New cabin door.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 1st, '13, 15:40

I have a tough question for the pro's .i am building a new raised panel mahogany door. 1 3/8" thick so I can use real stainless hinges (3) but most of all a real stainless door knob and key lock. The interior will be raised panel varnish mahogany and the outside will be awlgrip painted .now for the experts ;how do. You paint the raised panel without the telltale paint cracking around the edges where the panel expands and contracts in the styles .i will have a middle style and limousine one way glass on top to matching rest of boat windows.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jul 1st, '13, 16:53

Bob,

A B31 cabin door is tiny in comparison to even a single residential entry door, more like a broom closet door... Forget about floating the panel in the styles and epoxy the parts together. Your expansion/contraction of the panel would be absolutely minimal.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 1st, '13, 17:15

I have had numerous problems over the years in my house and I am " she'll shocked" when I think of those 6 raised panel door that show paint cracks along seam of insert .i have strips the doors over the years and changed to latex paint that solve problem plus a/ c Or heat keeping indoor temperature exactly 70 degrees thru all seasons I cannot due this in boat and don't know awlgrip ability to expand contract on bottom door panel.i would love to go all varnish but don't want maintenance in cockpit area. Thank you for getting a post so quickly. Wait till you come to Greenport I reinvented the wheel in cabin .imnprovement 1000 percent! Sliding raised panel door in head --------- all stupid Bertram design solved.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 1st, '13, 18:16

Bob...

I am not a pro, just an amateur who has to do his own work.

Capt Patrick is probably correct in that you probably don't need to be concerned, but I offer the following that I have done with larger raised panel doors.

Paint the raised panels with a couple of coats of the final paint you plan to use... before you assemble the panels into the stiles and rails. In this way if the panels do shrink they will expose painted wood, not bare wood. I have also floated the raised panels in 4200.. in this way if the panels shrink or expand the bond lines will still be sealed against water intrusion.

Food for thought

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 1st, '13, 18:27

Sounds like a good idea paint prior with top coat and if panel shift tell tale mahogany will not show.thats a easy solution .lets see what our work shop expert up in New England says.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jul 1st, '13, 20:53

+1 for finishing the panels before assembly. I do this regardless of the application or the finish type. Of course, if you seal all the pieces with epoxy before finishing, you probably don't need to worry about expansion/contraction at all, since no moisture will be moving in or out of the wood. This would free you to epoxy the panels in place - no chance of a rattling door. Cut your joints a bit loose if you use the epoxy. I don't often get paid for woodworking, but my wife is a great cook!

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jul 2nd, '13, 06:25

My new door.

Almost ready.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 2nd, '13, 07:11

Classic mike real nice. I rebuilt the old cabin door and install glass and in 5 years the original door lamination starting seperating now time to make solid rails and styles.the three router bits that make the classic raised panel are easy to use and make a real strong joint. I use this same application to make my sliding door for head door totally disappears creating good air circulation in head and avoid the children getting stuck in cabin when cabin door interlocked with head door by way of interior door knob truly a dumb design .

scot · Post by **scot** » Jul 2nd, '13, 18:40

That's a good looking door Mike, beautiful wood, the grain almost has a burled look to it. Very nice.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Jul 2nd, '13, 19:44

That is a nice door! Might as well toss it up on some saw horses and clean a few fish on it and get it over with! :)

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jul 3rd, '13, 07:40

Nice door, Mike. I like the vertical bookmatch of the panels and the scale. Can you tell us what the rough dimensions are for the overall door and the stiles width? thanks. You and Bob are inspiring me to make something better than a slab of King Starboard for my center console door.

Cam

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 3rd, '13, 08:35

mike ohlstein wrote:My new door.

Almost ready.

hummmm could it be randalls work, looks great.
iam going to need one in the future, frank are you listening, lol

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jul 3rd, '13, 09:43

That would be Randall's work.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 3rd, '13, 14:22

Charlie...

I will be happy to build you a door.. anything for a new neighbor! I can't figure out how to post a picture of the one I built since the new Photobucket program came out. When I do I will post one here.

