Remove Bertram's glue?

[scot]

Trying to get the material off the V berth sides. The 45 year old cloth / vinyl tears right out, but the glue that Bertram used is a mess! Tried sanding and it clogs the sander wheel and basically just smears. I ran into the same problem when I re-did a Searay many years ago. I sanded for days, and never achieved a complete removal. Has anyone figured out a way to get that glue off? I want to fair and paint the area.

Thanks

[gplume]

Scot-

Have not had to remove the Bertram glue, but just ripped up approximately 35 year hold wall to wall carpeting from my basement. Glue was impossible to get up untill I found a product called Goof off. Got it at Home Depot. Use the industrial stength ....but I woul test it pn a smaal piece of fiberglass to make sure no reation. With scotch bright this was the only product that worked for my glue removal project. Strong chem odor ...where a mask.

Br
Giff

[CaptPatrick]

That sh!t is a bitch! I used a heat gun and various scrapers to remove the majority of the glue then mineral sprits and rags to scrub off pretty much of the rest. To fair and paint, first give the surface a couple coats of B-I-N primer/sealer, sand and follow with Awlgrip 545 primer, followed with Awlfair troweled on. Sand away.....

[scot]

That sh!t is a bitch!

I feel better, if the good Captain doesn't have simple solution, it must be brutal stuff LOL. I was thinking about trying Strip-ez? Surely "something" will cut or at least soften this crap. Between a heat gun, Goof off and Strip-ez, it's apparently not coming off without a fight.

[Yannis]

When I removed mine, the glue was very dry and a good part of it was taken off by sanding it with an electric disc sander (like the one we cut tubes with, only the disc was appropriate for sanding).




Then, I scraped it with a rag impregnated in aceton, and a hand scraper, for hours. Eventually, it became like this:




Then , I put a prefabricated 3mm layer of gellcoated fiberglass like so. Good luck and wear a mask when sanding.






This is what this surface looked like before placing. Initially we had planned to lay it up in ONE piece per side. However, because of the hull's double curving (back to forward and top to bottom) this fiberglass could not take the shape of the hull side in one piece, so we cut it in 3 almost equal pieces.


This is the back side of the surface:

[scot]

Very nice Yannis.

3mm layer of gellcoated fiberglass

did you buy the prefabricated panels, or lay them up yourself?

[Yannis]

My "plastician" layed it up at his shop, and brought it over in his truck.
In this pic the left panel is already in place. The technician is putting glass paste in the middle. To help retain the thing while the paste cures, two spreads of sikaflex and double sided tape all around. The glass paste made such a good bonding and, in the process, raised the temperature by so much, that you can see the areas (3 per side) where it was applied, on the outside of the hull !

[Pete Fallon]

Scot,
The glue is almost impossible to get it all out of the woven roven. Heat gun, wire brushes, I finally softened it up with Acetone soaked terry cloth towel from Home Depot. Soak rags in Acetone and cover areas for 15 minutes It really softens up glue, make sure to have lots of fans for ventilation and a air supply mask to breathe. I had 2 24" shop fans going and a Scott Pack breathing apparatus . Took about 3 to 4 gallons of Acetone. I covered the V berth walls with white vinyl foam backed material, its almost impossible to get all the glue out and doing a couple of coats of high build added extra time and expense..
Pete Fallon

[scot]

Capt Patrick,

Is it possible that a heat gun could heat the hull to a point that the paint on the exterior is damaged, bubble or blister? I know when I use the rubber wheels for decal removal the paint will bubble and blister if I stay in one spot too long and it gets too hot.

Yannis,

Was the gelcoat laid directly into cloth to create a gelcoat / cloth veneer, or was it laid as a base, then cloth + resin?

[Yannis]

Scot,

He used a melamine/formica clean support, upon which he first laid the gel-coat with a brush. After it dried, he applied a few (I think two) layers of fine cloth, each soaked in resin. The result is a smooth and flexible 2-3 mm surface. The point was that this new material (surface) could not be flexed in two different directions simultaneously, hence we cut it and placed it as seen.
He made a mistake and chose a tint slightly darker/more yellow than the Bertram off-white that I had told him. Nevertheless, it seemed nice to me so we went with that; it gives a warmer cabin look that matches the light brown mattresses... you know, that kind of "dynasty" appeal so much sought after by guys like me !!

