Painting exterior--looking for input

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 14th, '07, 17:07

Well-- I am hopefully going to wrap up a majority of the rewire by early next week--- next step is painting the outside. I have awlgripped my decks 5 yrs ago with reg awlgrip and will be putting a new coat with non skid on them. Now the fun part. I want to do the rest of the boat. I have already done my cockpit panels and bulkhead walls with Awlcraft 2000 last winter. These were easy to do-- hardly any prep--surface is already smooth. I am planning on using Awlcraft on the hull and topsides.(unless someone gives me reason otherwise) I am looking for prep input. I will dremel out any stress cracks etc- and fill with west(i am assuming this is what I should do) and then spray with primer and then paint. Of course there is the sanding part of it that I did not include. I want a nice paint job-- does not need to be flawless - just decent. I have heard of using duralast and other primers, fillers that are in a tube(red colored--do not know the name) etc. Anyone have a step by step on doing the prep- including sanding grits etc. Advice also when spraying welcome. I am hiring the spraying out, but I want to make sure I am setup and prepared for this part of the process.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Feb 15th, '07, 17:53

Awlgrip supplied me with a step by step pocket refrence maual covering both Awlgrip and Awlcraft 2000. Every possible surface is listed along with detailed prep and paint steps. I am still fairing the hull with West System and yet to prime it. The Awlgrip web site may list how to get the reference book. Hope it helps. BH

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 15th, '07, 19:27

I did everything except spray the paint on my boat. I was told to roll on the primer because it will fill more of the blemishes. Sanded the primer down and paid a painter to spray the boat with awlgrip. It came out pretty good. Not flawlless thats for sure but I am happy with it. I was concerned about a few areas and wanted to fix them and then a Wise Man told me it was a boat and not the space shuttle. I came to my senses and went boating.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Feb 15th, '07, 20:02

Wise Man is always right. Do what he says.

Dave Kosh R.I.P. · Post by **Dave Kosh R.I.P.** » Feb 15th, '07, 20:10

Kevin did you paint your boat out of the water or in the water? Dave K

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Feb 15th, '07, 20:41

Kevin,

Rolling the primer on mine worked better than spraying ,and filled as needed, going to be painting the topside with Sun Fire by Sherman Williams Paints. Gives you both worlds of using Emron & Awlgrip, repairing a screw up can be done.

DQ

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Feb 15th, '07, 20:49

Doug, that's interesting. I have a brother-in-law who works for Sherman Williams, didn't know they made marine paint. I'll have to ask him about it.

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Feb 15th, '07, 21:01

Capt. Mike,

It costs about as much as awlgrip but works really well, lots of colors to choose from or make up your own color by mixing it up. You can scroll back and look at pictures already posted by me of the hull sides already done on my boat. I liked the paint, I've already used Emron before and Awlgrip, now its going to be Sun Fire.

DQ

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 15th, '07, 21:36

painted it at the yard last summer when it was africa hot. top to bottom new water line etc. Would not attempt it at the dock. Asa matter of fact I will never take on a job like that a again. All said and done it was worth it but way more work than I bargained for.

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 16th, '07, 03:32

Kevin- What kind of primer did you use on this? Also- what did you use to fill in the nicks etc. I have rolled Awlgrip (non skid for decks mainly)and I guess I didnt realize that the primer could be rolled- Rolling the primer would work much better with my storage program- How many coats of Primer did you use and what grit for your final prep before you had it shot. Like you, I just want my 28 to be shiny and I am not looking for the perfect job. I have a guy who can spray- I will be doing the prep. I will be painting it inside. What did you do to help prevent dust from getting into the paint?

As far as the paint- Awlcraft 2000 is right in between Awlgrip and Imron- It is repairable- Like imron== and has more durability than Imron but less than regular Awlgrip. Basically a repairable Awlgrip-- Still going to use Reg Awlgrip on the non skid.
Thanks,]
13 Degrees and Snow
Capt Dana

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Feb 16th, '07, 09:42

Doug, that's very good to hear. I can probably ask for a "brother-in-law" deal on the paint, maybe work something out with them. Not ready to do a new paint job yet, but maybe one season soon. I used the two part Interlux when I painted, and it has been very durable - no complaints with it at all. It is really formulated for rolling and tipping, which is what we did. but I think the next time I paint I'll have somebody spray it.

