YANMAR 6-LPE-STE

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 28th, '14, 08:38

On a trip offshore (4 hours in to trip @ 2200 rpms) the dreaded cilcking/bang on starboard motor I shut it down it did not stall.Said a prayer that the man above would fix it,but he must have been busy with other s--t! After 13 hours @ 6 nts (thank capt pat fot the rudders) back to home base.I removed valve covers to find the adjuster on valves laying on the bottom of head.had certified marine mech ck He said I have never seen that happen (only me).Going to remove head & check lower end.Should I grab my ankles!!! Any thoughts on what happened.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Sep 28th, '14, 10:57

I'm unfamiliar with that specific model... Are you sure it's not a 6LP-STE?!... I have access to a service manual for that one...

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 28th, '14, 19:12

sorry drop the e 6lp ste

matt ciarpella · Post by **matt ciarpella** » Sep 28th, '14, 19:16

Adjusters screw for a valve or valves for a single cylinder or the whole rack? If just a valve adjustment screw, I would reinstall/replace test run before removing the head but then again i do my own work and am no cert mech
There are a good amount of folks here that are though as i am sure you are aware.
Matt

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 28th, '14, 19:23

not the screw ,but the casting that comes from the rocker arm.I would love to replace broken part & move on .The yanmar mech sugested that I ck lower end . Did the valve do lower end damage or why did it brake.

matt ciarpella · Post by **matt ciarpella** » Sep 28th, '14, 19:37

is the valve rod bent?
Is the valve spring still intact?

if no and yes i would try a new rocker arm first. you will need one any way.
It could have been a bad cast, That is only my opinion, Im sure Bruce or someone will weigh in.
if the spring is still intact I would think it kept the valve from "dropping" into the cylinder

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 28th, '14, 19:46

everything is still intact.When i push down on valve it moves pushes down with no problem

matt ciarpella · Post by **matt ciarpella** » Sep 28th, '14, 20:04

"lifting rod"

May have to take the head off to check for bent or broken valve, they can break apart in the cylinder. I really dont know about "lower end"??

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Sep 29th, '14, 05:14

killa wrote:sorry drop the e 6lp ste

OK, that's a OHC (Over Head Camshaft) engine... I.e. it doesn't have pushrods... The camshaft pushes the rocker arms directly... You have also stated that the valve moves freely (i.e. it's not bent) and that the spring is whole... My first guess would be a faulty/tired casting... Possibly compounded by a loosened adjustment screw... As long as the spring held (and you say it did) then there's little to no chance of clearance damage to the valve...

Here's what I would do i if it were mine:

* Check compression on that hole (and a couple of others for reference if you don't have that information)... If the compression is good and not significantly different from the others I'd simply replace the rocker arm and move on... To be safe I'd turn the engine by hand to make sure there's nothing stuck or unstuck... Then, after starting it, I'd try and hear if all sounds as it should (i.e. no rattling sounds)...

* If the compression is not good or significantly different from the others then I'd have a look at the lower side of the head...

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 30th, '14, 10:57

apon further review the valve opposite the one with broken valve adj has a missing valve guide & retainer over sping is bent.will have to replace that valve.Hopefully the valve did not damage and the reason for problem in the first place was that the cast on valve adj was weak or so far out of adj caused it to break. Note some of part names I made up . (Framing Contractor not mechanic)

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Sep 30th, '14, 11:53

killa wrote:apon further review the valve opposite the one with broken valve adj has a missing valve guide & retainer over sping is bent.will have to replace that valve.Hopefully the valve did not damage and the reason for problem in the first place was that the cast on valve adj was weak or so far out of adj caused it to break. Note some of part names I made up . (Framing Contractor not mechanic)

It would help if you posted pictures or, at least, tried getting the part names correct... Having said that, the broken piece could have caused collateral damage while it was bouncing around before you shut it down... I'm still not sure you need to replace that valve (requires head job)...

killa · Post by **killa** » Sep 30th, '14, 11:58

the tech said that because the valve guide let go the valve my have bounced of the piston & the missing piece of guide may be sitting on top of piston & feels the valve is bent

matt ciarpella · Post by **matt ciarpella** » Sep 30th, '14, 19:29

Sounds about right. Once he yanks the head you'll know what you have. in more ways then one.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '14, 12:24

"Bounce off the piston" thats a new term! Swalow a valve is more like it and we have two (stp's) in the shop because there are no cylinder heads available . Most likely $2500.00 if you can find it.

killa · Post by **killa** » Oct 1st, '14, 13:30

As i said earlier being a framing contractor my explanation might be different from yours.We all have our own expertise.I was looking for help.not your entertainment

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '14, 14:04

Ok then lets go with "strong back" building the best of the best stick build homes what is your interpretation of stong back

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '14, 14:06

Ok then building on cape cod you would be among the best of the best because you stick build. What do you consider strong back

killa · Post by **killa** » Oct 2nd, '14, 11:17

Bob i have notice that people post / text thing that they would not say face to face.maybe we can further this another time.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 2nd, '14, 13:11

Can I call time out? Count me as totally lost.....

