Rudders

[Bertramp]

Hi Guys ....
Well, after all that I have heard about the benefits of .....and after losing an engine and having to be towed, because I couldn't run straight, I have decided to look into "over-sized rudders".
Sadly, Patrick is not here to get them for me.
Do we still have the contact with the manufacturer ? .... I don't think that Patrick made these (maybe 'm wrong).
I would prefer to go through the site, as I assume that there was a partial fee that benefited the site.
If anyone has the info, please let me know.
Thanks guys

[mike ohlstein]

Steve,

Message Bruce about them.

[Bertramp]

Bruce .... PM sent.
thanks

[Tooeez]

Bigger rudders have to be better, but after years of going in circles every time an engine goes down I came up with a way to get home in a straight, albeit slow, line. Tie a bucket off the midship spring cleat on the side with the running engine. Let it come aft until it is about three feet forward of the transom. Tie a tag line from the bucket to the stern cleat to hold the bucket at water level. (Also keeps the bucket out of your prop) Now when you go ahead the drag of the bucket offsets the off-center prop thrust, and the boat goes straight. If you want to turn towards the running engine just turn the wheel, and the boat pivots on the spring cleat. If you want to turn the other way just lift the bucket out of the water with the tag line. It's only good in calm water and at sailboat speeds, but it beats waiting for a tow . . . .

[Pete Fallon]

Steve,
Call me at 561-310-7179 any time after 3:00 pm tomorrow. I have the contact info on the oversized stainless steel rudders.
Pete Fallon

[ranjr13]

Steve - I'm sure you're all set with contacts, and certainly would like to go through this site if any benefit to the site - but if you need another option, a yard in Newburyport, MA did them for Otter (pic pages here on site) and our boat. If you need contact, pm.

I am a huge believer, use them regularly as at an idle we're moving a bit more than 6kts, going with the current sometimes pushes us 8 or 9kts so frequently use one engine in harbor rather than constantly going in and out of gear. Boat easily steers in both directions with oversized rudders. With practice, could get into slip on a single engine - use like when operating a single screw boat.

Bob

[Dug]

Bruce,

Your PM info does not come up when I click on your pic. Odd. Be that as it may, I am also interested in new rudders.

Dug

[Bruce]

Guys,
For now if anyone is interested in rudders you can deal direct. I called them and reported Pats passing and they said no problem. Pat made very little off the price and for now I asked to keep the same price to him to retail.

The place that makes them is Bobby Sole propellor in mangonia park, fl. 1.800.432.2940

You will need to know how the rudder shaft dimensions as there were variable size combinations. Check Pats page on his rudders.

[Dug]

Bruce, gotcha, and thank you.

If I decide to move forward on this during this winter (as I have an as yet source undetermined fuel leak that I fear may be the tank...which will cost some $$$ to address) I will be sure to provide a commission to the site for sourcing.

Many thanks my friend.

Dug

[TailhookTom]

Bruce, gotcha, and thank you.

If I decide to move forward on this during this winter (as I have an as yet source undetermined fuel leak that I fear may be the tank...which will cost some $$$ to address) I will be sure to provide a commission to the site for sourcing.

Many thanks my friend.

Dug

Dug: I know where there is a perfect 220 gallon fiberglass tank for a B31 and it is easily accessed since there isn't a deck over it. My old tank never had ethanol fuel in it as it was an early diesel conversion. Maybe you can get a good deal from Tiger?

Tom

[Bertramp]

Funny (or not) that you mention your tank.
I have gassers and an aluminum tank...and Im getting the white dust in my carburetor fuel filter.
HighTide is no longer making glass tanks.

[bertram 20]

Steve - I'm sure you're all set with contacts, and certainly would like to go through this site if any benefit to the site - but if you need another option, a yard in Newburyport, MA did them for Otter (pic pages here on site) and our boat. If you need contact, pm.

I am a huge believer, use them regularly as at an idle we're moving a bit more than 6kts, going with the current sometimes pushes us 8 or 9kts so frequently use one engine in harbor rather than constantly going in and out of gear. Boat easily steers in both directions with oversized rudders. With practice, could get into slip on a single engine - use like when operating a single screw boat.

Bob

hey what is the name of the place in mass that made rudders I may be interested in doing something with mine over the winter for my B28 thanks mike

[ranjr13]

Mike - PM'd you with info.

[Marlin]

When I repowered to Cummings 330 QSB,s , I installed 1 3/4 aqua met shafts ,obviously new struts and Bobby soles rudders based on Capt Pats recommendations, Soles had just changed ownership, rudders didn't perform well, bought anther set from Stuart Prpoellor, big difference, they do a considerable business with the larger cold molded boat builders down in south east Florida , I latter had my rybovich up in that area for some service, the owner of Stuart prop shop was walking thru the yard and looked at my boat and commented on the poor design of the rudders, ask me if I was happy with the steerage, hell no, she wandered at low to mid speeds,got his new design , great product, twice he solved my problems

[Bruce]

Marlin,
Your the first one I ever heard that had an issue with the rudders. Bobby soles has been sold for years and the original guy who welded up Pats design has been gone for awhile. Pat never mentioned any issues with the rudders including a design change as he would have ripped them a new one. Doesn't mean they on their own didn't do it. But again Pat would have let me know so I would go pay them a visit.
Every set I ever used on a 31 performed well, same with Pat. They could never be accused of being jewelry quality finish, which was a complaint time to time, but they worked.

