, '17, 10:48

Nav,

You're right...deep into the future !

A friend just called and we spent one hour on the phone about how to do his new bathroom...in the end, I reminded him that 10 years from now - if we're lucky - any bathroom is still gonna be here, but we will be like rotten dirty socks laying on a floor.
Enjoy today while you still can.

PS: the faux teak is nice, especially if you choose a nice coloration, however a sailor friend who covered his deck with it saw a significant rise in the cabin temperature. He told me something like 3-4 degrees C !

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 13th, '17, 17:05

no the floor is not wood or plywood it is Coosa 26 with real teak and holley laminated with the use of epoxy. the e-pay border takes the place of alluminum crap and will never wear . faux teak is like man made boobs----------------------not!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 13th, '17, 17:43

Bob, now you've got me confused... Upthread I asked if you used solid teak and holly... In your 1st reply you stated:

i used 1/4" plywood laminate

And now you're saying the opposite:

no the floor is not wood or plywood it is Coosa 26 with real teak and holley laminated with the use of epoxy

So, which is it?!... Or, are we talking about 2 different boats?!...

And yes, faux teak IS like bolt on boobs... If done well they look good... Even though they don't feel that nice when you play with them... Which is after all their purpose... Having said that, it serves a function... For example in the head I'd rather have the faux even if the rest is solid...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 13th, '17, 17:50

no confusion they make a real wood teak & holley 1/4" thick and it is teak thru & thru and holley is also solid thru and thru .they glue the two together then saw cut also comes 1/2" and 3/4". the holley show ocasional knots in thicker stock.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Mar 14th, '17, 04:57

bob lico wrote:no confusion they make a real wood teak & holley 1/4" thick and it is teak thru & thru and holley is also solid thru and thru .they glue the two together then saw cut also comes 1/2" and 3/4". the holley show ocasional knots in thicker stock.

OK... NOW (finally) I get it... When I get to that stage I'll ask you where to source it...

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Mar 14th, '17, 07:24

Brian What kind of speed do you get with the Cummins? Did you glue the teak and holly over the old plywood?
Anthony

Catalina31 · Post by **Catalina31** » Mar 15th, '17, 07:29

Anthony,
At 3000 RPM on purchase sea trials with a very light boat we did 29 knots. With the boat loaded down and tanks full its more in the ballpark of 27 knots.

As far as my flooring its Lonseal, we ripped out the white carpet that was inside including the head (why would someone ever put carpet in the head). Then removed the sound mat that was below that. Pulled all of the staples and fared the floor smooth then used Lonseal Epoxy Adhesive 650 and laid the template that was already cut and pit down and trimmed it out. Very easy project. The floor has to be completely smooth that is critical because if anything is raised it is amplified and obvious when the Lonseal is laid down. I am very happy with the results and the durability. It is sold in 1 foot by 6 foot wide sections.
-Brian
http://www.lonsealspecialty.com/show_pr ... %20-%20IMO