Not Going To Sugar Coat it, it is what it is.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 23rd, '12, 14:54

Got up this morning and dug in removed the decks and ripped in to her then shot a little video to share of the ugly truth before i head off to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWwKzt- ... e=youtu.be

I'll add some pictures later.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Aug 23rd, '12, 15:08

keith alot of us have been there, your in the right place, wood looks familar

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Aug 23rd, '12, 15:33

yep...that looks about right.

Good thing is the wood bulkheads and stuff are somewhat easily replaced.

My only surprise is the engine beds were not upgraded when they put those motors in....unless I missed something.... and the metalmites that attacked the Rudder.

conchy joe · Post by **conchy joe** » Aug 23rd, '12, 19:45

Oh hell, you make my repower look like a weekend project. I feel for you. Good luck.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Aug 23rd, '12, 20:49

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly..................hang in there, you've made a great start. No sense being in a hurry. The price of diesel will be down in a few years so your timing is perfect!

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 23rd, '12, 21:48

Does this mean i'm not going to be done tomorrow ?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Aug 23rd, '12, 22:58

Keith wrote:Does this mean i'm not going to be done tomorrow ?

Nope Keith....not tomorrow.....and not Saturday either.

From the best I can tell from experience you should be finished in 6 months....(Wink:Wink)....right Pat??? 6 Months....

I only spent 6 months repowering DeNada........another 6 months thinking and planning my workscope and another 4 years and 12 days talking about it......

Don't get hung up on the task at hand......just think about the reward at the end......ENJOY THE JOURNEY! ! !

hb

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Aug 24th, '12, 06:23

Keith,
How long was this boat sitting with water inside the hull, you have your work cut out for yourself and your helpers. The original decks look like they were the balsa cored ones, I think I remember you said you were going to use diamond plate for the decks, if not remove all the old balsa and re-core them with foam core board, use fiberglass channels for deck supports.
If I remember correctly wasn't this boat that one for sale in the New Orleans area after Katrina went through,it had been sunk, I think Uncle Vic knew the old owner. Youv'e got a minimun of 6 months of working everyday. I hope you really knew what you got yourself into before you bought this boat. Save up and get the oversized rudders from Capt Pat. Good luck. Please wear a good mask when working on this boat the mold spores will make you very sick real quick. We don't want to loose a new member right off the bat.
Pete Fallon

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Aug 24th, '12, 06:28

That diamond plate gets very hot in the sun....

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Aug 24th, '12, 06:29

It's going to be a commercial ride with flare...no need for tedious fillets and long board sanding.

Rip it out---almost done...

Change out and Beef up Engine beds, replace bulkheads, new rudder shelf, new jockey bar, support pads for Struts
Mount motors run some electrical and Toss down diamond plate deck, hatches and panels, mount a few hoists and you'll be done in a few days...or a month or so...maybe two...definitely not more then three or four.

As you said " it is what it is "

and look at the brite side...you'll be finished when your done!

Carl

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Aug 24th, '12, 06:30

mike ohlstein wrote:That diamond plate gets very hot in the sun....

White paint...huge difference.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Aug 24th, '12, 06:42

Yup, Harry, a breeze at 6 months... [B^P

Keith,

Inspect the fiberglass very carefully around the bronze shaft tubes for electrolysis damage. Here's a look at what improper bonding can lead to. Look for fiberglass with a white or very pale color. In the case below, the damage was extreme and the resin content was reduced to zero leaving the glass about a strong as burned toast.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:42

CaptPatrick wrote: Keith,

Inspect the fiberglass very carefully around the bronze shaft tubes for electrolysis damage. Here's a look at what improper bonding can lead to. Look for fiberglass with a white or very pale color. In the case below, the damage was extreme and the resin content was reduced to zero leaving the glass about a strong as burned toast.

Wow...just learned something new there..had no idea electrolysis would have any effect on fiberglass.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:44

Pete Fallon wrote:Keith,
How long was this boat sitting with water inside the hull, you have your work cut out for yourself and your helpers. The original decks look like they were the balsa cored ones, I think I remember you said you were going to use diamond plate for the decks, if not remove all the old balsa and re-core them with foam core board, use fiberglass channels for deck supports.
If I remember correctly wasn't this boat that one for sale in the New Orleans area after Katrina went through,it had been sunk, I think Uncle Vic knew the old owner. Youv'e got a minimun of 6 months of working everyday. I hope you really knew what you got yourself into before you bought this boat. Save up and get the oversized rudders from Capt Pat. Good luck. Please wear a good mask when working on this boat the mold spores will make you very sick real quick. We don't want to loose a new member right off the bat.
Pete Fallon

Morning thank you for your support in my project.

