cost of ownership?

adams · Post by **adams** » Apr 20th, '10, 13:18

What is an approximate cost of ownership of a Bertram 31 per year? I am talking about dockage fees, painting the bottom, average cost to fix misc things, etc. I have only owned smaller trailerable fishing boats. So I am sure there are expenses I have not thought of. I understand every boat will be different, but please just give me an estimate and if you could be so kind break it down for me. I really don't know the TRUE cost to own a boat like this. I live down south so the boat would stay in the water the entire year. Thanks.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Apr 20th, '10, 14:21

adams
iam up here in new york long island
winter lay up $1,100
summer dockage $1,100
insurance $800.00
spring commisioning $500
fuel appox 3,000
miss thru the year appox $1,000
my total $11,500
remmember this is for my area, it could change in ga.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 20th, '10, 14:33

I don't know how to even start because where you live and how much of the work YOU will do plays a big part in how many and how big the checks you write will be. For me in the Northeast, my season's dockage is bout $4300 plus electricity. Since I only have a charger and a fridge, that usually runs about $60 per season. You must have insurance, $1200 or so a year. Now in the Northeast, we haul in Nov/Dec., pressure wash bottom, winterize our engines, water systems, toilets, etc., then shrink wrap our boats. I do most everything except the pressure washing and shrink wrapping, but even so, my bill comes close to $2000. In spring, it's uncover, clean, wax, new zincs, touch up (or repaint) bottom fix what's broken mysteriously over the winter, and launch. Again, somehow it's another $1500. Since you say you will be in the water year round, adjust accordingly. You still SHOULD, haul, check running gear, change zincs and paint your bottom. Here, a set of rudder and shaft zincs now set you back about $100. If you are allowed to paint the bottom yourself, plan on a gallon and a quart at whatever you can buy good bottom paint for where you are. If you can't, the marinas charge $X per foot plus list price for the paint and you can bet on at least a gallon and a half.
Once you are in the water and functional, costs relate more to what you do with the boat. For me, weekly costs usually revolve around fuel, bait, refreshments, food consumed, etc. Then there are the unexpected costs involved with Lady Luck. Figure out your local rates for Mechanics, electronics guys, tackle merchants etc. Nothing gets done in an hour.
It ain't cheap, and it's getting worse, but strangely in comparison with other boats of our size, our boats are simpler, easier to get at, better built, and of course come with Bertram31.com.
I KNOW I have left out a lot, but I am sure my bretheren will chime in.
Walter

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Apr 20th, '10, 15:51

A lot would depend on the condition of the 31 you purchased and how you use it.

An older one not upgraded can be more expensive in up keep vs a recent redo.

Gas engines require more service at regular intervals than diesel but diesel repairs tend to be more expensive.

The most important thing is a local mechanic, service yard that you strike up a relationship with and can trust.

Most boats bottom paint is by the foot. Go to your local yard and get their price sheet for haul, launch, blocking, storage, labor, and those pesky environmental fees.

70 bucks and hour and up is what a good mechanic will cost you depending on area again.

Always, always, always, always, did I mention always leave extra in your budget for unknowns. After all its a boat.

We can teach you to do alot of your own work and save money.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 20th, '10, 15:51

Dockage- 3500
Winter 1100
Electric 100
Insurance-1000

Fuel 500-1500gal of fuel @ your local rate. For me local is $3.50 or so gal

Up keep- 1000 year for little stuff that breaks, tune up, oil change.

1000 year for upgrades and or major-ish breaks. Sometimes it's less others years its more.

Do a small week family trip... add 1500- 2000

Have a mishap with the bottom, floating debris, mechanical issue is a few hundred to a few thousand.

Plus if you entertain it goes up a good deal more...

If your into major upgrades, it will go up more. I used to try and tackle one a year. Wireing...new deck...new canvas..tower etc

I won't add it up cause it gets me weary...

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Apr 20th, '10, 19:33

I used to figure $25K a year to run mine when I was fishing her hard. Now that she's a Howdy Boat and stays at my camp she's a real cheap date. Me & the Bride took her down the Tickfaw last weekend to the world famous Prop Stop (under new and less permissive management, sad to say) for a Worm Bucket and a Swamp Burger. Probably burned 2 or 3 gallons of diesel and spent 20 bucks at the Prop Stop. Had several offers to buy her....the boat, not the Bride......still the best looking boat ever built, same for the Bride.

UV

Joef · Post by **Joef** » Apr 21st, '10, 09:43

I have a 31 North-Coast...in the grand scheme of life and boat ownership, its roughly the same as a B31 in terms of maint. cost...