We've got an argument going on here in a language most can not understand.

If I was to translate this into English it would have said, what exactly?

"....... the valve my have bounced of the piston & the missing piece of guide may be sitting on top of piston & feels the valve is bent"

followed by

""Bounce off the piston" thats a new term! Swalow a valve"

"Ok then lets go with "strong back" building the best of the best stick build homes what is your interpretation of stong back"

Keeping in mind I passed the 8th grade English regents with a sold 70%, I'm counting at least 10 grammatical or spelling mistakes.

Now if this happened to say in English that "the valve might have broken off the piston" Mr. Lico probably would have likely been able to swalow the news better and would not have insulted anyone by challenging those skilz as a stong back.

I'm just saying...

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Oct 2nd, '14, 14:19

I am just interested in finding out why and how
thank you

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 2nd, '14, 14:32

Charlie J wrote:I am just interested in finding out why and how
thank you

Me to Charlie. Just trying to diffuse the situation here, maybe I shouldn't have jumped in.....

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 2nd, '14, 14:57

Me to Charlie. Just trying to diffuse the situation here, maybe I shouldn't have jumped in.....

Nope, ya' done good Pete. Thanks!

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Oct 2nd, '14, 15:10

Hey look, I own two stoke outboards on a PURSUIT!

Okay, pressure is off everyone else!

Tom

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 2nd, '14, 21:43

Peter

I am as lost as you are.

No matter how you slice it, it looks like it could have swallowed the valve. The piston could have hit the valve and driven it back up so it looks like it is in place. A compression check would be a dead give away since that piston could be shot. I know gas engines and I am just learning about diesels. But a swallowed valve is the same both ways. I don't care what you call it hitting the piston is not good.

I would fix what you have and run a compression check. If it checks out you might be good. If that valve hit the piston, you have a problem unless you are the luckiest guy in world. Someone else can say better than me, but I would think that if you dropped that valve and it hit the piston, you would be smoking out the exhaust like crazy right away. Think of watching a race when they blow an engine. Nothing but blue smoke out the back. Usually it is a blown piston letting all the oil blow by and out the exhaust.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 2nd, '14, 22:03

Good explanation tony ok. Let me clear the air.Cape cod building code is one of the strictest in the country.normaly the house framer can put a single 2 x4 on the flat acosss the attic ceiling beams so the beams don't walk. When a framer uses stong back he lays a 2 x 4 " on the flat then nails a 2 x4" along side it forming a capital letter L .the strength goes up ten fold thus the term strong back. This is a compliment in the carpender world meaning no short cuts build right.pete you have some terms in your world wereby most of us would be dunbfounded like PE ratio,EPS,put- call ratio,stop order,and so on i am still learning.i hope i explain myself.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 3rd, '14, 06:28

Tony Meola wrote:No matter how you slice it, it looks like it could have swallowed the valve. The piston could have hit the valve and driven it back up so it looks like it is in place.

I doubt that VERY much... For the valve to be swallowed the retainer clips (on the top of the valve stem) would have to let loose... That would also mean that the valve spring and valve spring cap would be loose... OP hash't mentioned that these were rolling around... Add to that that the odds for the engine swallowing the valve and then pushing it back in place are 1 to infinite...

I have been around diesel engines since 1970... I have never seen anything like that happen... And, none of my grease monkey buddies have heard let alone seen something like that happen...

At this point my advise to the OP is as follows: based on the fact that you say that part of the valve guide came out there's no alternative... The head has to come off... A new valve guide HAS to be installed... Might as well do a full head job... I would even pressure test the head... Then you can put the head back...

HOWEVER, since you admit that you're unfamiliar with the correct terminology I VERY STRONGLY suggest that you post a few pictures... Without confirmed facts anything I say is pure speculation!...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 3rd, '14, 07:57

I posted a actual photo of a yanmar stp that swalow a valve two months ago we have two of them . One has 1500 hours the other 2200 hours. Keeper cracked and let go valve then went into cylinder striking the piston in number six hole.the photo showed the actual imprint of the valve on top of piston.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 3rd, '14, 10:14

bob lico wrote:I posted a actual photo of a yanmar stp that swalow a valve two months ago we have two of them . One has 1500 hours the other 2200 hours. Keeper cracked and let go valve then went into cylinder striking the piston in number six hole.the photo showed the actual imprint of the valve on top of piston.

