bertram31.com

I have lurked long enough! I am the proud new owner of an old 31 bahia mar. This boat was sold without engines. It previously had 210 cummins 6bt's in it. I purchased a pair of rebuilt 315 6bta's (called cummins and they are 1995 models) which will be installed once ready. My plan is a complete rebuild with a lot of custom touches, but honestly I would like to break that up into off-season projects and just get an operating boat to start with asap. The boat has 5" exhaust, 1 3/8" shafts and engine beds already for a 6bt cummins. The trannies are twin disc 5050a's 1.5:1. The cockpit sole is solid but looks terrible, which depending on how much I have to do initially, will be replaced at one time or another anyway. This boat has a neat factory hard top which I would like to utilize and have some ideas for that, which I will expound on later.

I have no experience with inboard boats really, other than being on them or briefly running them. I do have a lot of experience with boats in general though. I have previously rebuilt an old 14' McKee craft and a 25 Contender. I built a 14' skiff from scratch in my backyard when I was a senior in highschool, which I then took to college and managed to ruin my grades fishing my ass off in St. Marks, FL.

In order to have a usable boat, I feel like I need: shaft logs, dripless shaft seals, 1.5" shafts, strut bore/new cutlass bearings, props, rudders-and ports or just new packing glands on rudder ports, new rudder shelf, 6" exhaust, new fuel hoses, clean tank/new tank, basic wiring and battery bank, controls, new through hull fittings and probably a new deck or a temporary half ass deck that I pitch or re-use when I move on to cosmetic changes next fall.

What I dont need: A/C, generator, fridge, coaming pads, massive stereo with multiple amps, tuna tubes, disco ball, train horn, underwater lights, upper control station, interior, teak, paint, doilies or monogrammed towels until next fall...

I would love some feedback on any of the items I mentioned that I do need for a functioning boat or items I may have missed. I also would relish opinions on items that I may have mis-categorized as items I do not need. Other than that, I look forward to being a part of the forum and gaining a bit of wisdom and sharing what will most likely be a very protracted rebuild.

Devin

Welcome

You will get a bunch of opinions here, all of them good. First you should take a look at the tips section of the old site.

http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/index.htm

You will find some helpful item in this section. Such as how to build in fiberglass shaft logs. Next I would look at the old Parts section. While these parts are no longer available since the passing of Capt. Pat, this will also give you an idea to things about rudder sizes etc.

http://bertram31.com/parts/index.html

Now getting the boat ready. You are in Fort Worth so for the most part you will have a lot of good weather to rebuild her compared to us up here in the North East. But overall first thing is to make sure that you do not rush anything that will compromise your safety when using the boat. You may want to give up the summer season this year to make sure the boat is the way you want it. Without engines you have a lot of ahead of you.


Even though the engine beds were made for Cummins, are they in good shape? Are the way you will actually need them? Have they been capped.
See the link below fromt the Tips Section I posted above.
http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/engines.htm

Lets start with the engines and work back. Make sure the beds are the way you want them. Clean the bilge area, paint it or cover it in Gel Coat. Make sure the fuel tank is in good shape. Is it 170 Gallons or 230 Gallons. The earlier 31's all had 170 Gallon tank. Do you need a bigger tank? If you think you need a bigger tank you will need to pull the old tank and install a new one.


Now that you have that out of the way, and the bilge cleaned, next you need to plan out the engine & Transmission install. You may need a jig to get everything aligned up. At this point you will also need to think about the shaft log. You are at a point you will need to install a log to accept an 1 1/2 inch shaft. Will you go with a bronze shaft or will you glass one in?

http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/shaft_logs.htm

You will also probably need to rebuild the rudder shelf and you if it does not have the upgraded rudders on her, you should consider installing them now.

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... elf#p92015

While you are at it you will need to beef up the Strut area. That is a weak spot on the 31.

http://bertram31.com/proj/struts/strut_backing.htm
http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/bronze_shaft_alleys.htm

Then once you are done with all of this we can talk wiring.

Do not want to throw too much out there, but I am sure some others will add to what I just gave you. I am only getting youi started.