Yes i bought it from Browns salvage Denham Springs and was from new Orleans named Wet Rhino.

I saw and knew the boat had hit a piling with relatively minor damage on the starboard side but do not see any signs it sunk and was told it had been moved inland on a trailer before the hurricane ?

I have a job today but am also picking up another chain fall and beams building a new gantry to temporarily support the motors before the one falls it has very little support.

I have concerns about measuring the motor heights and center shaft alignment etc. before moving stabilizing them and checking to see if they have settled.

Would appreciate any help in that area.

I've been building for 35 years every trade residential primary and do all my own boat work and mechanics and designing but have very little experience with the 31-B and understand and appreciate the value of experience.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:45

sim wrote:
Wow...just learned something new there..had no idea electrolysis would have any effect on fiberglass.

Ditto roger that amigo thank you Captain Patrick, i ran out and looked and appears to be OK.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:51

Keith,

Be sure to take an occasional cruise thrugh the Tips Section...

Here's a basic run down on engine installation: http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/engines.htm

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:55

sim wrote:It's going to be a commercial ride with flare...no need for tedious fillets and long board sanding.

Rip it out---almost done...

Change out and Beef up Engine beds, replace bulkheads, new rudder shelf, new jockey bar, support pads for Struts
Mount motors run some electrical and Toss down diamond plate deck, hatches and panels, mount a few hoists and you'll be done in a few days...or a month or so...maybe two...definitely not more then three or four.

As you said " it is what it is "

and look at the brite side...you'll be finished when your done!

Carl

Thank Sim

Please anyone tell me about the rudder bearing removal i put a puller on one yesterday and she laughed at me, maybe some heat ?

Scared to ask what the jockey bars cost and where to purchase ?

I'm thinking building a large beam for the motor supports running them all the way to the hull and build a U shape of 3-1/2" x 24" beam built of two 4 x 14 beams and a smaller beam between the 4x14 beams under the galley doorway.

The idea is to incorporate the hull into the structural integrity and box the beams to create as much strength as possible and not depend on the stringers or the flimsy bulkhead at the rear of the motors just leave the hull flush.

On the smaller motor supports smaller beams to the stringers and contact the hull everything completely glassed in no exceptions.

Not looking for pretty just durability.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 08:56

CaptPatrick wrote:Keith,

Be sure to take an occasional cruise thrugh the Tips Section...

Here's a basic run down on engine installation: http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/engines.htm

Did i say i love you yet today Captain ?

Cabin boy out!

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 09:03

mike ohlstein wrote:That diamond plate gets very hot in the sun....

I hear you Mike and you are absolutely right.

Good thing is nearly every trip in So Cal over 24 hours requires a jacket water off shore is cool for the California current pushing south.

I'll be installing some full height stringer from the hull to the deck for maximum strength with the heavy decks for combined structural integrity to try and prevent a structural failure of the transom davits they will endure some substantial loads when under load in swells.

I ripped the fly bridge loose on the 24' Skip jack and dropped the stern below a swell on a large Mako off the west end of Catalina island at night alone in some weather nearly lost her saw 3" gaps in the bulk heads.

I had to give up the sling on the smaller boat was destroying it and i do not need that with NOAA on my boat.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 09:09

Harry Babb wrote:
Nope Keith....not tomorrow.....and not Saturday either.

From the best I can tell from experience you should be finished in 6 months....(Wink:Wink)....right Pat??? 6 Months....

I only spent 6 months repowering DeNada........another 6 months thinking and planning my workscope and another 4 years and 12 days talking about it......

Don't get hung up on the task at hand......just think about the reward at the end......ENJOY THE JOURNEY! ! !

hb

Thank you Harry i appreciate the advice and moral support i did my best to be as positive as possible yesterday just keep on task making decisions and not dwelling on things worrying about them.

