Need help with Helm Pump from Hell

[Sean B]

This one has me stumped, please help.

After leaving town for two weeks I came home to find the helm pump leaking oil from the shaft. Need a new pump, or to rebuild the existing one. Seemed easy enough.
Problem is, I can’t get the offending pump out.

Instead of trying to type a paragraph I drew a (bad) picture, and have some factory diagrams too. We’re talking about a Hynautic H-50 pump, on a B33, which is set up very similiar to a B28:







I removed the steering wheel and the four cap nuts, and then the trim ring. Everything I can find tells me that the helm should drop away behind the helm now, but the damn thing won’t budge. I put the cap nuts back on a few turns and hammered on them – doesn’t move. I put the steering wheel nut back on a few turns and hammered on that, same result.

I thought there might be some screws hidden behind the gauge panel, through the plywood backer and into the pump body. So I pulled the whole gauge panel, but no hidden screws. Then I hammered on everything some more, including my pride and my thumbs. The damn thing won’t move.

I removed the threaded studs from the backside in case those Cubans glassed some nuts into the plywood backer. No mystery nuts. I hammered some more. It doesn’t budge, AT ALL.

There is no hint of any 5200 seen from the backside of the pump. I suppose its possible it was set into some epoxy against the plywood, which I would not be able to detect. But this boat is an ’87 and I think I’m the first steward try to remove it. I wouldn't think that they would bed it into epoxy at the factory but who knows...

I feel like I’m missing part of the plot here. Anybody know what it is?

[Bruce]

Sean,
Your on the right track. The 4 stud/nuts are what hold the helm in place.

I have run into 5200 used between the helm and wood spacing plate and the dash.

If this is the case it could be a job getting out.

Try and find an old wheel and put back on the shaft and rock back and forth from side to side. This way if you bend the spokes, you won't have to replace your good wheel.

If that don't work you will have to try some wedges beteen the wood and helm or wood and dash. 5200 or the such works best with shear force. Drive the wedges part way in and let sit, driving them further till it either prys away or leaves a space so that you can used a knife or hacksaw blade to cut sealant.

[Harry Babb]

Sean
I had a similar experience while trying to remove the single lever control on my old Chaparell. As it turned out for me, corrosion had accumulated between the dresser ring and the neck on the control box and had the whole thing bound up.

Since you were able to remove the threaded studs consider this.........if you have the space you can bridge across backside of the helm pump using 2x4's (or aluminum or steel if available) and blocks on each end creating a platform to pull from. Then drill thru the bridge so that you can get threaded rod to screw into the threaded mounting holes in the pump housing. Put nuts and flat washers on the threaded rods and gently tighten them equally aganist the bridge to extract the pump from the backside of the panel.

And as usual give it a good dose of CX.

(Another CX story..............A friend of mine asked if I could/would remove a rather large nut from the exhaust manifold {where the air injector screws in} on his old Isuzu Trooper. I heated the manifold with an acetelyne torch, like I have done in the past and the stupid nut did not even budge. After it cooled down to a temprature that was safe I gave it a good shot of CX and walked away. Several hours later I came back and guess what............with a wrench, right away and without more heat, I was able to feel a slight movement of the nut.........I kept working it and within just a few minutes it came right out and surprisingly the threads were still good)

Harry Babb

[In Memory of Vicroy]

Shoot it with some Anti-Bond 2015 - it will dissolve cured 5200. Worst Marine usually has it.

UV

[Sean B]

Thanks guys.

In case there is 5200 in there I already shot it several times yesterday with some of the anti-bond, which has become a standard carry-on item for us.

By the way, the Anti-Bond stuff also takes oil stains (in this case, steering system oil stains) out of gelcoat like nothing else I've ever tried.

Going to try to locate an old steering wheel to try Bruce's method to pry it loose that way, and in the meantime the Anti-Bond gets a chance to soak in.

The steering oil dribbling out of the helm seal is black now, not red, which according to my research indicates rusting of the helm pump innards. So I've apparently got moisture in my steering system.

Found a good description of how to thoroughly clean the steering system at these guys' very informative website:
Southern Charm's Website which I also copied below. Forecast calls for many more hours/days of fun with steering system components for me.

Thanks again for advice


Cleaning your system internally. Major Service.
Boat steering is one of the most ignored parts of a boat, probably because it is one of the most dependable systems on the boat and seldom creates any problems. One of the things that I recommend to any boat owner is that they clean the entire system anytime the hydraulic lines must be opened.

Usually the only time the hydraulic steering system should be opened is to repair a leak,or if you are going to do a scheduled service on the autopilot or other parts of your steering gear. Northern climates with freezing weather can cause steering system breeches that necessitate repairs frequently if you do not maintain your system properly. Don't forget, water freezes, expands, and breaks things. There should be NO water in your steering system. It can get there from condensation caused by temperature changes, or leaky seals or fittings on the top of the reservoir, or just magically appear even though you don't know where it came from. And those of us in warmer climes are just as prone to condensation as northerners.

As soon as you determine that you have a steering problem and the system is going to be opened either by you or a mechanic, budget and plan to clean the entire system.

If you plan to do it yourself, here is one recommended way(you could also print this and give it to your mechanic):

Get some oil absorbant rags

Get a bucket or other plastic container that will hold the amount of oil that you are going to drain.

Get an air compressor with a small tip to blow out the lines

Get all the proper size wrenches that you will need

Get enough of the manufacturer's recommended new fluid to fill your entire system (you MUST NOT reuse the old oil that you remove)

If you have a 3 line system with a reservoir, relieve the pressure in the reservoir by loosening one of the fittings on the top.

Starting at the lowest point in the system, remove the Hydraulic lines (usually the cylinder on small boats, on 3 line systems, start at the reservoir) Make sure you mark the lines as you take them off so you will know where to put them when putting it back together.

Put the ends of these lines in the bucket and cover it with a rag to catch the spray(it helps to have someone with you to hold them in the bucket when you start blowing them out)

Detach the other ends of these lines (marking them as well) and blow them out with the air compressor.

If you have a reservoir (3 line system), remove the reservoir at this time and empty the fluid.

While the lines are off the steering cylinder, you can move the rudder or engine by hand, holding an oil absorbent rag over the line fittings and get most of the oil out of the cylinder.

If ANY of the oil that you removed looks discolored(clear, pink, or red is usually OK) you may have a problem with rust somewhere in the system (usually the helm is the cause of rust)

At this point, if the oil is discolored or muddy looking, you should have your helm and cylinder serviced by a qualified shop.

While your unit is out being serviced, the rest of the system, hoses and reservoir, should be thoroughly flushed with mineral spirits and blown dry. You can use a turkey baster to pour mineral spirits through the hoses and the reservoir should have mineral spirits added, shaken around and poured out.

WARNING! Do not try to take the parts of the pressure relief valve out!

Once all your lines and parts are cleaned, put the system back together, refill with fluid(read the owner's manual) and purge the system(read the owner's manual)