Tony, thank you very much for the welcome. I have read everything I could find of Capt. Pat's as well as all the build threads on here I could find.

The beds are extremely beefy, and I feel good about them as long as they are usable as you mentioned. I think they should be because its basically the same combo.

I think I must have the smaller of the tank sizes based on year. Would there be anything wrong with cleaning the old tank and using it for a while? Bilge is filthy and needs a serious scouring and painting. I am going to cut the entire floor out and remove everything I can before cleaning and refinishing. One day, perhaps after I have installed a generator and some other goodies, I will put a very nice cockpit sole in.

I would like to glass in extraneous through hulls and replace strainers with external strainers used by several on these boards.

On the point about fitting engines and transmissions.. the previous engines were 6bt's with MG-5050a transmissions, the new combo is 6bta's and mg-5050a's. I am making an assumption here that they should basically fit where the previous were. Would it make sense to align the new motors with the old running gear before switching any running gear out?

How many bilge pumps and where are they recommended typically or ideally?

heres pics of how she looked a year ago before the 210's were pulled






many thanks

I am not familiar with the MG Transmissions. Maybe Bruce can help with that one. Hopefully he will see your questions and respond.

As far as the fuel tank goes, as long as it has never seen ethanol gas you should be good to go. If it is empty, you just need to pull off the plate on the top of it and take a look inside to see what type of shape it is in. Cleaning out the tanks is not that easy. There are baffles in the tank. If she has been sitting with fuel in her for a while, then you might have an issue. If it is empty and has been I would try and add enough diesel fuel to cover the bottom of the tank . I would add a good additive for killing bacteria and Algae and see if after it sits for a week or so, you can suck it out along with whatever it picks up.

Usually to clean the tank they polish the heck out of the fuel. I would first try and figure out what you have before you worry about how to attack the problem.

Nothing wrong with 170 gallon fuel tank. Just is an issue of range. If you are not running far and the tank is in good shape just use it. In the boats with the 230 gallon tank, the deck has been raised to compensate for the larger tank. She sits higher and probably a little further back. It has been a long while since I have seen the 170 in a 31 so I don't remember how much further back they go. Capt. Pat used to recommend not going over 240 gallons to avoid upsetting the balance of the boat.

As far as bilge pumps, the boats came from the factory with two of them. One in the stern and one up front in the cabin. Everyone here will pretty much tell you to add an additional one between the engines and if you can put a Beckson port into that forward bulkhead so you can keep the area under the cabin floor dry. That way if you ever need to let the water flow forward you can just open the port.

Also, you might want to install a crash pump system just in case. You can T into the intake to the engines to set up a crash pump that you would use in an emergency and if set up right, you can flush the engines with it and if needed winterize the engines.

Not sure what others will say, but I would wait until you have the engines were you want them before trying to align everything. You may want to look at how close they are to the forward bulkhead. If possible you could shift them back a few inch's. They should set as far back as you can get them. The boat will ride a little better by shifting the weight aft even if only by inches.

Also, you say you are adding new running gear. Have a machine shop check the struts. I had 1 3/8 shafts before the repower, and they had enough beef on them to bore them out and then use a thin wall cutlass bearing. It will save you a few dollars.

By the way, for some reason I can not see your pictures.

Deven, I echo Tony’s welcome to you. You certainly came to the right place for advice on rebuilding a 31, so keep us posted and keep the progress pictures coming. Your initial picture shows clearly, but like Tony, I cannot view the last ones.

Welcome to the sandbox! l
Lots of great information to be had here. If you can't find in a search, just ask...someone usually knows.


Best of luck with the new boat.
While you have deck and motors up and out...check your bonding. Copper strip running along stringers with heavy green wire going to metal through hulls.

As to the cockpit floor, my original floor was marine ply, three panels covered in Nautilex. Same configuration as the fiberglass deck. I was going to remake as mine was shot, but found a used glass deck and went with that. Anyway, ply is pretty straight forward and not expensive. Down side is its wood...but your talking about changing if out in a few years anyway.