I have to look at the big picture to insure it all works as a unit but then simply set small goals and only focus on them same way i handle larger remodels one day at a time and still have the other boat and it's totally dialed in for a retreat but i'm looking forward to getting the new girl out for a spin.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Aug 24th, '12, 09:20

Keith-
Congratulations and welcome!
If I read your posts correctly you're gonna use the best boat ever built to do Shark Science... cool.
If function (diamond plate, etc.) is the overriding priority then why stay with the current cockpit set-up? I know it is sacrilege but I was thinking that if you put a full height bulkhead across the cockpit aft of the engines and increased the scuppers you would have a fully self-bailing cockpit when at anchor or on the drift. This might be easier on your pumps. While it would make the cabin more like a bunker that too might be appropriate depending what gets loose in the cockpit!
Keep up the great work and thanks for the picts and video.
Stephan

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Aug 24th, '12, 09:21

I'll be installing some full height stringer from the hull to the deck for maximum strength with the heavy decks for combined structural integrity to try and prevent a structural failure of the transom davits they will endure some substantial loads when under load in swells.

I'd advise that you beef up the entire transom, from hull bottom to gunnel, port to starboard.

Do this by first laminating 3/4" H80 Divinycell and then finish it off with 2 layers of 1708 biaxle fiberglass. That will effectively tripple the strength of the transom. See Basic Composite Construction in the Tips Section.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Aug 24th, '12, 10:15

Keith, You've taken on a big challenge, best of luck.

I keep thinking of this crazy idea, don't think it would work but figure I'll do some thinking outloud. I've seen plenty of hydraulic lifts that submerge to launch a dingy and then lift it above the water line. A quick google search pulls up sealift USA, which has a lifting capacity of 1500 lbs. They have a cool animated video of a cradle lift http://www.sealiftusa.com/cradle-lift.html

I wonder if you could modify this concept for your needs?

In my mind I keep thinking those traditional davits must get in the way especially when your trying to fight a fish alone in the dark..One way or another there must be a better way..

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 24th, '12, 10:52

McNichols.com also has the structural fiberglass as does McMaster Carr. You might also check out fiberglass diamond plate instead of aluminum. It won't be so hot and won't corrode..

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Aug 24th, '12, 14:49

Rawleigh wrote:McNichols.com also has the structural fiberglass as does McMaster Carr. You might also check out fiberglass diamond plate instead of aluminum. It won't be so hot and won't corrode..

Annnnd you can bond, laminate, tab, etc to it, as opposed to being limited to fasteners and welds with the al.

Annnnd you can paint it without doing the whole "trying to paint over aluminum oxide" multi-step shuffle... which, even when done correctly, you'll most likely have peeling urethane on that al. sole rather quickly.

Patrick, wouldn't a more dense composite than D.cell be the ticket for that transom? Like Corecell or even one of the less dense Coosa's (BW20?)...
I know the D.cell would fit the the bill fine to just stiffen up the transom, but if he's incorporating davits/lifts which tie into the deck and transom, shouldn't the core have some density to accommodate fasteners, instead of just relying on the biax layup?
But, then again I'm not real sure on how the davits are mounted...

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Aug 24th, '12, 15:05

But, then again I'm not real sure on how the davits are mounted...

Mark,

There are a couple of other suggestions that will come once we all know the configuration of the hardware. Over all, the Divinycell will do, easier to work with and probably less expensive. Where hardware has to attach, Coosa Board blocking could be inserted before the outer skin goes up.

Then too, we could send BobH over there and make a real battle ship out of it. What'cha say Bob, you up to a Left Coast vacation?

Br,

Patrick

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Aug 24th, '12, 18:49

Capt Pat., Im just bringing back some distant memories with this post been right there with Keith about 5 years ago...keep plugging along..build what you envision..look here for help n guidance...Im beefing up my gunnels right now..went from 3/8"..added 1" backer with two layers of 1708 each side plexus'd it to the original underneath, added two more layers of 1708..then 1" teak gunnel plank thanks to Pete Fallon...in the end the new Battleship gunnel will be 2 1/2" thick...that should do...on the other hand I could use a vacation on the left coast...lets get to work Keith...BH

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 24th, '12, 21:36

Hey guys the davits will be mounted to the deck with Douglas fir stringers mounted on the sides and transom and hull with a large beam flat between stringers to S/S lag bolts through the 1/4" aluminum diamond plate.

I'm thinking a stabilizer on the top of the gunnel but using a 4/5 angle back to the deck and stringer for my lateral strength.

The fish will primarly be in the 200#-1000# class breeder salmon sharks and juvenile white sharks.

