Next phase about to start

[Tavis]

Update for you guys....

Our project has been stalled for a bit as our decks from Glas-Tech have been delayed due to COVID... But honestly, I have been so busy with work that I am not sure I could used the decks if they were ready.

We are expecting the decks in a week or two, I have hired an awesome multi talented fiberglass whisperer here in Key Largo that will be installing our decks, and rebuilding engine boxes I bought off another amazing member here (Vince).

Ashley and I spent the day pulling the remaining items from the boat (exhaust and rotten rudder shelf) getting ready for glass. In the process of pulling the onion layers back, I noticed that my dripless shafts bellows were cracking, and probably not very safe to run offshore... I also made the determination after doing so archive reading here that I was going to upsize my exhaust since it was shot (Carl your post to go to a 5" exhaust made my mind up).

Can you guys give me your opinion on if my idea is good before I push order?? Plan is to enlarge current 4" holes and glass in 5" Centek tubes, connected to a 5" Centek surge chamber, connected to a 3.5 to 5" Centek reducer, connected to my wet 6BT's wet exhaust mixer via hose. I am going to skip the mufflers and go straight pipe. Should I consider a thru hull with a flapper (not in stock right now), or will I be ok just glassing in the 5" tube?? I do not want to reroute the exhaust and really don't need the storage in the shaft alleys, I just need to get out on the water now, the mahi are running here in the keys!!!!

Pics follow from today:

[Ironworker]

I don't have a flapper on my exhaust but some of the experts can speak to it better than me.

One thing that I did want to mention is your rudder board replacement.

I had mine replaced and it was a beautiful job but Jim Earley's on EarleyBird is the best rudder installation I've seen on a B31. You can actually get into the bilge.

I have pictures of both. I don't know how to upload them inline as you did in your post but I'll try.

[Ironworker]

Here are the Rudder Board photos







Please tell me how I can have them post in the message box.

[Yannis]

Tavis,

I don't know exactly what you mean by “I want to get in the water now”, but those pics show a hell of a workload before that can happen.
I wish you good luck!

[Tavis]

I don't have a flapper on my exhaust but some of the experts can speak to it better than me.

One thing that I did want to mention is your rudder board replacement.

I had mine replaced and it was a beautiful job but Jim Earley's on EarleyBird is the best rudder installation I've seen on a B31. You can actually get into the bilge.

I have pictures of both. I don't know how to upload them inline as you did in your post but I'll try.

Thanks! I have been looking at pics of some pretty great rudder board installs. The rudder board I took out was all rotten. The last owner had cut the center section out and moved the hydraulics to the stringer... It was crazy, the tie bar would come in contact with the piston when turning to the locks...

To post pictures in the body of a message I use Imgur.com. I upload the images (they call it a post), then within the images of the post I select the three dots in the top right corner of the image, select, "get shared links." That will get you a window that says share options, select the "copy link" button for the one that says, BBCode. Just past that in the body of your post and that will show images. It is really not as complicated as it sounds, but took me awhile to figure out... I will try and post some step by step pics in a separate post today.

[Tavis]

Tavis,

I don't know exactly what you mean by “I want to get in the water now”, but those pics show a hell of a workload before that can happen.
I wish you good luck!

Speaking metaphorically, the mahi are running and it is great motivation to get my ass in gear. I am actually still aiming on about 4-6 weeks from now to slash if I can get the parts on time. My decks should arrive next week, I have a glass guy ready to go and I am installing an extremely simple electrical system... We shall see, I think my biggest delay is going to be getting some of the exhaust parts that I need... Most places are saying 8-12 weeks order time....

[Snipe]

I followed Capt Pats shelf some what. Two pieces of 3/4” coosa laminated together with three layers of 1708 glassed right into the stern and stringers.

[Ironworker]

Tavis,

Thanks for the instructions. I'll practice it. I use dropbox and for some reason, I still haven't figured it out. In the meantime just click on this link

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5v7ec4rr1qz8 ... YKAta?dl=0

Jim maybe able to provide some additional guidance as to how he made his work. It looks like its a different cylinder than mine. I should have spent more time looking and photographing his rudder board installation.