Struts, might be able to switch to a thin wall bearing or have bores opened to install larger cutless bearings. Otherwise new strut are not cheap...I'm dealing with this myself as I'm putting 210's in my boat and need to make or buy new struts.

Good luck, and again...welcome.

Carl

Love the old school hardtop, bit of a Bahia Mar fan. Stick with the Cummins power.
Good luck with the project and ask away that’s how to make sure you get it right. BH

Thanks to all for the welcome. A bit off topic, well not entirely... My first offshore tournament experience was on a 31B FB named Vamos in Port Aransas, TX for the "deep sea roundup" . This was a 454 powered boat and I was about 14 I think; it was 1993 if I remember correctly. The seas were 8-10 the captain was saying (true or not, I couldn't say now) but plenty of boats didn't go out. It got real nice in the afternoon and we surfed the big swells back in. I remember thinking the boat was huge and so so cool. Caught a bunch of big cudas but that was it. I guess the point to this is it's like the 26 year itch I am scratching... I will see if I can work on the pictures. She ain't much to look at now, but I realize it will be helpful for feedback. Thanks again for letting me play in your sandbox.

My idea is to stretch the hardtop. I like lots of shade, and more is betta for me and the ladies (2 daughters). I have not seen this done on a bertram but I did it on a CJ7 hard top stretched to fit a scrambler. My plan was to find an good area to cut horizontally and stretch it out 12-18" then build a mold on the top side with melamine strips, brace it, flip it, fair it, then glass it. I am not sure what the construction is inside the top and it may not be possible. I think a stretched hard top would be cool and functional. Has anyone every done surgery on one? My boat has some really fugly windows glassed into the front (old frame is gone in the front. I would like to cut all of that out and fab up some stanchions/pipes to go from the front (not sure what to call the fiberglass portion that is in place of the windshield and makes the bahia what it is) and support the top in lieu of the windshield frame, then put some isinglass in its place.

And to Tony M. I am thinking about just replacing the tank, I would rather have the range and I didn't think about all the algae and headache from using a long sitting tank. No sense putting bad fuel through fresh engines. Also the MG-5050a is a twin disc gear. Not common in B31's from what I've read on this board, but the 210 Cummins that came out of her had them behind them also. Rated to 385hp I think in pleasure craft rating.

Bob H. wrote:Love the old school hardtop, bit of a Bahia Mar fan. Stick with the Cummins power.
Good luck with the project and ask away that’s how to make sure you get it right. BH

Bob, I had found a link to a photobucket account for your boat at one point and I drooled over the helm setup. Could you post a link or pic here of that? It is seriously awesome!

Tommy wrote:Deven, I echo Tony’s welcome to you. You certainly came to the right place for advice on rebuilding a 31, so keep us posted and keep the progress pictures coming. Your initial picture shows clearly, but like Tony, I cannot view the last ones.

I think I fixed them, but I am not sure. Let me know if there was any change to the photos being visible or not.

Devin

Not sure about the others but I still can not see the pics. What hosting service are you using?

Tony Meola wrote:Devin

Not sure about the others but I still can not see the pics. What hosting service are you using?

Tony, I am using google photos. I was able to see it on my iphone after I hit refresh. Not sure, but I think the cache has to be refreshed. I also may not have fixed anything. I will try another service if that doesn't work.

I could be wrong, but from the post where we are not seeing the pictures I believe you might be entering the wrong kind of link. If your seeing and we are not you might be linking to your local folder and not the site.

When you copy the link in your post it should be formatted like below...







Have to make sure to copy the entire link and make sure its like the one above. You can kinda skip the middle, but make sure when you copy and paste link it starts and ends with the " Bracketed URL"



That link should give what is below

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fDVsW ... 15-h604-no

You need to have a link that starts with [ URL and ends with a closed URL in Brackets.

If you look at your link...it is starting with https.... that comes after
Either the link is not being copied and pasted correctly or it is the wrong link.

