Starter spining backwards or....

[Carl]

440 gas, all was good then starter stopped doing its thing.

I was going to install old spare...but as a real pain to change and in no rush, not in water yet, I decided to have both rebuilt. Rebuilder said they were both same rotation from cuts on trailing edge of bendix gear.

I installed what I thought was original (it had threads on gear end of mount). Hit the start button and starter spun, but clicked/ racheted away, not the dying battery clicking noise, more like when turning bendix gear by hand in direction opposite of having it come out. Motor didn't turn over. Usually I have found the gear can get jammed and won't budge when installing so I did the normal give starter a few wraps to hub....No dice.
I then pulled out, gear seemed fine, installed again...same rachety sound.


Pulled starter and installed the spare...starter engaged, motor spun, I went home.

My thought, maybe something got swapped and my spare was opposite rotation...but a quick battery jump today, it looks like it is spinning in correct direction. So what was the clicking ratchety sound when starter was called upon? Gear caught out...but twice? Or is it spinning in wrong direction or....

[Navatech]

Starters require a massive amount of current... Your thin wired starter switch would burn up if all that current passed through it... So what your starter switch does is that it closes a circuit that powers a solenoid (basically an electrically operated switch)... This so called "Bendix solenoid" which is that circular hump sitting on top of your starter does two things... It flings the starter's pinion gear so that it meshes with the gear teeth on the flywheel and, when it reaches the end of it's movement, it closes yet another circuit which supplies the starter motor with electrical power...

My guess is that there's something wrong with the "Bendix solenoid"... Another possibility is that the pinion gear was installed backwards (some are directional and therefore won't mesh properly with the flywheel)... A picture would help with the latter... Either way, take the starter back to the rebuild place...

[Carl]

Thanks, starter is going back...

I wanted to educate myself a little before hearing what they say the problem is.



No solenoid mounted to side of this starter, hot wire comes direct from starter solenoid.
I cannot see anyway gear went in backwards on this starter either as it has a covering over back end of gear.
Assuming spring cover or something.

[Bob Patton]

It seems to me that there should be more shaft showing between the teeth and the casting. If there is no Bendix solenoid then there are threads inside the teeth that centrifugal force throws out towards the fly wheel. There should be a retracted state that makes the teeth have clearance from the flywheel when not actuated. I don't see that clearance. the teeth should be more retracted into the body of the starter.

[Navatech]

No solenoid mounted to side of this starter, hot wire comes direct from starter solenoid.
I cannot see anyway gear went in backwards on this starter either as it has a covering over back end of gear.
Assuming spring cover or something.

Some starters have a pinion gear that retracts when the starter isn't being used... The main reason being that if it were constantly engaged the starter would be still engaged when the engine is already running... They're simply not built for that...

Other starters have a fixed pinion gear which is always engaged... These starters have some sort of arrangement that allows the pinion gear to turn the engine for starting but once the engine is running they pinion gear is basically free wheeling (i.e. though the pinion gear is turning the starter's electrical motor is stationary)... Think something along the lines of a ratchet... Possibly located under that shiny metal "skirt" between the pinion gear and the main part of the starter...

Obviously you might have the latter type... The single hot wire going to this starter from the solenoid should be pretty substantial (4, 2 or even 1 gauge cable wouldn't surprise me)... The (relatively) flimsy wire coming from your starting switch connects to your starting solenoid... Once it powers the solenoid the solenoid closes the starting circuit... This would be a substantial cable going from your main switch to the solenoid and then another one going from the solenoid to the starter...

The clicking ratchety noise you hear might indicate that the starter rebuilder got the starter's direction wrong... IOW, what you're hearing is the free wheeling arrangement...

Viewing the starter as shown in the picture your starter should spin the OPPOSITE way of the engine rotation... The arrow shown on the starter suggests this starter spins clockwise (as viewed in this picture)... Figure out the rotation of this engine... Look at the bell housing... There might be a marking there... Another place for a possible marking would be on the flywheel or on the front end... If this engine runs in the same direction (clockwise) as the starter then that's your problem...

[Carl]

It seems to me that there should be more shaft showing between the teeth and the casting. If there is no Bendix solenoid then there are threads inside the teeth that centrifugal force throws out towards the fly wheel. There should be a retracted state that makes the teeth have clearance from the flywheel when not actuated. I don't see that clearance. the teeth should be more retracted into the body of the starter.

I think your right...does not seem to be enough travel of gear to engage, disengage.

[Bruce]

There is a rotational issue with bendix's. Maybe wrong one installed if starter is spinning correct direction.

[Navatech]

Carl, what I would do is take the rebuild starter back to the rebuilder and let him figure it out... I'd also bring him the old spare starter... Just so that he has a working example...

[Carl]

Thanks for the starter education.

I was planning to bring back to rebuilder but thought best to get some more info to help determine if they feed me a line of BS, give a straight forward we goofed answer...or something in between. The starter alternator service is not overly important to me...its the other services they offer I could really use, but if its BS I keep looking. Supposedly they are good, they work on many of the commercial outfits around here.

[Carl]

Carl, what I would do is take the rebuild starter back to the rebuilder and let him figure it out... I'd also bring him the old spare starter... Just so that he has a working example...

I brought starter back last night after work, they will look at today.

The Old Spare, was brought initially, they said it worked, but could use bushings and...so I had them rebuild. Which is good as when the original didn't work, I installed that one...should be good for years to come.

If it where a matter or just removing two bolts and pulling out, I'd have pulled the working unit to show them...but starter has to be snuck in around the side then maneuvered into place with finger tips...bottom bolt is installed using opposing fingertips from over and under then snugged up with wrench from underneath in 1/4 turn increments as its that tight to stringer...Yeah, the idea of pulling a 4th time is not on my preferred list...its why I decided to spend money rebuilding a working starter...just so if I needed to change it down the road, I wouldn't have to do again for a long time.

Thanks for the help...