Hey Capt maybe we should have a firearms forum?

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 15th, '13, 08:46

This looks fun, but of course I am a Sig fan. and a Glock fan and Kimber fan yada yada yada.....

http://www.recoilweb.com/sig-sauer-limi ... 33889.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Oct 15th, '13, 10:49

My 1911 is an Ed Brown....

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Oct 15th, '13, 10:53

I have a Glock.. based on comments several of the regulars here suggested about 3 or 4 years ago.

Am now looking for a small revolver for my wife.. she can't rack a semi auto due to a hand problem. Any suggestions?

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 15th, '13, 12:52

Frank, take a look at the S&W "Airweight" series (J-frame).

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 15th, '13, 12:58

IRGuy wrote:I have a Glock.. based on comments several of the regulars here suggested about 3 or 4 years ago.
Am now looking for a small revolver for my wife.. she can't rack a semi auto due to a hand problem. Any suggestions?

SW 38 spec/357 mag... Great all around wheel gun allowing you to fire either the .38 cal special or the .357 magnum. Try to get the 3" barrel for carry; more accuracy than the 2" and more concealable than the 6". I have a secret service 3" model in stainless steel and love it.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 15th, '13, 13:54

Frank,
IDPA 2 mag pouch on her none dominant side and teach her how to do a tactical reload on round 13!

No but seriously I would imagine a good gunsmith could do a couple of things to ease the action as well as enhance the groves on the action for better grip.

And of course like Patrick says,....revolver.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 15th, '13, 14:41

The S&W with the titanium frame is nice and lightweight but kinda pricey:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Lady Smith is nice:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or the Bodyguard:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 7751_image" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 15th, '13, 15:22

and teach her how to do a tactical reload

while somersaulting in mid air or barrel rolling from cover to cover. After all that's how the movies do it......

Before you buy anything and regret it, take her to a range that rents guns and let her try something till it feels comfortable for her.
In 25 years of teaching I have seen more wasted guns from boyfriends and husbands who buy something they like and give it over only for it to sit in a drawer and never go shooting because she doesn't feel comfortable with it.

I've had 80lb women shoot full load 357 with no issue and I've had linebacker size women freak at shooting a .22lr. There is no standard.

Primary thing to keep telling her, I want you to feel comfortable shooting it because if she won't practice with it, go buy her a brick to carry because that's what it will end up being.

After she finds what she likes and has shot in numerous times, let her shop for it with you and her take the lead unless she wants you to do it.

Then practice with her as regular exercise until she comfortable enough to do it by herself otherwise if there is one ounce of fear, she'll never feel comfortable using it to defend herself or you or family and any hesitation on the part of a gun user can mean harm or death.

And BTW if she doesn't hit the bullseye with it right off the bat, no problem. That will come.
Start off at 5 yds and learn to group your shots first. Once they have grouping down, then they can learn to move that group around to be more center mass.

Don't use silhouette targets right off the bat. Just use round bullseye targets or what I used to do on the first few lessons is use plain old paper plates. That way there is no expectation on hitting vital areas and bullseye and it takes a lot of pressure off.

One last thing, don't be surprised if she shoots better than you. Most women come in with zero expectations and an open mind to proper training without having had developed any bad habits that men and their flowing testosterone thinking that the 8" long 44 mag wheel gun or the .50 Dessert Eagle is the smallest thing a man can carry and still pee standing up.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 16th, '13, 07:53

Smith & Wesson:
J frame 38 ("smitty")
K frame 357
1911 9mm
Capt Special 9mm
Mossberg:
one north .... handgun permits are tough in NY
one south .... just in case

.... and Bruce, I agree, paper plates are some of the best targets out there !!

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 16th, '13, 09:45

To mention a 1911 and 9mm in the same sentence is like calling out beetle juice 3 times.

9mm is for a Hi Power, Beretta 92, Glock, FNH or others, not a traditional 1911 John Moses Browning design. AHHHHHHHH!

