6bt cummins

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 27th, '14, 17:56

what a mess going to tear the rest of the way apart soon see what's salvageable doesn't look horrible yet

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 27th, '14, 20:49

Don't look bad to me.....I assume the "Red" fluid in the cylinders is either Red Diesel fuel or ATF.

I see a slight bit of rust on #6.....be sure to check the Exhaust Elbow for interior deterioation.

hb

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 27th, '14, 21:16

Harry it's atf the motors were under water soaking the Pistons trying to free them up so I can pop them out

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 27th, '14, 21:17

Tom

When you put them back together and you paint them, Awlgrip them. They really don't look too bad. Good luck.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 28th, '14, 07:56

Everybody has their "Majic Potion" for penetrant......the favorite among the majority on this site is CX....and it truly works great.....long time ago Seafoam came in an aerosol can and worked very well.

I use the Liquid form of Seafoam in my motorcycle and other small engines.....I think it will also work good as a penertrant.

Hb

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 28th, '14, 14:44

harry sea foam is a product I use often definitely good stuff never tried it for a penetrant though

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 28th, '14, 14:56

50/50 ATF and acetone is pretty good too!

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 28th, '14, 16:31

the trannys that came with the motors are twin disc 502-1 1.54 :1 10 degree angle are these something I should rebuild and use or are they antiquated
thanks

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 28th, '14, 20:19

really not bad at all crank and rods no rust

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 28th, '14, 20:51

Tom wrote:the trannys that came with the motors are twin disc 502-1 1.54 :1 10 degree angle are these something I should rebuild and use or are they antiquated

I would run the Twin Disc......they worked well once upon a time and will work well once again....the only thing I do not know is the cost of rebuild vs new or newer gears.......I don't see their age as a factor.

The inside of the engine looks great to me.....freshen up the ole girl then put her nose into the wind! ! !

What horsepower are those engines?

hb

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 28th, '14, 21:16

210s harry im going to research the trans they are kinda voodoo to me

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 29th, '14, 10:36

Invest in a needle scaler to get the old paint off. Northern Equipment and Harbor Freight both have reasonable priced models.

Here is the cheap one I use. It also works great at cleaning the running gear of growth.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 2817_12817

STraenkle · Post by **STraenkle** » Oct 29th, '14, 12:16

I don't know if I would put 210HP engines in. It will sip the fuel, but a 31 at 16 to 18 knots is painful, it handles horribly, and well, takes days to get there. But I guess it depends on what you use it for. However correct me I am wrong, but with those motors you would expect a 16 to 17 cruise and WOT of maybe 19 or 20? Just making sure you know what you are spending all this time and effort on and the end result.

I talked to a guy on the Cape Cod canal in Sandwich that had 4bta @ 210HP, he said he only did inshore stuff, just took too long to do anything else, but only filled up with fuel once or twice a year.

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 29th, '14, 13:32

im not sure what my speed will be but doing some searching on here I think this was walters post
My Cummins 210's @ 23-2400 rpms gives me 21 kts @ 15 gph and I could cruise at that speed for hours without stressing them.
so im hoping that I get about the same anyone else please chime in 16 knots wont cut It for me

Terry Frank · Post by **Terry Frank** » Oct 29th, '14, 13:45

I've 210's on my boat. 2300-2400 rpm will give you 20-21 knots.

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Oct 29th, '14, 13:47

I had 250s in my Fbc, 2400 would give 24 kts. The 210s at 2100 I would guess20 kts, 28 if you send the props to Bob :-)

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 29th, '14, 15:32

Tom, I have 3208 NA 210 hp I cruise with my good props 22knts @2400 rpm wot 26-27 knts @2950 rpms. My props I have on now 21- 25knts wot.
Those cummings are alot lighter than my Cats 1000 lbs less maybe. I burn about 14 gph @ cruise. Next time your down were go for a ride.
Motors look good not bad shape. Good luck with the rebuild.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Oct 29th, '14, 19:04

By looking at the flywheel end looks like the engines weren't all the way under, rust line at crank..it's all about fuel and air, bet you can get 250 hp with just an injector and pump change..engines don't look too bad on the internals ..my comfort cruise is 25.7 rough water nice ride is 22 knots that's in the sh@t..the hull eats it up..BH

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 29th, '14, 21:11

Tom

Figure at 3000 RPM's the gas engines gave you 19 knots at 25 to 30 Gallons an hour. The 210's will give you 19 to 20 knots at half the fuel consumption. So you are at the same place running offshore time wise, and half the fuel burn. So figure you will be in the hudson in 4 hours and using around 50 gallons or less. Troll all day, stay the night troll all the next day , come home, I bet less than 150 gallons used.

My 270's are giving me 23 knots at 2200 RPM and 25 at 2400 and just shy of 30 at 2600.

I think to get to 250HP you would need a turbo, not sure. So that could get expensive if you went with two new pumps, injectors and Turbos. Maybe Bruce or Bob Lilco will be able to tell you.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 29th, '14, 22:37

My thoughts are.....these engines have Turbos and are 210 HP. I believe that adding a Freshwater aftercooler and turning the fuel up a notch or so will crank out 250 HP.

hb

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 30th, '14, 14:43

those are my thought too harry nobody seems to try that if im changing many of the parts If I can make more power I will
that rust line is just where the water drained down to they were full pulled the other head off today second motor looks better then the one in the pic I should be ok
oil pans were full of water still but I think it helped keep rust at a minimum being under water
heads are going to machine shop tonight

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 30th, '14, 16:20

Just remember that Speed and Power cost money $$$$$$$$$$$$.......soooooooo........How fast did you say you want to go!?!?!?....LOL

hb

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Oct 30th, '14, 17:40

Ya I don't need to go that fast lol but if I have to change it and I get get one to make it faster money well spent!!! And capt Frank I will take you up on that for sure I bought a skiff for the next trip down also

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 30th, '14, 21:36

1962 31 wrote:Ya I don't need to go that fast lol but if I have to change it and I get get one to make it faster money well spent!!! And capt Frank I will take you up on that for sure I bought a skiff for the next trip down also

Ok it is official. Tom has the boat bug. He has a need for more than one boat.