If i install enough drain holes in the sling it will substantially decrease the water load as i lift and the swells surge especially concerning the salmon sharks they are usually in rough seas.

I'm not comfortable with loading up on the transom or stressing the corners i would like to keep the stress there to a minimum.

A failure during use on the decks will most likely be a non issue safety wise.

I'm not so sure the fiberglass diamond plate will offer the span between stringers like the aluminum will and i like the aluminum i have it on several areas of my 24 skipjack.

I'm OK with fasteners i like the idea of being abble to open the entire deck.

Here's the deck hatches i'm looking at http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/heater-c ... 99642.html

When i lift the sharks up the scuppers will flood the boat and will have a crew at the transom.

i looked at the solid mount lifts but decide against them because of cost and i want to be abble to lift the sharks all the way up to the top of the rail to work on them and weigh them with load cells.

I also want to be abble to remove the davits when not in use and be abble to put the sling on deck during transport.

the other problem with the fixed lift is being in the way during fighting the fish.

Once the fish is tired i hope to hand toss the sling in with it attach to the winches then lead the fish in and raise them.

Really appreciate the brain storming gentlemen 31 heads are better than one.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Aug 24th, '12, 21:54

Keith,

Do you have any pics of similar davit configs, maybe one of your other boats, or diagrams that you've made? I think I'm starting to see some light, just need to crank up the lumens...

Br,

Patrick

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Aug 25th, '12, 17:02

Nice start. Hull looks good and nice motors. The stuff you have to rebuild is more time intensive than money intensive. I like the attitude--keep you busy and kick its ass. looking forward to updates.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 25th, '12, 21:16

CaptPatrick wrote:Keith,

Do you have any pics of similar davit configs, maybe one of your other boats, or diagrams that you've made? I think I'm starting to see some light, just need to crank up the lumens...

Br,

Patrick

Evening Captain Patrick

Wish i could have gotten back to you sooner had to work all day and did some more work on the boat this afternoon, a little every day i'm committed or going to get committed either way most likely the same result insanity.

I winging the design off the seat of my pants just from general experience and what i have to work with looking at the structural integrity no existing plans.
Basically creating support in the opposite directing i'm creating pressure from lifting.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 25th, '12, 21:23

John F. wrote:Nice start. Hull looks good and nice motors. The stuff you have to rebuild is more time intensive than money intensive. I like the attitude--keep you busy and kick its ass. looking forward to updates.

Thanks John really appreciate the encouragement from everyone keeps me going.

Here's this afternoons project, wood gantry assembly and chain hoist to support the motors and clean the trash out then more demolition and buy the beams On Monday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B193vHWNZF4

.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 26th, '12, 13:59

Bob H. wrote:Capt Pat., Im just bringing back some distant memories with this post been right there with Keith about 5 years ago...keep plugging along..build what you envision..look here for help n guidance...Im beefing up my gunnels right now..went from 3/8"..added 1" backer with two layers of 1708 each side plexus'd it to the original underneath, added two more layers of 1708..then 1" teak gunnel plank thanks to Pete Fallon...in the end the new Battleship gunnel will be 2 1/2" thick...that should do...on the other hand I could use a vacation on the left coast...lets get to work Keith...BH

Right on Slave Drivers here i like it Boss er um Boss Bob.

I jumped right in this morning put some jack stands under the trailer frame to support the trailer so it will not move with the motors partially suspended.

removed a lot of wiring and plumbing and used the 5" diamond blade grinder and cut out all the motor support beam brackets and through stringer bolts.

I have been making a lot of videos of the motor height from under the fly bridge and sides of the hull and videoing everything like the height of the motor mounts and what spacers and their size.

I was also abble to save the old supports to use as partial templates for the new beam supports.

I've got it ready to lop all the crap left off with the sawzall to get it ready to grind but i'm going to give the neighbors a break being Sunday then on Monday after work I'll get my wing man from work to use the shop vac while i sawzall and try and keep the fibers to a minimum.

I'm already plugged with them so far so good excepting it pretty well i had some time to mentally prepare for the adventure in hell.

Did some reading up on the tie bar and was impressed with the 3/4" S/S pipe looks like i can buy it at Granger or some where and i have a handheld electric pipe die set to thread it then I'll get the flange welded on.

The pillow bearings are still functioning but look fairly corroded and the set screws are toast so i will have to use the diamond grinder to cut them off or leave them for a later project and not fix something that isn't broke yet ?