My rudder board will never rot and will outlast the boat but still its oversized and restricts access to my bilge pumps. I have two bilge pumps in the Stern. One is primary and the secondary pump is a couple of inches higher than the primary pump. the high water alarm is set at about the height of the secondary pump.

[Carl]

Travis,

If your looking for 5" Flappers, I think you'll be looking for a long time. I bought 6", then cut an inch off the bottom and clamped on.
Do you need them, I have been told no. Do they help...some say yes, other say no. Me...I know they don't hurt, seems like an obvious way to keep waves from entering and I like the way they look.

Surge tubes...same as above, some say they work other say not really. I put it down as it can't hurt and the angle makes it easier to route exhaust.

I bought a full length of 5" fiberglass tube for less then the cost of one surge tube. From it I made two surge tubes and two 3-1/2-5" reducers that I glassed into the surge tubes.


So your elbows are 3-1/2" too?? All the information I have found show the 3-1/2"elbows were only used on the older 4bt's and the 6bt's were larger. I had thought the prior owners just put these on as maybe they found them cheap...although they are more expensive then the larger ones.

Anyway, right wrong or indifferent I just made a riser from 3-1/2" tube with a 5" shower head to let motors breathe easier and to give me more distance from waterline to turbo outlet.

Last thing I want is sea water making it's way to the motors. I might be more paranoid as I really lowered my motors down a lot.



As to your thoughts for the exhaust...it sound like a good idea what your doing. I thought about glossing the glass tube in...but then I'd have to paint the area and that's a whole other project I didn't have time for. So it was buy transom flanges...that I had to modify to fit.

Tom ran straight 4" hose, no mufflers. He sent me a video clip of motors when trolling...I know that sound would get old real quick and went with mufflers. Could always be done down the road if noise bothers you.

[scenarioL113]

Seems like the safest exhaust is the "over the top" design that Tony Athens has been pushing for years. I know Bob did it on Phoenix as well.
Conchy-Joe on this board did it on his B28 w/ 4BTs also.
Conchy fabricated it entirely himself, he had sent me a bunch of pics (we have the same boat and engines). He did it in stainless steel (I think). It was very impressive and he is not a welder by trade.

The nice thing about the over the top design is that you end up using a straight mixing adapter instead of an elbow. That saves $$$ in the cost of materials. Conchy made the mixing adapter himself also.

I am goin to do this next winter (just not enough time rt now and too many other spring projects for the boat b4 I launch)

@Carl I dont know what exhaust design you have but in my case I am straight out the cummins wet elbow downward and out the back. I believe my height above the waterline is about 12-14 inches (measured from the elboy to waterline). I have rubber flappers and have not had a problem. I pulled my turbo the other day and the wet-side did not look too bad regarding saltwater intrusion. I would say there was none. Either way I will modify my exhaust to up and over. I have a B28 and is totally different than a B31. My engines sit higher in the hull by design than in a 31 (I think) so this is prob apples/oranges. Just passing info along

You can also use exhaust wrap and put a few layers to keep the heat from melting you hatch covers. You do not have to get an expensive exhaust blanket unless you want to and $$$ is no object.

I would say that if you are monitoring EGT's you have nothing to worry about.

[bob lico]

ill bite why would you possibly use flappers on the exhaust!!!!!! i posted the correct method six times at least now i ask myself why bother.

miny max muffler ,mine max muffler, MINI MAX MUFFLER

[Snipe]

Here is the mini max inside baffles.

[Carl]

Many ways to skin a cat Bob and as long as it works as its supposed to, I'd say each are correct.

Mini Max muffler has a fair sound rating at $350 each
Veratones are $400 each with a better rating...but they are big.
Both will help deaden sound while providing baffles to slow water from finding its way into motors.

Flappers are $32 for a pair.
With motors off and Flap down, they do stop direct waves to the transom from going into the exhaust.

Surge tubes. Beats me, haven't seen or tested myself, but other than taking up space I do not see a downside to having them.

Risers...tried and true as it puts more vertical distance between waterline and motor.



Back to your why use Flappers...$32 is very cheap insurance for a set of Flappers. Plus I'm easily amused watching them flapping at idle.