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Nov 3rd, '14, 16:47

tony the skiff is great fish the canal all night run around the river and spend 5 bucks on gas
sent out the heads the blocks and cranks to the machine shop we'll see how they look all cleaned up

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Nov 3rd, '14, 17:23

210's were Uncle Vic's engines and he loved them. We ran them wide open all over the Gulf and got some over twenty. Your engines look like mine and are about the same age. Mine are 300's. The difference back then was they took 210's and added injectors (not big enough), pump, intercooler and made 300's. Scoop was they would go like stink but had short lives. U.V. recommended I run mine like 210's (not over about 2200 and 22 knots) "and they'll run forever." So far so good. Will tell you I cranked them up WOT, over 3400 and about 35 knots, but it scared the hell out of me. Didn't buy Dreamsicle as a speed boat, but as a fishing/cruising boat. She's the best!
Get'er done!

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 3rd, '14, 18:05

Mikey,

It was Walter with the 210s, UV had 270s...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 3rd, '14, 22:21

1962 31 wrote:tony the skiff is great fish the canal all night run around the river and spend 5 bucks on gas
sent out the heads the blocks and cranks to the machine shop we'll see how they look all cleaned up

Tom

Don't blame you. I would pick up a little skiff but I don't have enough time for the Bert let alone another one. Could use a good bay boat. Crabbing off a 31 Bert is just embarrassing.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 4th, '14, 06:36

Here my little bay skiff

Flats fishing, clamming, crabbing, tubing and best of all you can stand at the wheel with your line in the water. In 30 minutes to an hour I can trailer to places the Bertram would take an entire day and a tank of fuel to get too.

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Nov 4th, '14, 08:28

I got a little 14 foot Sundance skiff with a 25 Yamaha tiller love the 2 stroke smell
tony I went crabbing once this summer and tied up to my buddies 28 bert its was a big floating Bertram grabbing flotilla lol

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Nov 4th, '14, 09:26

Pat, No wonder Another Joy ran like a scalded dog!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Nov 4th, '14, 10:27

PeterPalmieri wrote:Here my little bay skiff

What's that oval barrel hanging of the top?!...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 4th, '14, 11:59

Navatech wrote:What's that oval barrel hanging of the top?!...

It's a stripping basket, I have a sighting platform above the helm and a wirelessly controlled power pole, it allows me to have fly rod ready to cast from the platform. It's just clipped on and pops right off.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Nov 4th, '14, 12:32

I picked up a pair of (lightly used 90's era) 6bta's last year for my 31 Bahia mar resto/repower.
They're rated @ 250hp ea.
I'm apprehensive that they might not be enough for those fast cruise days.
Going to keep the boat light by replacing a lot of the wood in the cockpit with coosa board, no tower or heavy duty fishing stuff, etc.
I've not talked to my mechanics yet about this (boosting the hp) but would welcome any insight from those in the know here.
So what do you think?
What can be done that won't severely diminish the motors life expectancy?
Thanks in advance.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 4th, '14, 22:11

John

I have the 270's which is the same engine as the 250. Not wure what you are looking for, but remember it is only a 31 foot boat. There are only so many days you can crank it up. When we first set her up at 2200 RPM's I was at 22 knots, at 2400 I was at 24 knots, topped out at just shy of 30 knots.

She ran that way for a few years. Had to have the props redone this year, what ever they did they put them right on the money. Nothing changed in the boat. At 2200 I was hitting just shy of 24 knots, and at 24 knots I had a little over 25 knots. Topped out at 30.

I originally wanted to go a little bigger but the Diesel Mech talked me out of it. He said, for the 7 months or so we get to use them, the extra maintence on the turbo was not worth it. Salt water vs fresh water cooled. Also about 6 to 7 thousand more to go up at that time.

I am real happy with the performance of the 270's.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Nov 5th, '14, 08:00

Tony,
I am used to a 23kt to 25kt cruise out of my B25 Sport Convertible, and got spoiled this summer when we were cruising 35 mph in the B25 Bahia Mar.
I think I'll be disappointed if I don't get at least a 25kt cruise out of the B31.
Wonder what I have to do to get to 270hp ?
I've briefly looked at some of the peripheral replacement/upgrades that Tony Athens offers and will be having a discussion with him aswell.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers,
John

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Nov 7th, '14, 09:08

got the cranks back this morning just needed to be polished and are in spec
any suggestions on kits for the rebuild I know there are cheepo kits out there im not looking to go that rout but any good aftermarket kits anyone can suggest or go with cummins factory parts

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Nov 7th, '14, 09:31

Saw this on YouTube. Don't know if it can help.

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Nov 7th, '14, 09:50

funny I actually watched that last week if there's runs good im sure mine will be great talk about a clean work area!!
but it did help knowing if there are any special things I need these are pretty basic motors

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Dec 9th, '14, 08:58

Here's another rebuild that looks pretty complete.

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Dec 9th, '14, 11:38

thanks joe ill check that one out later you tube wont work on this computer