Here is an example of the ubb code in action, please click the links below to see the code which was used to present it

Note the code works by wrapping anything with a starting and an ending bracketed word, the ending bracketed word always has / to signify the closing of the wrapper.

your URL HERE

In order to get google to give you a good link which is shareable:

1. goto your photo album
2. click on the photo you want
3. with the desired photo visible - in the upper right hand side click the icon which looks like a sideways V with dots at the points. If you hover your mouse over it, it will say share. Click share
4. Another window will open up, where you can share with other, In the bottom there's an icon to share with anyone who has the link, click create link (here's an image of it) https://photos.app.goo.gl/b6jSN73RZYuMdTAU6
5. Another window will open up with the share-able link, Click copy (here's an image of it) https://photos.app.goo.gl/K27pm77Qnygbq3AXA
6. In the Bertram31 website click the URL button right above your text, it will create the opening and closing brackets with 1-2 characters worth of space between the opening and closing, paste your copied url in between. https://photos.app.goo.gl/t249Rcd218wsMsQM6

[img]Image%20link%20goes%20here[/img]

First click the IMG in the header. Your image url goes between the brackets. Same for a url link to a website.

I don't think that google drive images are compatible.

This is making me feel pretty dumb. I’m not sure what is going on. I revived a very old photo bucket account and tried to upload. I then experienced a new issue. When trying to select and copy a different photo and then paste that, it was always pasting the initial url for some reason. I’m not sure if I’m having issues with a flash plugin or what but I am going to attempt it on my desktop tomorrow.
Thanks for all help with the photos thus far. I cannot explain why one photo from
Google images would work and then not the rest either. I will figure it out.

Devinfox,

I can see ALL pics on my Dell laptop, but I can only see just the first one on my Apple I-Pad.
This is enough to puzzle you further I guess.
Good luck.

Pictures are now posted, looking good!

Actually sitting in the water, she looks pretty cool with that hardtop.

Thanks Tony, I agree. My only real gripe aesthetically is the windshield. I'm hoping I can support the top with aluminum pipe in a way that looks nice and allows me to use some isinglass when I need/want it. Another idea is to try to remake the windshield frame and have windows made for it. I've only seen a few of these factory hard tops. I am not sure how many of them were made like that. I like the lines of it, but I would like to extend it further aft. I would also like to put an upper control station up there, and I don't know if I could even modify it enough to make that work. We shall see. Hopefully I will get it home in the next week and into my shop. Then the fun will begin in earnest.

my boat:



what my Bertram wants to be when it grows up:

Devin,
I assume you want to extend the top for more shade. And you probably do not want to install those pivoting frame(s) anchored on the gunnels, otherwise you would have done that, it’s the most common shade on boats.

If you extend the existing top with a fiberglass addition, two things will happen: first you’ll add a lot of weight in an area that least needs it, second, you will create a surface so that when it’s windy (or when you cruise or moore) you’ll feel that the boat performs differently, not always to your advantage (to say the least).
Also, you would have to make a hole so that you can climb up to the bridge. And how nice would that look?

Instead, you could consider the following: create a sliding canvas within a frame; secure two ss tubes under the existing top’s port and starboard extremities parralel to the boat sides. These will not move. Then make a U frame of a slightly lesser diameter tube, that slides inside those permanent tubes so that when retracted forward you can avoid the wind effect, while you can easily pull it backwards to it’s full extended size. This U frame will be pulling along the tarp attached to it. To climb to the bridge, either make a rectangular closable cut/hatch (with laces or lycra) to the canvas and climb through there, or make so that there is no canvas material over the ladder at all.
I have also seen the same concept but instead of the sliding part moving fore or aft, the rear part is hinged and folds over the forward part which is permanent.
Just an idea when the sun becomes a problem.
Good luck.

Devin

In querying sea you are going to have a lot of water hitting that glass area. I am not so sure I would repl aced them with eisen glass.

I really like how John Cranston’s boat “Cowboy” is set up. I wonder if anyone that has a custom solution on a Bahia Mar could chime in? At the very least I would try to rebuild the windshield frame to resemble a more factory appearance. Currently it has aftermarket windows glassed into way too much fiberglass real estate. The effect is very little visibility/too closed in.