- Winter storage(U won't have down south) $900
- Summer slip - 3500
- Spring prep (paint, zincs, engine "consumables" for Cat 3208T diesels - 650
- miscellaneous broken stuff that needs fixing each spring. - 500
- Insurance - 1250

Cost of fuel, etc is dependant on how you use it. Canyon fishing is hard on the boat and wallet up here in the NE.

As Bruce said...leave "extra" in the budget. I owned this boat for 7 years. The boat is 20 years old this year. For the first 4 years, the only expenses i had were the ones i listed above. ...BUT - last year...main fuel tank pin-hole leak...$3800. This year, old engine mounts need replacing...$1600. 3yrs ago, needed new eisenglass enclosure...$4000. Friends call it a money pit...but its really just stuff wearing out after 20yrs of service...all things considered - the boat is holding up great.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Apr 21st, '10, 10:41

Its really, really dependent on how you use the boat. The difference between a B31 that used in a Bay for fishing or running to a bar/restaurant (like mine is) and a B31 that is used to run 60+ mile each way to an offshore canyon (like alot of the guys here) and needs to be equipped and maintained so that it is safe to do so in huge--maybe a 10 or 20 fold difference in costs. B31s are rugged, generally pretty simple boats without alot of systems.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Apr 21st, '10, 11:35

The boat that Adams was looking at is Pooka at Whitewater Marine. Mechanically the boat is sound, but honestly could use cosmetic work. SO that will factor into the annual cost of things he will want to fix/change.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Apr 21st, '10, 12:17

I need someone with deep pockets to be a co-owner with me...you really have to love it to justify the kind of dough that it takes to keep things up and running.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Apr 21st, '10, 22:46

john i will go halfzies with you. but can i borrow my half? :)

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Apr 21st, '10, 23:52

Matt,
Sure! Call UV.

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Apr 22nd, '10, 07:16

about $1000.00 per foot a year,,slip-insu,-repair-...really depends on how much you use it also..freshwater /saltwater

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Apr 22nd, '10, 08:54

With everything to fish offshore without fuel cost including raft inspection fix whats broken, oil changes, engine stuff, docks and haul outs, props sent out each year to tune, you will be looking at 15,000.$ to 25,000.$ easy. My bill, or what I have to catch to pay fuel, dock and everything else is 65,000.$. All the fish after that I get the money.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Apr 22nd, '10, 09:33

Sweet ! john when can i start using it? mine is still out of comission.

adams · Post by **adams** » Apr 23rd, '10, 05:16

Thanks for all the responses. They boat will only probably be used about 4 times a month at the most, all saltwater. Whatever boat I buy I will run as is. I don't plan on spending to much money in upgrading it. Fxing things that break will be a different matter. After doing some research on here, and knowing how I am, I will run the boat as is and figure out what I like and don't like and then go find the perfect boat. A lot cheaper that way! Again thanks fellas.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Apr 23rd, '10, 05:40

go find the perfect boat

You'd have a much better chance of finding the elusive unicorn or bigfoot.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 23rd, '10, 08:51

Bruce wrote: You'd have a much better chance of finding the elusive unicorn or bigfoot.

perfect answer bruce!

adams · Post by **adams** » Apr 29th, '10, 17:23

Bruce....you got me. Find the boat I really want (diesel).

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 29th, '10, 20:40

Adams

If you want a 31 go over to the swap & sell board. Don't know much about her but Geux Deep is up for sale as well as another. Just need to decide on the style you want and how much you want to spend.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 29th, '10, 21:01

my numbers are quite differant 100.00 dollars for complete filters& oil .$4650.00 for dockage 1000.00 for wine,beer.liquid . 4000.00 inside heated winter storage with compresed air,lights,electricity.and few thousand for fuel. ice, bait , coffee, and quite a few guys to give you a hand are free.

adams · Post by **adams** » May 1st, '10, 04:43

Tony...I have been over there before. Just nothing for me as of now. Thanks though!

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » May 1st, '10, 10:42

I know you asked your question seriously, and the above answers are all valid, but you really have to consider your personal factors.. the usage the boat will see, where you live, how handy you are personally doing maintenance and repairs, local storage costs summer and winter, your personal finances and what condition you choose to keep the boat. You also have to consider if your wife is now and will remain, supportive of your family owning a boat.