Anyone know the name size of them and approximate cost model number etc. ? maybe Granger or ?

If they are inexpensive like i suspect i will most likely replace them to be as safe as possible especially since i already have the deck opened it would be pretty easy to cut them off.

After i spend some time with the family after they get home from Church I'll figure out a lumber list and go shopping later and pick everything up.

that said them little SOB termites are still running around the boat what should i do to kill them and keep them out ?

http://youtu.be/d2JL2_YiaJE

I was looking through this thread today and saw i have missed some of the posters post my apologies I'll try not to let that happen again.

Here's a video i made some time ago of the wireless remote for my 24' skipjack i will be installing in the 31-B anything i should know about that while i'm involved in the steering ? Only thing i believe i will need to do below the deck is install the linear feed back arm ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il0pka-C ... e=youtu.be

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John F. · Post by **John F.** » Aug 26th, '12, 17:26

Take a look at Capt. Patrick's rudders. Easily for me the best improvement I made on my B31. They come in 2 diff't types, so you need to figure out which you need or want to build to before you build. The bearings I replaced with were basic bearings from a local industrial supply place. I kept them in Corrosion-X and 8 or so years later when I sold the boat (stupid, stupid, stupid), they still looked fine.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 27th, '12, 08:27

John F. wrote:Take a look at Capt. Patrick's rudders. Easily for me the best improvement I made on my B31. They come in 2 diff't types, so you need to figure out which you need or want to build to before you build. The bearings I replaced with were basic bearings from a local industrial supply place. I kept them in Corrosion-X and 8 or so years later when I sold the boat (stupid, stupid, stupid), they still looked fine.

Thank you john I'll check in to it have a great week my friend

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 27th, '12, 09:44

Weren't here some fancy corrosion proof bearings that someone used on here??

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 27th, '12, 10:23

Keith: Check out this fiberglass non skid decking.

http://greatwhiteboatco.com/PRODUCTS_STORE.html

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Aug 27th, '12, 18:26

Rawleigh, I went all stainless on my rudder supports and bearings...BH

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Aug 27th, '12, 20:22

Bob-

Really impressive.

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 27th, '12, 23:49

Rawleigh wrote:Keith: Check out this fiberglass non skid decking.

http://greatwhiteboatco.com/PRODUCTS_STORE.html

Rawleigh that's some good looking stuff but i believe i need it in 5'x10' sheets and it does not look like he has it in that size only 4x8 and i'm not sure it will span 3' between stringers like i'm planning on doing unless the 1/4" diamond plate needs additional support I'll add some.

One thing is for sure it's a hell of a lot less expensive than 2, 5'x12' sheets i'm planning on buying are almost $1200.00

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 27th, '12, 23:52

Bob H. wrote:Rawleigh, I went all stainless on my rudder supports and bearings...BH

That's sexy Bob

Where can i find the S/S bearings and dare i ask how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$it's only money and nothing it to good for me 31-B

Keith Poe · Post by **Keith Poe** » Aug 28th, '12, 00:24

Ran around this morning before work and picked up some 304 S/S bar stock and 304 plate to have welded on for the rudder arm rebuild then this afternoon got my costume on early Halloween then cut out all the glass scraps and bulkheads to get everything ready to GRIND going to play Judas Priest british steel Grinder song while grinding lol.

Burnt up the sawzall pushing it to hard trying to get it done ran and grabbed a new one and got it done yeehaw keep the progress rolling another 19 hour day so sore i can hardly move but sleeping like a baby.

Got lucky not an itch anywhere scratch scratch out.

Costume picture and a picture of the project i did at work today to cover 100 gallon water heater and two forced air units and a video of the view looking west over Santa Monica Bay i love living and working along the ocean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5W0aQzc ... e=youtu.be

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Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 28th, '12, 09:24

Dang Bob! That is too pretty to cover up!! Keith, nice suit!!

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Aug 28th, '12, 19:01

Keith, Got bearings from Action bearing in Boston. Lots of handy work got all covered up once the deck went down, good thing I took about 400 pics so far...to help the next eager steward like Mr Poe....stay focused and keep moving...the name will make itself known just at the right time...so will the color scheme..Ive got the name for my ol girl just waiting for the paint..then like the cherry on top..Ill put it on the transom for all to see...prepping for paint now...BH