Yannis, I have seen what you are describing. A retractable shade... I like the idea of that. I’ve also seen what we called a Bahama shade in south Florida, which was a track on the back of a t-top/half tower etc that a shade would slide into then 2 poles that would sit in holders near the transom that the shade stretched out over. Tons of shade on the hook which is nice. If I did anything to the factory to the factory hard too I would have to consider weight and windage, excellent point. Probably should leave well enough alone and focus on the part I really hate which is the windshield frame and windows.

American marine made our new windshield,954-7821400 they are in pompano Bach fla,if you need anything else we have all the info from our rebuild send us a pm and we will show you our boat

Devin
JP helped me layout the helm area. We mocked it up
Using cardboard and made use of every inch. Can you still
Post from photobucket? Good luck on the rehab. Bh

neil wrote:American marine made our new windshield,954-7821400 they are in pompano Bach fla,if you need anything else we have all the info from our rebuild send us a pm and we will show you our boat

Thank you very much for the info and the offer! Do you have a Bahia Mar? Could you post a picture of her?

Bob H. wrote:Devin
JP helped me layout the helm area. We mocked it up
Using cardboard and made use of every inch. Can you still
Post from photobucket? Good luck on the rehab. Bh

Bob, I seem to have gotten photobucket and posting figured out. Do you have a link to your bertram photobucket file? I wish I had bookmarked that picture of your helm. It is awesome.

Click on Bobs avatar, under contacts you will find his website.
Click the link for a ton of awesome pictures.

If you're willing to remove the hard top all together there might be a better solution to meet your needs. I didn't put this hardtop on, but the previous owner (also named Charlie) is on this board regularly and might be able to share more info about where it was made.

My hardtop has heavy duty aluminum welds and is great for grabbing when walking forward to the bow and the top extends past the motor boxes. It has strataglass curtains that keeps the cockpit totally dry in weather. I had zippers cut in to panels to allow for them to be rolled up when the seas cooperate, it allows for breeze and shade. Happy to share dimensions, etc. Congrats on the new boat.

she looks good charlie

Hey Devin this is Neils son, Neil Jr. Just figured out how to post pics without photo bucket. We have had our Bahia Mar for 8 years now and racked up quite a few hours. I have made a lot of changes to her in the past few years and she is getting pretty close to perfect for what we like to do. JP Dalik helped me lay out new electronics last winter and this is how we did it.
It used to be like

We made a jig

And built a box out of coosa

2 winters ago was a big project year as well as I redid the back deck, building fish boxes and gutter system, once again with help from JP.
We began by making a jig up, seeing how big of a box could fit in the glass tech deck we had.

Then we cut the hole in the deck and made a gutter system to keep all water out of the boxes


Once the boxes had something to sit on we made a mold for the boxes themselves.




We insulated them with 1/2 foam and they hold ice great for our 2 days offshore trips
With a little luck and persuasion they popped out




And the final part was the make a lid out of 1/2 coosa that would sit flush


Once everything was all painted nicely we reassembled




And here is picture of our boat, the hardtop is a little different from yours and bobs, which I love. But it is nice on some of the warm summer days.





In the next month or so Im going to give her a paint job, If you have any questions please let me know. Best of luck with your new boat! Neil Jr.

Neil - really looking forward to seeing the pictures of your Bahia, unfortunately they are not visible in your previous posts. I posted on the "how to post images" thread. I would suggest using imgur, it works well and is easy. Link to the thread here: http://www.bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3 or just search my posts and it should pop up.

Charlie

cariedl wrote:If you're willing to remove the hard top all together there might be a better solution to meet your needs. I didn't put this hardtop on, but the previous owner (also named Charlie) is on this board regularly and might be able to share more info about where it was made.

My hardtop has heavy duty aluminum welds and is great for grabbing when walking forward to the bow and the top extends past the motor boxes. It has strataglass curtains that keeps the cockpit totally dry in weather. I had zippers cut in to panels to allow for them to be rolled up when the seas cooperate, it allows for breeze and shade. Happy to share dimensions, etc. Congrats on the new boat.