See you in about 10 days or so. Let me know if you need anything.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 3rd, '13, 17:22

thanks frank, leaving on the 13th
engines getting some maintance work
2 new tranni coolers going in next week
cooling system flushed out

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Jul 3rd, '13, 19:35

Charlie you running her down or back of a truck? Won't be quite the same at the rendevous without you and your 31..BH
Cant wait to see that door Bob..sounds like you got it figured out..BH

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 4th, '13, 05:40

bob
she will be taking 95 down, once I get settled in

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 6th, '13, 10:30

I took another tack on all of this. While in Essex MD. visiting a friend (and with the two door sizes in my traveling file) we went to a wooden boat graveyard. Very sad place seeing all of those formerly gorgeous boats slowly becoming mulch. I asked the proprietor whether he had any doors about xxx size and he said he only had two doors in the place that were viable. Can't remember from what brand of boat they came but had to trim an eighth of an inch from one to fit. Removed the hardware, stripped to the beautiful Philippine mahogany, several coats of satin varnish and voila!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 6th, '13, 12:37

WOW that stunning ,the classic look that a Bertram deserves.sorry guys no shiny gel coat could ever compare to woodwork like this!! You should be real proud of this interior----------well done

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 6th, '13, 18:45

Bob,
Many thanks, Pal. Fortunately you can't see the rest of the incomplete interior. Am in the process of completion now. Have been promising myself to get on with it for four years but work kept getting in the way. Answer? Quit all work except when Hollywood calls. The only serious work I have had this summer was a week on House of Cards so plenty of time to work on Dreamsicle. She's getting there. Picture as I progress.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jul 6th, '13, 19:08

That is really nice. Love the bifold door and the electric in such a convenient spot.

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Jul 7th, '13, 10:05

The door looks great. I like the bifold that way it doesn't get in the way of the head door. My panel is in the same spot protected by the door when open, But gets in the way of the door to the head. I have like the curve door that Capt. Patrick did on bubby boy. I have been thinking about a sliding door also. Look great love the wood.

randall · Post by **randall** » Jul 8th, '13, 07:28

actually my friend gerry built the door using mikes center panels. i finished it and mounted the hardware. will hang on the boat shortly. my question is.......why paint at all?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 8th, '13, 07:58

My son was insisting on it to match bulkhead wall and uv would play havoc on exposed unlike interior wood door ,draws,and cabinet doors which requie zero maintenance . My boat so it's going to be vanish .somehow I will deal with peeling varnish.i have teak pod on bridge that is expose to sun part of day anyway and is going on 7 years with zero maintenance . I use 6 coats awlgrip varnish,then ten coat of Awlbright clear. Most likely going to ask buju to reveal his secrets or captain Patrick to give advise for varnish exposed to sun but not water as in transom.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 8th, '13, 08:13

Peter,
Thanks. Couldn't believe my luck when I got those doors home and realized what an advantage the bi-fold would be.
Here's the other side of the electric - at least the beginning.

Bob,
When Dreamsicle's in storage or just at home I hang a sheet over the outside of the door. Ain't pretty but saves the varnish!

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jul 8th, '13, 09:30

Mike O -- same address as before? Let me know what weekend you are going out of town too......seeing as how I only have a center console, there is no need to steal your door I guess.

Tom

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 8th, '13, 12:57

Electric------what's not to like!! and 3 battery switches tell me you read the book.
I put a towel over the pod when docked ,very easy and should prolong vanish life exposed to direct sun.so far so good.

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Jul 12th, '13, 18:03

I have to make a new cabin and bathroom door I laminated two 1/2" pieces of marine plywood before on the old 31 but it was heavy anyone have any ideas on a better way?

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Jul 13th, '13, 07:28

Coosa board glassed over with teak veneer on both sides. Thinned west with uv inhibiter, then varnish. Gotta core the edge w teak for the hardware. Light, strong and beautiful.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:40

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:46

i took randall`s advice make out of wood and varnish both sides. i choose ogee as a profile on both sides of 13/8" door with 1/2" space for teak insert on bottom of door and no profile on top inside to install 1/4" tempered limousine tint glass to match rest of windows. at the three styles i remove profile and use 14 -1/2" dowels 3" long set in epoxy in addition to the normal short tenon like cabinet doors.i use my cousins work shop for most operations.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:48

close up of profile done on router table.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:52

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:53

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jul 18th, '13, 19:54

Bob,

Put down the tools and get out of your cousins work shop there are blue fins all over the place.

Looks good.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 18th, '13, 20:01

going east tomorrow .reports of biggies around coinbria wreck.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jul 18th, '13, 20:54

I heard over 100 boats on it today. A couple guys said total chaos out there.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 19th, '13, 07:51

Bob,
Now that's nice work! Want to see the finished job of course.
But for now follow Peter's advice and get out there, they won't be there for long.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 21st, '13, 20:04

now we glue the door together with clamps to prevent door from cupping due to pressure on glue joints from clamps

randall · Post by **randall** » Jul 22nd, '13, 16:08

nice work bob!