Bob, I NEVER claimed that engines don't swallow valves... Unfortunately they do... Even if not that often... But I have yet to hear let alone see a valve that fell into the cylinder and then got pushed back into its hole... The odds for that to happen are mind boggling... When a valve gets swallowed it's usually hammered into pieces in short order... In the process both the piston head and cylinder head get trashed...

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Oct 3rd, '14, 10:50

The Mean Team is probably going to ban me for life for this --- but all persons debating each other on this thread please watch and sing along to the following you tube video. Teen age girls don't nipick and snipe at each other this much.

That is all -- banned for life by Mike and the Mean Team!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HtACLaRDk0

Tom

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Oct 3rd, '14, 15:32

With all this talk of swallowing and getting banned for life I was expecting that link to contain porn.
So disappointed.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Oct 4th, '14, 08:38

A thought Bob, can you feed a borascope through that cyl's injector hole? If you can, that could give you a semi detailed accessment as to damage between head and piston. We do this all the time before we order a teardown to satisfy insurance or warranty claims. Of course that is a spark plug hole on gas engines.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 4th, '14, 09:12

Rocky wrote:A thought Bob, can you feed a borascope through that cyl's injector hole? If you can, that could give you a semi detailed accessment as to damage between head and piston. We do this all the time before we order a teardown to satisfy insurance or warranty claims. Of course that is a spark plug hole on gas engines.

If the OP's claim that the valve guide popped out is factual then the head has to come off regardless... That's why I didn't suggest a borescope... And yes, I stick borescopes down injector holes quite often...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 4th, '14, 18:19

Rocky sometimes i think ofthe situationsi had as a young man whie hunting and you come out of forest and encounter a fence.after unloading and getting over wire fence without getting hung up your partner comes out 50yards down and opens the gate! Well this is what we have you take off valve cover and look at number six hole and look to see if the valve is still held in by keeper. Definitly beats taking the million dollar snap on borescope out and go thru the cylinder inspection ordeal.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 5th, '14, 05:10

Killa,

Any results yet? I'm with you wait for a call from the mechanic and a bill in the mail.

Good luck

Pete

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Oct 5th, '14, 11:56

As far as sequence of events and why yes, head comes off - Bob I know you deal with the 6LP or did a lot, what typically lets go to drop the valve and is there a revision of parts going back into the head?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 5th, '14, 16:06

Rocky i don't want to sound naive but if i i had to analyze the breakdown i would definitly say it look like spring bind like a rookie kid putting a high lift cam in a engine with stock valve springs. The spring retainer fails and the valve drops down SLIGHTLY not completely fall into cylinder like gas engine . The piston hits the valve and pushes up and ultimately bends the valve and destroys valve guide/seat cannot repair valve seat so head must be replace but not available at reasonable. price.

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Oct 5th, '14, 17:10

Can I ask a question about trim tabs on, oh never mind

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Oct 5th, '14, 17:20

Wow that sounds like Yanmar is not still supporting parts for 6LP-STPE, let's hope for the best for Killa maybe get lucky with what lies beneath that head.
Hoping for the best!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 6th, '14, 07:01

bob lico wrote:Rocky i don't want to sound naive but if i i had to analyze the breakdown i would definitly say it look like spring bind like a rookie kid putting a high lift cam in a engine with stock valve springs. The spring retainer fails and the valve drops down SLIGHTLY not completely fall into cylinder like gas engine . The piston hits the valve and pushes up and ultimately bends the valve and destroys valve guide/seat cannot repair valve seat so head must be replace but not available at reasonable. price.

Sound naive...LOL...now that's funny.

That's a hell of a "guess" from a naive person.
Such a shame, Yanmar really had the market for years in my area. Whats really ashame is people spend lots of money with expectations of achieving a highly reliable boat and wind up with major problems...then have to deal with lousy support to boot.
Its a kick in the groin followed by being asked to bend over.