Gorgeous Boat! Thank you for posting pictures, it gets my wheels turning.

neil wrote:Hey Devin this is Neils son, Neil Jr. Just figured out how to post pics without photo bucket. We have had our Bahia Mar for 8 years now and racked up quite a few hours. I have made a lot of changes to her in the past few years and she is getting pretty close to perfect for what we like to do. JP Dalik helped me lay out new electronics last winter and this is how we did it.
It used to be like

We made a jig

And built a box out of coosa

Neil, that is really slick looking, I love those giant displays. Any issue with visibility?

neil wrote:2 winters ago was a big project year as well as I redid the back deck, building fish boxes and gutter system, once again with help from JP.
We began by making a jig up, seeing how big of a box could fit in the glass tech deck we had.

Then we cut the hole in the deck and made a gutter system to keep all water out of the boxes


In the next month or so Im going to give her a full paint job, If you have any questions please let me know. Best of luck with your new boat! Neil Jr.

I also cannot see the pictures, but I would sure love to. Thanks for posting. The more pictures the better!

cariedl wrote:Neil - really looking forward to seeing the pictures of your Bahia, unfortunately they are not visible in your previous posts. I posted on the "how to post images" thread. I would suggest using imgur, it works well and is easy. Link to the thread here: http://www.bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3 or just search my posts and it should pop up.

Charlie

Thank u very much Charlie, I followed ur steps and it hopefully worked, let me know if your still having trouble seeing them




Devin, The visibility is still perfect, we mocked up the box so you can still see right over it sitting down on the helm chair

Neil, I can see all the images now. Great looking boat. What color are you planning to paint her?

I really like the fiberglass under the gunwales with the storage compartments, did you make those too? I’d also like to extend my engine boxes outboard, similar to FBC model. Not sure sure on design on that yet as the FBC has a bulkhead vs. the Bahia. The space between the engine box and gunwale is wasted and just seems to collect dirt and anything from day’s cruise in the void. Eliminating it and extending the cushions all the way to gunwale would be ideal.

Looking forward to seeing pics of the re-spray.

Neil, thanks for posting all of that. You guys have a great looking boat and have does some great work on her. That is setup very nicely. I really like how much shade the top has fore and aft. That is exactly the kind of upper control I would like to do also, just minimal pipework and very small helm. Another reason I would like to extend the hard top is for getting the upper helm weight back over the engine boxes. I having nothing to base this off of, but intuition tells me it would be more comfortable up there and the boat might like the weight more aft also.

Neil,
Boat looks great!

I am way too short for those displays...but does get me thinking.

Also noticed no risers or crossovers on your motor install...
Are you using surge tubes?


I am still on the fence about making dry risers or using surge tubes.

I have to make up my mind soon.

Hard top. Just messing around looking at dimensions. Still looks pleasing to my eye. Any opinions?

Stock:



Stretched 20"

Just add ac to the refit it fits right under the port v berth bunk,oh and a few vents in the helm area

Congrats and good luck to you with your project,

I own the former Vamos, now named "Bruiser". I completely refitted the boat and have thoroughly enjoyed it. 1 and 1/2 yrs of work was worth it! I'll try to get some pics up.

bbtiller wrote:Congrats and good luck to you with your project,

I own the former Vamos, now named "Bruiser". I completely refitted the boat and have thoroughly enjoyed it. 1 and 1/2 yrs of work was worth it! I'll try to get some pics up.

NO WAY! That blows my mind! I love that you’re on here! My dad’s best friend owned that boat way back in the day. I’m glad to hear she was totally refit. Do you have any pictures of the process you’d care to share here? I have to tell you, that totally made my day! Thank you very much for posting!

Neil

What degree rod holders are in the stern? I was always under the impression anything but 0 degree would stick out of the stern panel.

Kind of a weird setup Carl, the one starboard motor does have a surge tube but the port does not. After the motors it goes right to a 5 inch centubular muffler that allowed us enough room for fishboxes and then 5 inch out the stern. We have spent some very rough nights offshore and backed down pretty good and never had an issue.

And you are correct Tony, they are 0 degree swivel rod holders, the 15 degree ones would not fit with the back panel in place