I can't ask Pat, but did you ever mention to him the issue?

You are all free to go where you want to get stuff.

[Bertramp]

OK ... so the new "over-sized" rudders are in hand.
How big of a deal/job is it for the install ? .....a couple of hours and not a couple of days, true ?
Marina is doing it, not me.
thanks

[Carl]

OK ... so the new "over-sized" rudders are in hand.
How big of a deal/job is it for the install ? .....a couple of hours and not a couple of days, true ?
Marina is doing it, not me.
thanks

Changing rudders shouldn't take be more then an hour or so...including a coffee break, trip to bathroom and couple calls with a text or two.


Unless of course bearing is corroded onto shaft, set screw on collar strips, tiller bolt frozen, they don't clean crud off rudder shaft causing it to jam on way out.
In that case it takes a little while longer.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

You left out rebuild rudder shelf.

Steve here is a hint, if the bearing is frozen to the rudder, a sawall cuts the removal time to about 30 nimutes. Cut the rudder shaft let it drop, remove everything else easy peasy. You don't need to old rudders anyway.

Ask me how I know.

[Bertramp]

Carl

You left out rebuild rudder shelf.

Steve here is a hint, if the bearing is frozen to the rudder, a sawall cuts the removal time to about 30 nimutes. Cut the rudder shaft let it drop, remove everything else easy peasy. You don't need to old rudders anyway.

Ask me how I know.

rudder shelf should be OK and same for bearing.
I would never cut rudder shaft unless my only choice. Someone somewhere would love those rudders......just not me.

[Tony Meola]

rudder shelf should be OK and same for bearing.
I would never cut rudder shaft unless my only choice. Someone somewhere would love those rudders......just not me.

Steve

If the yard told you here is your choice at $125 an hour, we spend 8 hours trying to pound it out or 30 minutes with a sawzall, you would pick the sawzall even if you had to buy them one.

Tony

[Bertramp]

Tony ....
My principles have no price ..... well, kinda sorta ;-)

[Carl]

Steve
If the yard told you here is your choice at $125 an hour, we spend 8 hours trying to pound it out or 30 minutes with a sawzall, you would pick the sawzall even if you had to buy them one.

Tony

30 minutes with a sawzall? What the hell? Put in a fresh blade and shouldn't take more then 5-10 minutes to cut shaft. Provided you don't try at it at full speed burning up the blade.

I didn't forget about the shelf Tony, I just said provided the bearing isn't corroded in place. Yes, those bearings are a royal pain...maybe that's one reason I just have a bronze bearing plate.

Another option is to grind the bearing off the shaft...Kinda tight and makes a mess...but saves the rudders and the banging. I'm not a fan of banging boat parts...get it thru bearing and top of rudder shaft is all mushroomed and buggered...then what bang it thru rudder port too??

[Yannis]

No, Carl, let the rudder fall and pull the rest up and out.

[Tony Meola]

No, Carl, let the rudder fall and pull the rest up and out.

Yannis

That involves cutting the rudder. You heard Steve, he has deep pockets money is no object. LOL.

Carl

I said 30 minutes because that is what they will charge you for no matter what. Probably actually charge you for an hour. It is like having a mechanic work on your car. They always charge an hour because that is what the book says it should take. Doesn't matter even if it took 10 minutes.

[Bertramp]

All kidding aside, I would love to save the old, but want the install at a good price. If the old get trashed in process, so be it.

[Carl]

Carl

I said 30 minutes because that is what they will charge you for no matter what. Probably actually charge you for an hour. It is like having a mechanic work on your car. They always charge an hour because that is what the book says it should take. Doesn't matter even if it took 10 minutes.

Mmm your right. I just do all the straight forward grunt work myself. So I was figuring how long it actually takes me. Also when I need help I have a couple great marine mechanics that work me through problems and charge me what I charge them for short favors. So he's not looking to procrastinate, it's in and out no dragging on a job.

Really, provided bearing is not an issue, its a very quick job.

[Tony Meola]

Steve

Remember, it has a scrap value. Unfortunately not much right now, but still something.

[Carl]

Steve

Remember, it has a scrap value. Unfortunately not much right now, but still something.

Might have enough value to pay for the gas to get to and from the scrap yard.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

What is bronze bringing right now? It used to be over a dollar around. When I repowered, I had about 400 in scrap between wire, rudders etc.

[Carl]

Bronze is about 1.20/lb in scrap. Brass 1/lb , copper 1.70, insulated copper wire.45/lb, SS.5/ Lb

A few year ago prices where much higher. Scrap used to be a nice diner out, now it's a bite at Applebees

[Tony Meola]

For a buck twenty a pound Steve could get his a dozen roses. I am fortunate enough that I am close enough to a scrap yard that it only costs me a buck in gas.