I feel for you killa...hope we are all wrong and it turns out to be something simple so you can get back out there in short order with little expense.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 6th, '14, 07:39

Carl back to you; a 1967 corvette 427" big block with block casting number ending in 351 is worth $7000.00 dollars because the car is worth 125,000 so even if you bore out all 8 cylinders and sleeve it what ever the machine cost it would be worth saving block .a 1968 block is worth 500 dollars but car is worth 40,000 because numbers don't match .with this being said you could have someone like you bore a oversize valve seat then replace.next bore right thru valve guide and replace with o/s guide i don't know if available but you could make one because the price is right.replacement value of engine is 25,000 so whatever you have to do to repair head is feasible. Catapilar 3116 cylinder head about $1600.00 , cummins $1500.00 and yanmar $3000.00 with a rebuildable core if i had a rebuildable core i would not buy a new head would !! Mack boring does not have machine work available for Yanmar anymore nor will they repair so that killed the 100 mile circle of yanmars sales centered on mystic conn.oakdale yacth is hurting because they sold a slew of Luhrs with yanmar power as well as skipjack and these people come here for maint. As well as slip space .you have to due what you can to help .

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 6th, '14, 08:00

Whats your opinion on welding fill in to combustion chamber to repair gouges made by valve? I don't think it is as significant as a CNC chamber aluminum racing cylinder head and that holds up you would have a better chance with cast iron. Price being no object you could also use automotive bronze valve guide and machine to fit yanmar head with Viton oil seal like i said the cost and availibilty makes any machining feasible.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 6th, '14, 08:38

Bob: Are you familiar with the products of this company? It definitely beats welding cast iron if ther are any cracks.

http://www.locknstitch.com/

Also here is a place that specializes in cast head repairs and uses a proprietary(well, maybe) welding procedure. A lot of the custom tractor guys recommend them.

http://www.midwestcylinderhead.com/videos.php

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 6th, '14, 09:04

That photo of the combustion chamber on the midwest site pretty much sums up what the yanmar combustion chamber looks like.i imagine it would cost a fortune to ship a 6 cylinder cast iron cylinder head to them and back then still have to deal with valve guide issue. The site for stitching cracks in cast iron is amazing .Harry Barb posted a repair her did on a engine and it worked perfect but then again harry is a exceptional machinist .we and Beval automotive machine shop have not had to deal with yanmar cracked cylinder heads the problem may be spring harmonics due to high speed diesel design,who knows.basicly the bean counters at yanmar say why bother with a product that is less then 1 percent of revenue.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Oct 6th, '14, 12:22

Bob-
We used to rebuild SS Homogenizing Heads years ago that were crazy expensive...Aside from the cost of the head it was the heart of the equipment being bought and sold so cost of repair was never the issue...just had to be done. Oversize holes welded or sleeved with 316SS Sleeves, Stellite seats, new 316SS pistons machined...whatever was needed. That said I am sure it can be done by somebody with the right skills, tooling and processes. It wouldn't be me, that is for sure. There is a reason Mack Boring and lots of shops do not want to deal with that work.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 6th, '14, 15:10

bob lico wrote:Whats your opinion on welding fill in to combustion chamber to repair gouges made by valve?

The head itself is cast iron or cast steel... Both are notoriously hard to weld properly... If I were you and assuming the head passes a pressure test I'd leave the gouges as they are... They won't significantly change the compression ratio... They also won't significantly change the ignition pattern... Now, if you have a crack (or cracks) that's a whole different matter... In that case, and considering the cost of a new head being above $3,000.00 I'd certainly give welding (by a shop that knows what's it's doing) a try...

You have two engines so you can always get back home if one goes south...

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Oct 9th, '14, 03:50

BUMP

Killa- any feedback on the engines. maybe some photos if possible? I would like to know what happened.

As Bruce has posted elsewhere these are great engines but they need the correct maintenance that should be done by a conscientious and capable mechanic.

killa · Post by **killa** » Jan 16th, '15, 10:36

Just recived the news on the broken adjuster on rocker arm---2-pistions damaged scored walls---bearings on cam gone-- 2 valves gone---total rebuild 29000.00---new 30000.00--- any used motors same model out there.They say reason it was run with no oil.Lost a braided oil line 2 years ago I shut down motor when the alarm sounded I guess that was to late.I was told is has to be same model # ?Thanks for all the help--(BRUCE)

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 16th, '15, 10:51

killa
that's the second engine I heard lost to the braided oil line.
my friend just lost his last summer because of the same line.
they found a new block and are rebuilding his.
sorry for you loss

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 16th, '15, 21:52

Killa

Check with Mack Boring. They were the big Yanmar distributor around these parts.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jan 17th, '15, 22:04

That is sad to hear killa. Is there a fix for the hose? Does it rub and the hose fails or is it at the fittings? Any feedvback appreciated.

Another question. How would the old block be rebuilt that makes it so expensive versus a replacement block.