Say 6 hail glocks and 10 our colts and you shall be absolved of your sins my son.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 16th, '13, 10:19

One of the things I found interesting regarding that 5.11 tactical 1911 was the flat trigger. Certainly not ergonomically comfortable? My thought was less finger on the trigger to reduce mashing? May cause one to get the exact center or the greatest dexterity of the finger directly in the center for proper press and surprise trigger break? Anyone shot a flat trigger?

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 16th, '13, 11:10

Mark,
Triggers are a personal preference. I found I did not like the flat trigger style. Since my finger is curved, I felt a curved trigger feels better to me.
Many seem to like it but I'm wondering if its more of a factory trigger to custom trigger they are feeling rather than ergonomics.

I also found it more difficult fitting my finger with even lite weight gloves on without having a hugh trigger guard which would look like stupid unless one lives in Artic temps.

Those with larger hands and fingers I would guess would have trouble inserting their finger in the guard to squeeze the trigger, rather catch the side of the trigger and have a tendency to pull your shots to the side. Don't know if thats the truth but the like comments I see tend to come from people with smaller hands.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Oct 16th, '13, 12:16

Bruce wrote:To mention a 1911 and 9mm in the same sentence is like calling out beetle juice 3 times.

9mm is for a Hi Power, Beretta 92, Glock, FNH or others, not a traditional 1911 John Moses Browning design. AHHHHHHHH!

Say 6 hail glocks and 10 our colts and you shall be absolved of your sins my son.

If that's my only sin today ... it is a good day !!
Technically a S&W model 639.

....and for any of you characters that are wonderig .... I fire it "upright" not "sideways" :-D

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 16th, '13, 12:59

Bertramp wrote:
....and for any of you characters that are wonderig .... I fire it "upright" not "sideways" :-D

LOL!!

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 16th, '13, 14:44

Bruce speaks the truth. Beg borrow or rent each gun before you buy it. My wife was told she needed a G27, then a pocket gun because of her small hand, Then this and that. I finially got her to shoot each gun and she liked the S&W bodyguard. She likes shooting it and carries more than me. Practices and practice If she enjoys it then she will get better.
If I would have bought my wife each gun she thought she wanted I would be broke.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 16th, '13, 14:52

The 639 is more like a high power so its okay.

John Browning sleeps comfortable once again.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 16th, '13, 15:01

....and for any of you characters that are wonderig .... I fire it "upright" not "sideways" :-D

Too funny Steve!

If I would have bought my wife each gun she thought she wanted I would be broke.

But Frank think of the choices you would have on a Saturday night!

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 16th, '13, 19:59

Mark, don't she still has plenty of choices and don't forget the accessories to go with it. This holster with that and that with this. Its just like a new dress or pair of shoes.
Being broke is why I have tryed to stay away from getting into 1911's Because they are like cookies you can't have just one.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 17th, '13, 19:25

Frank I think most have seen this but I like these accessories!

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 17th, '13, 19:33

I have never seen that before. That's awesome.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Oct 18th, '13, 17:00

Thanks all you guys who offered suggestions.. now I need to do some research!

And thanks Bruce for taking the time and effort to put down all your sage advice! I will put it to good use.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 21st, '13, 06:21

If you have any questions, send me a ring.

BTW if the gun sales person says tactical more than 8 times in a single sentence or uses the phrase OPSEC, think used car salesman with saw dust in the engine oil and run.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 24th, '13, 21:17

Latest varmint smoker to catch my eye.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm? ... ory_id=557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 25th, '13, 07:12

Be cautious of any "signature series" product. While I know your smart enough not to fall into the "shoot like me" thought process, many are not especially when it come to a long gun.

Long guns can be very finicky when it comes to ammo. Nowhere in the ad do I see what ammo they are shooting to claim the 3/4 MOA @100 yds.
It could very well be hand loaded ammo who's load data isn't available to the public. A good clue to that is the 1 in 8 barrel twist. That is designed for shooting heavier bullets in the .223 Remington for better distance accuracy not the standard off the shelf typical .223 rounds.
They may even be using Berger bullets in the loads. While there a a few companies that load the heavier bullets, the ammo is expensive not like buying a case of Wolf for 375 bucks.

Shooting surplus or cheap commercial grade ammo could very well produce MOA's over 1" @ 100yds.

