B28 Rail Q.

[Yannis]

Does anybody know the height between the hand rail and the deck at the bow point?

I'm redoing that part (remove the pulpit) and I suspect that what I have is not the original set up.

Thanks.

[Tooeez]

I know my rail is factory original, so I will measure it for you as soon as I can. Setting up my ladder to get to the bow may take some doing, seeing as there is about three feet of snow drifted up around the boat right now . . .

[Preston Burrows]

Yannis:

On my '76 FBC it's 24" [63cm] from the underside of the rail [tubing] to the deck at the bow V, which was the factory installed height before I replaced a few sections of the horizontal and vertical tubing along with all new bases.

I knew I made a note of this [even in metric!] in January 2006 for a reason!

I used 60o bases for all but the aft most starter bases which are 45o.The V form I used is 120o

The Bertram OEM base angles were an odd size, I don't recall exactly what they were.......those notes are 'archived'...

[Yannis]

Tooeez thank you for the effort. It'd be interesting to see if they match with Preston's measurements.

Preston, thank you.
I removed all rail and closed all holes with a double scope. First, to remove the pulpit altogether as it was impractical (mainly when boarding from the bow) and not compatible with stock design. Also, to move forward by a foot's length the aftmost base, so that my foot can pass forward between the window and the rail.
Now I'm at a point where I'm not exactly sure what to do. On the one hand, I like it like this, without a rail altogether. On the other, it's a bit risky to have to go to the bow to do anchor work, without having something to hold on to. I thought to install a middle rail, from the bow to the middle of the fwd window ( as in the military transport vessels - mainly large inflatables), but I'm not sure how it will look like. In Greece where almost 100% of the time (whether mooring in a port or solitary) you use the anchor, the back and forth crew movement has to be safe. Especially when this work is done by teenagers...


BEFORE



AFTER

[Preston Burrows]

Yannis,

Much like swim/dive platforms for me bow rails are a necessary evil versus their cosmetics and aesthetics etc.

I do not have a bow pulpit, however for me having one would be useful.

Here's how my bow railings are configured:

[Yannis]

Nice shiny Bertram !

Me too Preston, I'm in constant internal conflict over what I want vs how the boat should be !

[Tooeez]

Yannis, on my boat it is exactly 25 inches from the bottom of the center connector at the peak of the bow rail to the deck.

I can't imagine handling the anchor in a seaway without the bow rail. Without that to brace against I would have gone for a swim more than once.

[Yannis]

Thank you Tooeez. I hope it wasn't too much of a hassle to measure it with all that snow.

So, it proves out to be 24-25" alright. Nice confirmation. I'll ask my technician to make it at 60-65 cm; I kept the 45o and 60o bases to go by.
What's funny though is that the tube pieces that connect the rail to the deck are not straight tubes. They are intentionally bent at both ends-with opposite bends, so that they can better correspond to the needed angle between the bases and connectors. I wonder why that complication...
What's the name of the guy who said that the problem with Murphy's law is that it's simply "too optimistic" ?!

[Harry Woods]

Yannis,
Still trying to measure mine which was lowered when I replaced it. The lower profile, in my opinion, improved the lines of the boat. I used welded aluminum including the deck plates. I will measure it as soon as the snow melts a bit.
Harry

[Yannis]

Harry, thank you.

I also think that lowering the rail looks better. I'll see how it works during installation.
As far as the metal to be used, I chose the common SS tubing with riveted connections. It appears to be the easiest way to mend it once you bang it somewhere...
Rivets are quickly removed and they don't fall out as the typical little alen screws.
The toughest part is to fit the wrench and hand to fasten the nuts under the deck. Especially on the stb side where the thick windlass cables run. When I was undoing the previous rail bases I called all the names possible, I even invented ones !

[Preston Burrows]

Yannis,

"What's funny though is that the tube pieces that connect the rail to the deck are not straight tubes. They are intentionally bent at both ends-with opposite bends, so that they can better correspond to the needed angle between the bases and connectors. I wonder why that complication..."

Likely the reason for the rail's stanchion bends at each end are as much, or more, for 'rigidity' than for fit...............an easily slip fitted straight stanchion between the deck base and rail fitting would not afford as much 'rigidity' with respect to the horizontal railing's strength.

As to the railing's height the original factory configuration is as close to being borderline functional safety wise as I would want it to be, anything much lower would simply be decorative from my experience!

[Yannis]

I

Likely the reason for the rail's stanchion bends at each end are as much, or more, for 'rigidity' than for fit...............an easily slip fitted straight stanchion between the deck base and rail fitting would not afford as much 'rigidity' with respect to the horizontal railing's strength.

Preston,
I hadn't thought of that at all.
However, now that I'm looking again at your boat's pic, it seems to me that your connections are not bent. It looks that way.
Can you confirm the above? And if yes, do you have rigidity issues ? It would be good to know before I put them up !
Thank you.

[Preston Burrows]

Yannis,

The stanchions on my railing are not cranked/bent at each end.
[The original stanchions were.]

Instead, when replacing the stanchions, we placed the rail fittings as far aft as we could on the horizontal railing to give some resistance ['rigidity'] for/to the stanchions.

It should be noted that my horizontal railings are complete uncut lengths of tubing from aft to bow, with the port and starboard sides being 2 separate but complete uncut lengths. The are joined by a 120o V-Form at the bow.The uncut lengths also affords some added resistance/rigidity.

But, not to worry, separate horizontal sections would work just as well - simply make sure that once you obtain the 'shape' you want for the horizontal railing sections if separate no worries as to any 'resistance' in fastening all together as that will help keep it 'rigid' !

If your new railing follows the shape of the bow closely you should not have an issue, the only 'large curve' is from the V to the first and second deck fittings...........a 'dry' layout will show you what placement/section lengths work best...........I checked mine on the dock before installing on deck.......

[Yannis]

Thank you Preston.

The 21-22 mm dia. SS tubing sells by the unit of 6 meters. Therefore, mine too will be a single uninterrupted rail, and if there is the space available at my smith's, it may even be one single unit for BOTH sides.
Also, as I said earlier, I want this whole rail to be shorter in length by, say, 50-60 cm, so that my 13 size foot doesn't stumble where (until now) the rail comes too close to the side windows. So I'll have two stanchions per side, plus the aftmost end base. And, yes, the plan is to go exactly by the deck curvature.
I'm keeping your advise and methodology for reference. I hope the end result will look much like yours, which I like very much.

[Navatech]

my 13 size foot

You can hang a small outboard on one of your shoes and let the kids play around in that...

LOL

[Yannis]

Blessed are the ones who do NOT exceed the normal human dimensions - in shoe size, height, weight etc.
For those who are over the norm a ...difficult life lurks ahead; can't find shoes, clothes, don't fit in the bed, car, plane, ...dinghy...!
As a friend once put it, "I,m 2m tall and I'm obliged to live in a world designed 20 cm shorter"...
Luckily, I'm within the norm as I'm only 1.86 (6'2") and Nike and Adidas have taken care of the shoe issue !
My son is 16 yo and there are kids in his class much taller than ...me !