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 24th, '13, 12:52

Here is my new cabin door.. all teak, with laminated (automobile type) glass

I have been having problems posting Photobucket pics since their new system came out a couple of months ago.. this is a test.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jul 24th, '13, 13:35

looks great frank, but better in person, thanks for yesterday

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 24th, '13, 23:09

Charlie...

The pleasure was ours! And thanks for the wine!

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 25th, '13, 08:55

Frank,
Tell me about the hardware. What is the door latch? Does it lock?
Thanks

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 25th, '13, 10:16

Frank the door looks great nice accent to the cockpit and you really have a eye appealing grain in that teak! Well done!

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 25th, '13, 10:17

Mikey...

I looked long and hard to find door latches/locks that I could use after I built the door.. finally found these people...

http://www.thebrassworksinc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I finally installed was a #3448 Pocket Door lock, made in Italy. It locks with a key similar to the old cast skeleton keys.. not the modern keys made from flat brass plate. The handles are recessed into the trim plates on both sides so there is nothing sticking outside the door stile surface... something I realized I needed if I wanted the door to slide completely out of the door opening. The inside and outside are the same, so you can install it on either edge of the door. All parts are made of stainless I believe.

I called the above company and the woman I spoke with was very knowledgeable and suggested a pocket door lock.. and the #3448 was one of the least expensive with all the features I wanted. This isn't one of the beautiful expensive pieces of marine hardware you find on megayachts.. just a simple stainless latch/lock. When I saw one on the door of a local custom 65' sportfish I thought if it was good enough for a million plus dollar boat, it was good enough for my B33.

It came with 3 keys.. I bought a couple extra so I have some spares if I lose one.

If you do buy one let me know.. I think I still have some of my CADD drawings with all the dimensions shown.

Frank

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 25th, '13, 10:36

Bob...

Thank you! Coming from a guy who does woodwork as beautiful as yours I am truly flattered! You have made my day!

The panels are actually cut from a single plank of teak.. cut in half lengthwise, resawed and bookmatched. They are butt glued along with biscuits for alignment and extra strength. If you look carefully you can see that the top of the panel on the left almost matches the bottom of the panel on the right. The rails and stiles are joined with floating tenons set into mortises on all pieces. Both sides are coated with MAS clear epoxy.. the wood was washed well with acetone, then a thinned and a full coat of epoxy applied.. then I sprayed 12 coats of Bristol two part clear marine varnish.

I bought 8" wide 5/4 rough teak and planed it myself down to about 1 1/8".. and had a local glass guy cut the laminated glass.. he also cut the glass for the aft bulkhead windows you can see.. I made the frames for those by following one of Capt Patrick's suggestions and fabricated them out of laminated 3/8" and 3/4" PVC sheet.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 25th, '13, 12:05

this thread on cabin doors by mike,mikey,randall, and frank really set the tone to how much pride we have in our bertram masterpieces.like the front door on a house this is the first opinion a person forms when they examine a boat. most people dock there bertram stern to the dock so that door becomes the first impression of the boat.i am glad i took Randall`s advice and went with the natural wood look here is the current status after removing clamps sanding down to 320 grit and seven coats of UV Epifanes gloss applied every 24 hours.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jul 25th, '13, 13:14

Bob...

You are correct.. a beautiful varnished door is an eye popping thing on an otherwise all glass or painted boat. I wanted to have a focus point that drew the observer's eye to something that had some character. I considered having a single panel below the glass but decided it would be too plain looking.. so I put the stile in the center. I draw everything I build in a simple CADD program so I can see when the proportions are correct. A half inch too wide or too narrow can make an otherwise nice thing look clunky or weak.. Notice the three horizontal rails are different widths for instance. In a computer I can juggle different dimensions quickly. Then, when things look right I "explode" the pieces and make my cut list from that. I haven't bought any mahogany lately but with the last teak I bought at $25.00/ board foot I don't want to make any mistakes, or buy more than I need.

Looking forward to seeing a pic of the door installed on your boat.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 25th, '13, 15:03

Frank the top style width was determine by the fact that the window glas must line up from port cockpit widow to door glass to starboard cockpit glass . The bottom style is made proportioning to bottom panel insert like you would on raised panel door for home .here is old door with glass across all even .i sure you you understand then again my humble opinion means nothing but the interior decorator wife is a expert on proportional,eye appealing add on to the Bertram .yea me the guy whom removed all the brand new high gloss gel- cote after just completing the windshield installation from the cabin interior." Looks like a mental institution" . That why new boats try to make the bride happy with cabin interior choices.