Besides as a varmint rifle, there is no need for a hand guard with a rail or side rails off the gas block or a muzzle break especially on a rifle that produces no recoil.
One on top of the gas block is okay for a backup iron fold down sight but that's it.

Besides it makes the gun front heavy and harder to control shooting off free hand.

The best accurate long range barrel has a nice crown on it and that's it.
They offer a crowned barrel but only as a awb compliant gun. I'd be cautious that the crown was not done properly.
A proper ad would have read- " Barrel option to include a target crown for those wishing the ultimate in accuracy and those who live in states that have awb's in place".

When I shot CMP and high power matches using AR type long guns, nobody had any thing other than a 20" 1 in 8 target crown barrel and we were shooting out to 600 yds with iron sights.

A patrolman's carbine is better suited to the rail system to hang gadgets off.

IMHO one of the best varmint rifles is the .22/250 round in a 24 or 26" barrel length if you really want to reach out and touch a prairie dog, coyote, ground squirrels or progressives.

Almost to the enth degree the accuracy lies in the shooter. I've shot guns who's owners couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with and done fine. Got some great deals that way.

I also had a buddy who's since passed but could take my gun with my loads that I would get 1/2" MOA @100yds and better that without thinking. I used to marvel at his shooting. Nothing, I mean nothing would move except his finger on the trigger when he shot. You could do a time elapsed photo and there would be no blur from movement including breathing.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 25th, '13, 08:18

Mark, I have a Windham Weaponry AR that I would love to make a deal on. Original case, tags still hanging on it. Its a flat top, with rails all over it. I bought it last fall.

I have another that I prefer to it. But if you or anyone else is shopping, its a nice piece. Lifetime warranty etc. Shoot me a pm if you are interested and I will fetch the details.

:)

Dug

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 26th, '13, 08:25

Bruce that's exactly why I put it up there. IMHO, many of the clunk heads that are behind the counter really have little real understanding of what they are selling. I am a relative newbie to AR platform rifles and as with just about anything one posts here the chance of getting educated is better here. My point being I trust what I read here over gum chewing pimple faced kid at the gun shop.

I was standing in a Gander Mountain perusing the iron one day when an older gent asked about a .38 he was considering as a carry gun. The counter guy, at least 20 years his junior (probably in his late 40's) started to tell him how a .38 was insufficient and he should consider a higher caliber. After some time the old guy looked at the salesman and said, "I didn't come here to get a schooling I came here to buy a gun!" and walked out the door. I watched in amazement and after the area cleared of people I walked up to the counter and told the guy, " if you worked for me, I would fire you on the spot! He just stood there staring at me.

Thanks for the input, I still have not snapped for an AR and am doing long term due diligence as it seems to me that with SO many choices this would be an easy place make a wrong one.

Dug would love info, not quite ready to snap, I'm still digging out of a hole and can't justify it near future, but thanks.

scot · Post by **scot** » Oct 26th, '13, 21:48

I still have not snapped for an AR

The prices have really come down. In 2008 I picked up a new mini 14 for around $800, because the AR's were all running $1200-$1400. My son-in-law just picked up Smith's MP version .223 (AR) for $695 new a couple of weeks back. He didn't go in the store to buy the gun, but couldn't pass on the price.

The main reason I wish I had the AR over the mini 14 is for the multitudes of accessories, and of course the Slide-fire (near full auto) stock bump-fire system which I want very badly! Hopefully they will produce a mini 14 Slide fire before too long.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Oct 27th, '13, 22:50

Scot,
I have a friend with a bump stock on his AR. It's great for turning ammo into shell casings but there is no chance at acuracy as the gun is all over the place.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 28th, '13, 05:38

Full auto has been vastly over rated... Especially by Hollywood... Bump fire is even worse as the bump itself causes an inherent degradation of your accuracy...

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 28th, '13, 09:00

Mark, I will dig up the info and send you a note.

Dug

Gert van Leest · Post by **Gert van Leest** » Oct 28th, '13, 15:17

Go ahead punk make my day !!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 29th, '13, 02:58

Gert van Leest wrote:Go ahead punk make my day !!