[IRGuy]

Having lived in the chemical manufacturing and distribution world for a good bit of my working life I am probably somewhat paranoid about safety. Having helped fight a burning propane trailer in the middle of a chemical plant can do that to you.

Please remember that using acetone or any other flammable material in an enclosed space such as a forepeak creates not only a health hazard when you breathe the vapors, but you also have a potential bomb. I would use a fan or blower to pump fresh air INTO the boat rather than using it to suck out the vapors. Consumer oriented fans and blowers are NOT EXPLOSION PROOF and could ignite the very vapors you are trying to remove.

Think safety!

[scot]

IRGuy.. all good advice. My cap has been removed in the bow section, so I'm not working in a confined space. Lots of fresh air, and I typically do jobs like this on windy days to help with the vapors, dust, etc. A V berth bomb I don't need.

I don't think Obama care would cover an accident on a carbon footprint pig like my boat. :-)

[STraenkle]

Sure Obama Care would cover it, you just have to prove you can't afford the boat, then he will buy you a new one because it would not be fair if you didn't have a boat when others do and pay the medical bills, but only if you can prove you were too stupid to realize petroleum vapors can ignite.

So Scot, I guess your right, you would not be covered....

[CamB25]

Scot -

I used various wire wheels and flapper disks on a 4.5" grinder...no acetone. I got it to the point where I was starting to expose roving and all the goo was in the valleys of the roving and I stopped. I figured there was enough clean glass and resin to bond to at that point, i.e bridge the valleys. Most of the area is now covered up by the bow seating arrangement, but in the anchor locker I had no trouble prepping and applying bilge paint.

If I were to finish the area I would first lay up a thin layer of cloth, say 2oz, to act as sanding surface and a way to fill the valleys in the weave. I did this in other areas of the hull, and it worked well. My method:
- grind to clean up ridges of weave
- clean surface with acetone
- spread thickened epoxy (silica) over area to fill weave
- lay 2oz glass
- overcoat with fairing compound or straight epoxy when "green"
- let cure
- wash (I'm not always good about doing this, but I've never had a bonding problem do to amine blush)
- sand fair
- prime/fair/paint

Happy grinding!
Cam

[CamB25]

and..if you were thinking about covering the area with a panel I would investigate using 3M VHB tape instead of a resin. That tape is amazing stuff...it's truly structural. You'll avoid the risk of print-thru due to curing heat of the resins.

Cam

[M. REY]

I used a nylon brush wheel, what a pain in the??? "trasero?" I´m sure this glue would pass the quality control of the Roman empire, I still remember the smell............

[Yannis]

I agree with Cam.

If I had to redo the panel placing, I'd just use sikaflex and double tape without any resin paste. The sikaflex for eternal bonding, and the tape for keeping the panels in place while the sika cures.
And yes, print-thru is the term !! Although someone has to specifically show you the thru marks to see them.

[Rawleigh]

When I worked in a boatyard during the Summers back in the early 80's we used to lay a box fan down over the forward hatch for forced air ventilation when working with anything that generated fumes in the cabins. I cannot tell you how many throbbing headaches I had from breathing acetone or alcohol fumes while resealing Columbia sailboat windows! I would probably be a lot smarter if I had all of those brain cells back!

[TailhookTom]

That sh!t is a bitch! I used a heat gun and various scrapers to remove the majority of the glue then mineral sprits and rags to scrub off pretty much of the rest. To fair and paint, first give the surface a couple coats of B-I-N primer/sealer, sand and follow with Awlgrip 545 primer, followed with Awlfair troweled on. Sand away.....

What he said times 4 -- I still have battle scars from removing that crud! If only they could use that stuff on HRC's whiny mouth!!!!!!

Tom