Might be able to ship those elbows today, feeling a little better this morning.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Feb 16th, '07, 11:14

Interesting about the Sherwin Williams Sunfire...
In what seems like a former life, I used to be a Sherwin Williams Industrial Coatings Sales Rep (power plant paint pimp), and know they always shyed away from this type of application.. So I did a search, and couldn't find anything in the marine coatings section. So, I remebered that Sherwin Williams automotive finishes have always seperated themselves from the main company. Did a search, and found it. Being a automotive finish, I believe it will be an acrylic urethane, as opposed to a polyurethane. Should be extremely durable, and relatively easier to work with than Awlgrip and Imron... But you will not be able to walk into your neighborhood Sherwin Williams retail store and purchase it, you'll have to find a SW automotive coatings store, or order online. Online is easier of course, but it might not hurt to go to the store and talk to someone who will be able to familiarize you with the product, give pointers, etc...
Here is a link to their whole Sunfire product line-up:
http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/produ ... &group=Yes

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Feb 16th, '07, 14:17

Buju,

You are right about Sunfire being available at automotive Sherman Williams paint store, not your local house paint store. Sorry for not making that more clear in the earlier post. If you have a friend in the body shop business, there you go!

DQ

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 16th, '07, 18:21

CaptDana;
I used the awlgrip 545 epoxy primer. Gouges and dockrash were filled with plain old filler...think it was Mikes, light and fluffy stuff you mix with MethylEthlyKetone(peroxide?) Not a chemist, or a painter for that matter! I used three coats of primer. All three rolled on, paying close attention to rolling it into spider cracks and sun decayed gelcoat. Applied copious amounts in areas with lots of flaws. If I remember correctly, I sanded with 180 on the DA and then 320. the real painters here can correct me if that is not the norm. As far as dust preventive measures......5 mph hour winds or less. Shot is outside in the yard=dusty parking lot. RoadWay semi drove through while shooting the bridge. The hull is easy to do. all the littly curves and stuff on the bridge are a nightmare if you are remotely particular. Layed down the nonskid with the gun also. came out fantastic in my opinion. Used medium silica I beleive....but barefoot and wet is still kinda slick. I have pictures for those that want to see a greenhorn paintjob. some of you may have already seen the boat at the Lauderdale show. Those that saw it could give you a unbiased opinion on the job. Just let me know and i can send pics. I would post them but I am a little behind the curve on that stuff.

A COLD 63 and windy down in the keys

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Feb 16th, '07, 18:28

Kevin, your lucky your from up here, cause other wise your rubbing our noses in it would be cause for a beatin, or at least a shiv

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 16th, '07, 18:50

yeah, I guess that was pretty heartless. Well, the ice cream truck is coming down the street.......gotta go.

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 17th, '07, 01:11

I love the ice cream truck comment-- I have tons of free snow that you can add flavoring to right outside my door. They say we might get higher than 32 degrees by mid week. Luckily I am in a heated building for storage 30x 40 with 24 hr access. I will be able to adjust the heat etc and dust should be minimal. I tend to overengineer everything--my downfall- my hullsides are in nice shape-- minimal filling-- topsides-- nicks and some gel stressing/cracks-- Did any of your crazing come back after the paint job? I hate to spend more time than I should grinding out every little crack etc. I guess lastly-- how many coats did you have to shoot of the topcoat color? If you could send me pics to captdana@grandhavencharterboats.com I would like to see any or all you have of the painting pics as well as your boat. I have 70 days to get this done---I guess the main thing is getting started.

Thanks
Capt Dana

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 17th, '07, 10:31

I did the transom and a wide stripe Black Strip just under the gunnel on my last boat with Sunfire. Actually I prepped and I had a guy shoot the paint.