[scenarioL113]

Back to your why use Flappers...$32 is very cheap insurance for a set of Flappers. Plus I'm easily amused watching them flapping at idle.

I was gonna say the same thing....lmao the sputtering and splattering is cool to watch

[bob lico]

i did my very best to try to slug my cummins engine in front of 20 brothers at Bertram rendezvous. WOT. in reverse than port engine off full astern then starboard off full astern what more can i do to convince the board to STOP saying ridiculous statement like SURGE-TUBES totally he sad she sad type statement . use mini -max mufflers and forget slugging a $50,000 engine or jerk yourself off with a huge torpedo five foot long with no surge protection and more expensive ,year i`ll bite like i said. you can lead a horse to water but them you have to stick his face in it sometimes!!! PHOENIX back pressure both port and starboard 0 ,cummins representative could not believe there eyes

[Tony Meola]

My exhaust is still running down the shaft alley, still using the original 5 inch Veritones. We did not put in Surge tubes. In since 2010 and no problems with any water intrusion.

[bob lico]

tony your exhaust are not "up and over the top" you do stand a chance of slugging the motors with a fast backdown in the ocean.you are using the factory sprinkler head tilted down and exhaust down the shaft alley thru muffler instead of up and over to along the outside hull leaving shaft alley open . i am saying up and over than mini max and no chance of slugging .

[Carl]

Curious as to why the Mini-max, which is based on the 5' torpedo Veretone is better at Surge Protection then the Veretone Centech manufactures and sells ....but don't mention in their ads.

Hmmm...makes me wonder why Centek sells a Surge Tube when their Mini- max is superior at Surge protection.



Up and over is the only way!
Want to share a picture of the Starboard motors up and OVER? ...maybe up and back down like a Riser is ok too.


ZERO is I mighty low number. Maybe low or negligible I could understand. Zero makes me think the gauge wasn't a low pressure gauge capable or correctly reading low pressures. Can an air pump (aka - motor) worth its sole not generate at least SOME backpressure on a multi- foot run?



I'm not arguing your setup is not fantastic or better than most...just saying it can be adjusted and worked to fit other people's needs and wants.

Me... I love up and over. I planned on it till I was working on motor and realized I would not be able to fit on the side of the motor as easily IF I had to go around an exhaust pipe. Then if a riser on the Starboard works good...a riser on the port would be just as good. Less scavenging...but Sh$t happens, a few % on 210's isn't worth it. I'll take the space.

Veretone s are quieter then Mini- max and not on perpetual backorder... Big and under deck...who cares.


Surge tubes...do they hurt anything? No extra cost and hidden away...yup put them in too. Am I relying on them...nope, but going with can't hurt.

Flappers....look great and amusing for $32 buck for the set. Do they help...maybe at times. Definitely amusing and do stop the occasional wave. Cheap insurance and a show to amuse.


Boats are a compromise, no one fits all

[bob lico]

sorry carl totally incorect statement!!!!!!!the surge tubes take up the very most important apace on a 31 Bertram adjacent to the outside of the starboard engine and outside of the port engine Exactly were you need acmes to stater motor on starboard and removal of raw water pump, fuel filter and most of all generator on port and holding tank on starboard. the mini max (not the reject show in the photo has a large cone in the entrance to "'train the wet exhaust" i have a "shaped hot exhaust" that takes advantage of scavenging effect of hot to cold and not for me to explain on this forum.but MOST important the sprinkler head is in the exact vertical position so raw water cools the exhaust 360 degrees around not the lame bad engineering factory 90 degree sprinkler when mounted creating a 180 degree hot spot and if i did not hit the high notes lets talk basic needs . up and over creates a impossible situation for slugging a engine but it also puts the exhaust alongside to hull between the outside stringer and the hull creating a empty 22" by 8' opening in the shaft alley for 6' fish boxes or a huge area for storage considering 22' x 8' twice that every boater could utilize even if you put beach umbrellas in two 400 pound tunas in insulated fish boxes or 20 sea bass from a offshore wreck. sorry carl i will not consider you post as viable argument for one second,

[Carl]

Surge tubes fit right next to the shaft logs...useless space.