And, in NL, YOU have a very good chance of landing in jail (for having the audacity to defend yourself)!... Even under the revised policies...

FYI, I voted for PVV... Go Geert!...

Gert van Leest · Post by **Gert van Leest** » Oct 29th, '13, 15:15

I do !!

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 29th, '13, 19:44

Gert van Leest wrote:I do !!

Errr… How do I put this delicately?!… I realize both of you are blond but that was Go Geert (as in Wilders) and not Go Gert…

Just kidding :-)

scot · Post by **scot** » Oct 29th, '13, 20:00

the gun is all over the place

.. I say, who cares!!

Guys>>> It has nothing to do with accuracy, if you want accuracy, lock the stock, aim the rifle and pull the trigger once! Slide fire system is for burning rounds at a high rate of speed (for fun).

I do completely agree with Mark about turning perfectly good ammo into empty brass!! Nice.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 30th, '13, 06:21

scot wrote:for fun

IMHO, for fun nothing beats a "Ma Deuce" (a.k.a. M2 Machine Gun a.k.a. Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun)… A close second is the 20 mm Oerlikon… Interestingly, BOTH of these have their DIRECT roots in the late part of WWI…

Being a member of the so called "light battery" was a drag because every time we got back to port we had to clean them whether they had been used or not… Two reasons for this: once out to sea we would test fire a few rounds and then just put them on "safe" after locking the mount… No unloading no unlocking!… And, even if that wasn't the case, the maritime environment is hell on these weapons…

Steel wool, grease and buckets of oil and still they'd be "reddish" 24 hours out… Especially the units on the deck mounts… Never had a misfire though :-)

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Oct 30th, '13, 06:50

Any full auto will put a smile on the face of one who hasn't had the displeasure of ammo costs, cleaning, changing barrels, adjusting head space, and maintenance in general and given the NFA registry here and the limited availability in surplus parts, the cost.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Oct 30th, '13, 08:17

Bruce wrote:Any full auto will put a smile on the face of one who hasn't had the displeasure of ammo costs, cleaning, changing barrels, adjusting head space, and maintenance in general and given the NFA registry here and the limited availability in surplus parts, the cost.

Aside from having had to pay for the ammo and/or having had a spare parts issue I've dealt with all of the above… Each mount had a "tool box" next to it containing a couple of gauges and a pair of heat resistant gloves… A spare barrel was located in a special water tight tube under the "ready-use" ammo boxes… If you think changing barrels or making adjustments in a shop is work think again… Compared to having to do it under combat training conditions is a whole different kettle of fish… While I have seen action I never had to do any of those things under combat conditions… But, I was made ready for it…

Do it, do it again, and again, and again ad infinitum or until you can do it by muscle memory alone...

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 11th, '13, 11:15

on a side note
my son in law is getting me on base to shoot the 50 cal machine gun
next month, cant wait, hes a instructor in heavy machine gun
at camp lejeune

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Nov 11th, '13, 11:46

Printed 1911!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2062246/ ... k.nl_today" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 11th, '13, 13:21

Charlie,
You'll have a blast and be grinning every time you think of it.
Every time a round goes off in that M2HB 50 cal, think your getting back 5 bucks in tax dollar fun!

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 11th, '13, 13:36

bruce I figure a few thousand rounds should do it

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Nov 11th, '13, 15:50

Charlie J wrote:bruce I figure a few thousand rounds should do it

One ammo box (100 rounds) WILL do it… The rest will just fixate the experience (and maybe start an addiction) :-)

What you might want to do, if allowed, is line up two ammo boxes, pull the end of the belt from the bottom of the first ammo box, pull one round from the metal links, use that round to hook up the first round of the second belt… Fire for a couple of seconds, reacquire the target, repeat until you run out of rounds… It will seem like you're firing for ever ;-)

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Nov 16th, '13, 08:48

Anybody know anything about these folks?

http://www.undergroundtactical.com/prod ... maker-std/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Jan 7th, '14, 18:12

New from Sig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FPoZC8oWT4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 8th, '14, 10:31

Sort of an auto Dan Wesson! I don't compete so I don't see a need for it.