Not bad stuff, supposed to be an Industrial Truck paint, a step up from the regular automotive. I still see the boat arounsd and the paint has held up decent, alot better then the stock strips they put on boat today, spend a hundred grand on a bubble boat and th estripe fades in a couple years and looks cheaper then it is.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 17th, '07, 10:35

However, I would spent the extra bucks for a proven quality paint on my Bertram.

The awlgrip on my boat has gotta be over 20 years old and still looks "alright" then again it looked alright 20 years ago when the previous owner painted it.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 17th, '07, 11:33

No crazing. Rolling the primer in fills all that little stuff. The three inch wholes in the gunnels that I filled even look good. They were the trip over clam shell vents...hated them. The circular ring that is always tough to hide due to expansion/contraction of the filler, no problem, the primer will fill it. If you sand it down ready for paint and sand to much off, just hit it with a thicker coat of primer and re-sand. 70 days to do the bridge cap and decks? I guess indoors will help a lot. Are you taking off the rubrail? it will be alot of long days and nights to strip all hardware, fill, fair, sand, prime, sand again, paint and re-assemble. My working conditions were horrible which probably slowed me down. I will go through the pics today and send you some shortly.

Kingfish · Post by **Kingfish** » Feb 17th, '07, 17:29

Kevin,

I also would like to see the pics, if it's not too much trouble.

Thanks..........

cahotrod@cox.net

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 17th, '07, 21:16

No problem at all. I will try to send you guys the pictures sunday evening.

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Feb 18th, '07, 00:18

sim,

Does your boat stay dock under a covered slip or high/dry storage? 20 yrs is a long time for awlgrip to stay looking good out in the weather/sun.

The awlgrip paint job I'm replacing with Sunfire only lasted 8 - 9 yrs because of fading out. Ready to try something different, 1987 painted with Imron lasted till 1995, painted awlgrip 1996 to present 2005.

DQ

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Feb 18th, '07, 00:48

Sounds like we need to see what the Jet Glo does.
The way I understood the paint. Imron was better than Awl Grip but it had to be sprayed. Awl Grip was good sprayed but lasted longer when brushed (theres usually more paint per coat). Sterling lasted between Awl Grip and Imron when brushed.
My experience with the boats I've brushed with Awl Grip has been that hulls last at least 5 years looking good you can stretch to 8 and they get a little flat and need a lite wheel. Topsides have been a year less due to use and sun.
Now you can throw all of that out the window if there was clear coat shot on top of the paint. The new clears have lots of UV protection and keep a good gloss.
As with any paint job the more coats the better.

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Feb 18th, '07, 07:18

the jet glo paint works super great being uv resistant.thats what i used on my boat...it came uot really nice.....

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Feb 18th, '07, 07:19

the jet glo paint works super great being uv resistant.thats what i used on my boat...it came uot really nice.....

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Feb 18th, '07, 07:43

if you would like some more personal info on the jet-glo paint you can e-mail the people that painted my boat.they paint jets-airplanes for a living.... http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/thereheis/ password is bertram

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 18th, '07, 10:20

Never heard of that stuff before....but it looks mighty fine! The only thing I did not do that I should have was pul the windows out.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 18th, '07, 11:21

Hey guys, I just sent you a bunch of pics. Let me know if you get them. I would have posted them but have not taken the time to learn how.

Kingfish · Post by **Kingfish** » Feb 18th, '07, 20:15

Kevin,

Thank you for the pic's. Your boat is really looking great.

By the way, if your ever in San Diego I have a job for you. LOL!

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 18th, '07, 21:06

No problem at all. I retired from the painting business after just one job!

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 18th, '07, 21:10

Kevin-- looks great- thank you for the pics. The gunnels near your mid ship cleat had crazing on them-- I have the same thing on mine--did you grind these out and fill and then prime/paint? Also- I was looking at your engine room pics-- nice job-- did you rebuild your engine beds? If you did-- how are they fabicated? The top of them look very smooth.