Before I bought "Phoenix", a project boat to be sure, I estimated the cost and time I would need to get her into the shape I wanted. I am probably three times over on each, and I still have a lot to do. My personal position is that I am as much as I can be a hands on guy and I am comfortable doing most repairs, woodwork, wiring, painting and varnishing, etc, etc. I also have all the tools I need to do these things. I am not going to rip an engine apart, but I have removed all the Formica covered cabinetry in the main cabin and am replacing it with new teak veneer and solid teak trim. I also have built all new galley cabinetry, using solid teak and teak veneer, a long winter project. I am also semi retired and very much enjoy working on her. We all are unique.

I hesitate to tell you this, but at the expense of scaring you out of your desire to own a boat, I submit a comment supposedly offered by Sir Thomas Lipton (of the tea fame, and a well renowned yachtsman in his day), when he was asked how much a boat cost.. his answer...

"If you have to ask... You can't afford it!"

adams · Post by **adams** » May 1st, '10, 16:02

I appreciate the advice. I have never owned a boat like this so I am not sure what costs are involved and prices hence the question. Fortunately for me I can afford it. But again I thank you for the point.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » May 1st, '10, 16:10

any boat will depend on if you are a check writer or a do it your self guy

And sometimes you have to let a yard do things you can do yourself to stay on their good side, a larger marina does not want you there JUST for dockage, they want to get some service out of you. Give them some business and if you have to get hauled on a Friday afternoon so that you can do a quick repair or something along those lines your boat will be back in the water for the weekend.

I get people wandering in the yard and always ask "how much to re-do a boat like this", I tell them no less then $100k by the time they do cosmetics, rail, deck, bulkheads, fuel tank, rebuild motors, transmissions, wiring, canvas, etc and so forth................ never mind a diesel conversion!

randall · Post by **randall** » May 1st, '10, 16:23

i left a yard once and the owner told me he was glad to see me go. i quote......"i dont want some guy that pulls his own engine and puts it back in........i want a guy that gives me his credit card number in april and says do what it takes". havent been in a private marina since......and it was number 5 or 6.

adams · Post by **adams** » May 1st, '10, 16:25

Raybo...thank you for the advice. I have a good relationship with a marina now. I plan to do as much of the work I can myself, but I understand the point of giving them some work. Everyone wants to keep a good customer happy right? Thanks.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 1st, '10, 16:26

thats the spirt robbie and when the blow boater come to the main office to rent a slip the girls politely sent them to another marina.this year they moves quite a few poles to have less boats but bigger these guys seem to dig deep to have someone like robbie or our mechanics make every thing nats ass perfect .not to be one sided but the blowboaters usually are tree huggers and very money concerned.the boss gives free bar ba-q and replenish the gas bottles .then they come at night to put fuel in there engines to save a couple of bucks like how much can a sail boat burn?

scot · Post by **scot** » May 1st, '10, 17:12

I have always noticed that the blow boaters curiously have no money to spend on their boats. I think it has to do with the mind set of someone that wants the wind to give them a free ride. Or, maybe it is because their deck hardware is SO expensive they have no money left?

At the last marina I was in, the boats that were chained & pad locked for non-payment on their slips, were ALL sail boats. And most of the blow boats had a complete ecosystem growing off their bottom. I don't think they ever do bottom jobs on most of those things. 6"-7" of growth is not uncommon on a lot of those boats. I never actually say one leave the dock.

One of them watched me getting ready to go fishing and said "are you going out?.... well be careful out there" She was complete amazed that someone would actually take a boat out of the marina. Her boat got the pad lock a couple of weeks later.

randall · Post by **randall** » May 1st, '10, 18:02

um...before you guys get to carried away i've sailed plenty and know plenty of sailors that not only do an excellent job of taking care of their boats (and paying for it) but have taken them where no bertram is ever going to go....like to hawaii and tahiti. or caribbean in the winter and here in the summer with the mediterranean in the middle.

this always reminds me of the friction between powder skiers and bump skiers...................till snowboards came along.

its as simple as this....if you can play with it on or in the water....i like it.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » May 2nd, '10, 17:40

Randall-

I also know of some really fanatical sail boat owners, go on the north shore to some nice yards and you will see big dollar sailboats.

I dont think that yards that cater to these sailboats have anything to complain about, plenty of brightwork, mast, and other refinishing to take the place of risers and manifolds.

Im also going to add that I am a landlocked "boat yard", so I could care less who hauls, paints, sells you fuel, bait, etc. but I do TALK to alot of yards and yard owners and like any business you tend to take remember those who remember you and maybe go the extra mile for that person

randall · Post by **randall** » May 2nd, '10, 18:51

the marina business is like any business. even my business. i go the extra mile for the people who take care of me.

bertram31.com

cost of ownership?

cost of ownership?

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