Outboard of shaft ally would need have deck raised to fit Mini-max...On my boat, low deck.

Generator has been left at the generator store.

Holding tank sits right under the porta potti sitting in the head.

Racors sit on bulkhead, outboard of motors.

Riser comes out of turbo, up several inches and back down with oversized shower head pointing straight down.


Fish boxs...I catch'em n let em go.


Outside of motors fits boarding ladder, bait box, gaff, fenders. Or remove it all and room for me to work.



Compromise to make boat work for our needs.

[Snipe]

Carl this is the mini max 6in muffler down the out side wit 6 in exhaust all the way back I cut the fiberglass exhaust tube glassed it into the stern then put exhaust hose between the muffler and the transom.

[Snipe]

Carl this is the mini max 6in muffler down the out side wit 6 in exhaust all the way back I cut the fiberglass exhaust tube glassed it into the stern then put exhaust hose between the muffler and the transom. I agree there are many ways to skin a cat you set the boat up the way it best fits your needs. I plan to keep the boat as simple as possible.

[Carl]

Jason,
I am familiar with what others have done. I could have...still can go that route, but I'd need to raise my deck to make it fit.
The 62 Express has a lower deck. Raising the deck does not bother me..actually would be a benefit to raise it and the scuppers which are too low for my liking. But that also means raising the back support. A pain, as I glassed it in good when I changed deck from old plywood panel to glasstech. Still doable.

So raise deck, pull back support and reglass higher, cut in new exhaust ports, glass old ones, glass up the scuppers, open new scuppers, modify balance of deck supports, bulkhead and motors boxs for the higher deck. Side and back panels need to be shortened. Raising the motor boxs means I need to lower the pedestals for the helm chairs as I have them set for max height without hitting my head on tower. I also set my tower to clear my head at 5'8". I know people 6' do have issues hitting their head on tower when standing on motor box standing at the helm...now I'd be down to 5' - 9-10" or so clearance.
Then with all the transom glassing I'd need to paint the transom. Try to match 30 year old awlgrip...I guess even a roll and tip would be better then what I have now and my goal is to eventually paint....

But seems like way more work to fit a Mini-Max over a quieter Veratone and for what advantage?? Kill boxs? Yes storage maybe would help. But with nothing outboard motors I have storage there which I'd lose stuffing exhaust there. And it's a pleasure just walking or lying outboard the motor to work on motors. I saw that when changing impellor...lots of open room with easy access.

[bob lico]

absolutely perfect snipe a well through out perfect job.look at that huge space created in shaft alley nice photos and in this instants a picture worth a thousand words . when your install the Mini MAX all the way forward just behind your new engine bulkhead you DON`T raise the deck at all ,Captain Patrick could not believe this and jump on my boat at the first rendezvous just as i pull in, didn't`t even know who he was opening the forward hatch,'damm 6" mini max he wasn't`t kidding! i also created the first belly band like snipe illustrated to support deck at far edges of deck it also stiffens up the hull big time especially at hight speeds in the ocean. again great job Snipe the only way to skin a cat. when you do splash the boat and pull the tiny bolt out of the turbo be very carefull . Check back pressure at that point with cummins representatives you will find there would be a .5 differents in back pressure between the 5' torpedo muffler and the mini max.a win ,win factor very seldom achieved in the mechanical world.

[Snipe]

Thanks Bob! The nice thing about this forum is the knowledge of the boat and so many projects people share you can get great ideas modify or just copy them.

Carl I don’t know much about your model but it sounds like I would have gone the same route you did the boat fits your needs And it works out for you that’s great. That would have been a ton of work for you. I had the boat gutted out and started from scratch so I could do whatever I wanted.

[Rocky]

Real nice work Jason. I know how much work that is under that deck, and the drain races and exhaust with bulkheads are all so nice. I guess if you want to hear and see them, you can always add the flappers! Your moving right along, keep those pics coming we all love it.

[Rocky]

Tavis, you too!
So much hard work goes into under the deck nobody sees, but when done I'm sure you won't forget what a thorough job you did. Great progression shots thanks for posting those and keep'm coming!