Thanks in advance

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 18th, '07, 21:55

Did not grind them. Just sanded, three coats of 545 rolled on. No reducer, just 50/50 primer/converter. It really fills crazing nicely. Sand again to 320 and had painter shoot it. I did not build the beds, the painter did. He is a glass guy obviously! Three sheets of 3/4 inch and 1 sheet of 1/2 inch screwed together, fitted, faired and then glassed into place. After all the glass work was done I put about three coats of BilgeKote through out the whole bilge. Good stuff! I have more engine bilge pics if you want to check them out, just let me know.

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 18th, '07, 23:04

Kevin---send the pics to my same email- Did your glass guy glass over the sides of the engine beds as well as the top of them?

Nice pics--- Your 28 hull is #22? How do you know that? Mine 28 is a 1972--On my way to it right now to work on my rewire- I will look at my ID Number.

Dana

Matt29 · Post by **Matt29** » Feb 19th, '07, 07:59

Kevin,
Do you think you can send me those pics when you get a chance.? Although, I am not ready to repower, I am plotting my plan of attack for an overhaul below decks followed by the exterior painting in the near future. It sounds like you have done alot and learned alot along the way and I'd appreciate any insight I can get.
Thanks again,
Matt
1975 B28 FBC

CaptDana · Post by **CaptDana** » Feb 19th, '07, 11:46

My hull ID says 28-5150 and then on the next line 624 anyone know what this means?

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Feb 19th, '07, 12:01

sorry about the confusion. in the email the number is not the hull number. it is the picture number. the number the camera designates. I do not know how to tell what number the boat is. I don't even care! None of them are the same anyways. If you guys that already have the pics cna easily post them here that would be a big help. If not, Matt29, I will shoot you some email pics later. Got to go change the oil in those Steyr's.

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Feb 21st, '07, 23:12

Capt Dana:

I think that the cracks near the midship cleat are from the flybridge compressing the midship bulkhead. When we fixed mine and took out the mid bulkhead, the deck had worked its way about 3/8 of an inch down on each side into the bulkhead. It was fixed by putting laminating 3/4 marine plywood to the underside of the deck by the midship cleat to spread the load from the bulkhead. I have seen a lot of 31s with bulges and cracks right over where the mid bulkhead is. My boat is a Sportfish so there is more stress on the deck, but I have seen this problem on Flybridge models.

BillinFI · Post by **BillinFI** » Feb 26th, '07, 18:51

One great option is spraying on gel coat. Lots of colors available from Cooks Composites. However, I am using awlgrip on the interior portions of my project B-25 (1962 boat) because while gel coat is robust and shiny, it is hard to polish out after installation. Areas with lots of curves and corners are hard. In addition, the original non-skid areas were formed in the mold - not possible for a re-hab job. I'll be using gel coat on the topsides 'cuz it is easy to polish. The effort to remove cracks in the original gel coat surface will work for a year or two, but in the end the cracks will come creeping back unless you use gel coat. Think of them as character lines! I too, am rolling on three or four coats of grey 545 awl grip primer then will spray on the final 545 prep coat before spraying on the top coat. I'm doing it in a cover-it shelter with a diesel salamander heater, struggling for every coat. She is going in the water this summer, done or not!
Bill

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Feb 26th, '07, 23:21

I know it saves money, and I know you can do it yourself- but please go see a boat that was sprayed by a reputable yard.

Then go see a boat done with a brush or roll and tip or whatever method you want to call it.

Consider the amount of money in materials and your personal time- it takes a while to brush all those coats on, even worse if you dont have a good work area.

Consider the resale value of the vessel using either methods.

Consider the gurantee you get at a yard, and the best part- the right to complain if you dont like something.

if you still go with the brush method- please use good, proven materials.
The difference in price wont be worth the difference in the longtivity.

And last- if you think you can afford to have it done by a pro in a year or 2, wait to get it done because you will end up paying more later on.

bertram31.com

Painting exterior--looking for input

Painting exterior--looking for input

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