If you were starting a project 31 today...

davidms · Post by **davidms** » Jan 15th, '08, 20:41

Just for the yucks, I searched Yacht World for 31s. 65 Bertram 31s are currently for sale in the US. Obviously, that only includes the ones advertised on the website. What interested me more were the prices. Some boats were already refit and the prices reflected that. And a couple were, what I thought was, fairly inexpensive assuming that the buyer would have to redo the boat. My question to the panel of experts is, what is a realistic price to pay for a boat that will be completely redone?

DavidS

nic · Post by **nic** » Jan 15th, '08, 21:15

Not claiming to be on the panel...

Quote..."Some boats were already refit and the prices reflected that"

From my own experience the prices of refit boats rarely reflects the cost of the refit, they offer some of the best buying around. In buying a 31 in order to refit it I don't think it makes much difference whether you get it $10k or $20k cheaper, that's gonna be small(ish) change by the time you finish.

Nic

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 15th, '08, 21:16

Define "completely." I have saved every receipt and plan to add them up at the end. Is that brave or what? For me, "completely" meant stripping everything out of the boat and starting over with a bare hull. Is that also brave or just insane? Let you know next summer if I survive the shock . . . and the job.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 15th, '08, 23:08

What I did was buy an operable 31 and take it an area at a time. Allows you to enjoy and learn the boat, and controls the expenditures so you can keep your wife. With me, I had gassers. When they were ready to be changed, I converted to diesels over the winter season. Teak decks, hydraulic steering another winter. Hull and topsides painting, another winter. I've had the boat for thirty years now and have not missed one season of summer use. I don't want to know what I've spent over those 30 years, but I do know I couldn't afford to buy ANY new 31 sportsfisherman today. Mine still turns heads 44 years after it was new. Walter

scot · Post by **scot** » Jan 15th, '08, 23:50

Don't do it Mikey, pitch all those receipts in the trash....except the ones that include warranty. It will depress you and make you question your sanity for not just buying someones elses master piece at half the price.

I did this on my last major re-do and will not do it again. I would rather guess and be only half nuts.

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 16th, '08, 09:28

i've taken walters approach....with cars they call it a rolling resto.....pick away at it every spring but havent missed a season in the water

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 16th, '08, 10:03

Scot,
Sanity is for folks with nothing else.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 16th, '08, 10:55

Like I have always said

Its absolutely amazing at what you can do with an old boat and a hundred thousand dollars.

I once took a 1969 Corvair.........spent about $5000.00 "FIXIN ER UP" and when I was "Done wither" she was worth almost a thousand dollars.

Bertrams are a different story...............If you simply LOVE the boat and are "Process Oriented" go for it and forget the money. (within reason)

But if you just LIKE 31's and are "Results Oriented"......better buy someone elses master piece.

Harry

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Jan 16th, '08, 11:11

The least costly way is to buy one re-done, but then one accepts what the prior owner selected in the re-do.

Want it exactly your way, start from scratch.

Want to fish or use the boat in the next 18 months or more, buy it done.

Then, there is the fun of working with boatyards. Whole nother "challenge" shall I say.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jan 16th, '08, 12:08

Hyena,

You hit it right on the head.

The boat yard relationship management is something I have grown to despise.

It is such a pain in the ass, and always seems to degrade to the petty, with the customer being the one to bend.

Perfect example. During my strut repairs last year (where by the way I was never right) there were numerous items I was billed for where I was neither consulted or given input on. They swore purple that they always review every invoice.

This year I recieved my winter storage bill, paid in full up front. I was shrink wrapped. I paid the bill in full, with my credit card.

Thursday of last week I recieved a bill for $0.01.

Ya, sure you review the invoices. I have half a mind to tape a penny to the invoice, and tape it the office door.

But that would be being petty. So I rise above it. I think I will let it accrue interest at the 30% rate. See how long it takes to get to $0.05, or at least the cost of the stamp...

Dug

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 16th, '08, 12:10

hay harry....had a 1969 turbo convert corvair....ten years ahead of its time and faster than a 250 auto vette (proved in the real world over and over)..........blew up transaxles all the time but i was 18

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Jan 16th, '08, 13:31

Don't worry Dug. Next invoice will be the $.01 plus the postage. Even if you pay that, the following month, you will be billed for the postage on sending you the $.01 plus the postage invoice. And so on.

Cut it off at the pass by sending them a check for $.01 plus postage times two. Then, begin demanding monthly statements of account so you can verify the credit balance of your account.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 16th, '08, 15:48

I had my 16 ft Carolina skiff bottom powewashed after a season in the water. I was told it would be $3.75 per foot. They charged me for a short haul and a charge of $15 for "oil". When I questioned what the "oil" charge was, I was told there was a $15 shop charge on anything that gets done there- the computer calls it "oil". It's on every bill for everyone. Twenty years ago I left the marina I had been in for 10 years over an unjustified $15 bill, just on the principal of the thing. Nothing has changed, nor will it ever. Walter

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 16th, '08, 15:54

I think the approach to a B31 falls into one of three broad categories: total project that's out of the water until redone (see Mikey), totally redone boat (see SeaNile, Buddy Boy, Fighting Angel), or a B31 that works and you can use that'll need work over the years (see Walter K's post and my B31--Anna E.).

The faithful are right--its cheaper to buy a redone B31 than to do a total restoration yourself. I've seen SeaNile and Fighting Angel, and they'd both be fine with me. I've been picking a project every winter for my B31, and using her every summer. The money is less upfront, and I pay as I go, so I own the boat (I couldn't have done that if I had bought a redone boat for $100K+). Up to you, but if you're getting a project, go real cheap. There are alot of great deals out there.

Oh yeah--and I love my boatyard--they let me do anything. Its a real boatyard, not a "yachtyard" or "boating resort."

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Jan 16th, '08, 16:53

When I bought my 83 B28, she had low hour engines, gears, shafts and props, but she needed some work above deck. I'd work on a single project until it was complete, but I was also using the boat. That was almost 3 years ago and now I've run out of projects except for the usual maintenance. The only think I have left is put a hardtop on her. She runs like a champ and looks sharp and I don't think I had it out of commission for more than 10 days at any one time. It was a lot less money than starting from scratch and I still had things my way pretty much.

Dick

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 17th, '08, 01:29

Mikey,
better sit down when you figure out the final total! It's all worth it, but, damn. those little things add up.

bertram31.com

If you were starting a project 31 today...

If you were starting a project 31 today...

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