Strut bearing replacement blues

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 10th, '13, 18:11

The time had come for new strut bearings. Being the do it the hard way guy that I am, I figured I would take a go at it without removing the shafts. I really don't like messing with the PSS seals and rudders unless absolutely needed. No working room behind the tranny since I jammed the engines way aft. I made a little contraption to pull the bearing out and was quite proud of my design and its 29 dollar price tag. So far I have not had any luck getting these things out. I was going to take a photo so you all could critique my machining skills or lack there of and shoot some pointers my way, but the camera is dead and I cant find the cord. It has just been one of those days. This may be one of those sleep on it for a couple nights projects until I come up with the solution. I told my self no more projects this summer but this one needs to be done unfortunately. I will post a picture when I can.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 10th, '13, 19:31

Kevin,
Does your strut bearing have set screw retainers thru the housing into the bearing?

Btw i haven't forgot your package.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 10th, '13, 21:46

Bruce,

There are 2 set screws in each strut. I used a sharp pic to clear out thread sealant (after set screws were out) and corrosion build up around forward portion of barrel. Sprayed a bunch of penetrant but it may need a few days to get in there. Tried some heat with a heat gun. Was a little shy about the idea of using a torch. I left the device I made on it with the nuts torqued down tight. Hoping to wake up to the strut crowning a bearing but not likely.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jun 11th, '13, 09:21

Kevin:

Prior owner really messed up me getting out cutlass bearings -- seeing as how he used heavy duty loctite to secure them in place in addition to the set screws. Only way I got them out was to drop the struts (which involved digging some trenches and bringing the struts to my buddy's machine shop -- he sent me to get some Makers Mark (AKA, got me out of the shop so he could get them out without me watching) and had them out when I came back.

Tom

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 11th, '13, 10:01

A torch is your friend!! Just be careful not to let any burning rubber drip on you!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 11th, '13, 10:21

Kevin, when they are in tight...it takes a good amount of force to get them to pop.
If they go in loose, a good amount of 262 loctite will keep them in...but makes removal even more fun to get started.

I have seen homemade pullers for cutless bearings work...but with a good amount of work, both before and after using the tool...more often then not I have watched guys pound the hell out of the end to get bearing to pop...too much stretch in the screw/threaded rod.

The hydraulic commercially available units work well, but $$.

For me...I prefer to pull shaft, and leave strut on boat to avoid realigning motor. I carefully cut two slices in cutless...just tettering on going thru outer brass shell then prying out the slice and out comes the bearing. Clean up bore and press in, reinstall shaft. Seems like more work to do...but not really...provided your shaft comes out easily, which mine does...15 minutes, if I need to pull wheel first.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Jun 11th, '13, 13:20

Dont feel bad, I have seen the hydraulic set up give "experienced" mechanics a hard time

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jun 11th, '13, 15:23

drop the strut, slide off shaft, and take to a shop press old out and new one in

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 11th, '13, 17:34

Here is the puller. You can see the 1/2 inch threaded rod started to bow a little.
Thanks for all the tips.

So you can heat the struts to the point the rubber drips out?
If I decide to drop struts is it as easy as it sounds or is there shimming upon re-installation?

I am due for mounts and alignment so I guess dropping the struts or pulling shafts is not that big of a deal. Rudders have a little play in them so I need to figure out why anyways. The shafts have not been checked for cracks or trueness since 2005 so this might be the best time.......

conchy joe · Post by **conchy joe** » Jun 11th, '13, 18:19

Kevin,

I agree with Charlie J, take the four strut bolts out and drop the struts. Thats what I did and then VERY carefully used a saws all to cut nearly through the old cutlass bearings. I then collapsed the cutlass bearing and out they came. Took me about an hour total.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 12th, '13, 10:29

You can heat the strut to a point. The rubber on the edges of the cutlass bearing is subject to open flame, so it can catch fire. I didn't mean to heat it to the point that all of the rubber ran out. It is bronze after all so it has a low melting point (@950 degrees).

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 15th, '13, 17:46

Thanks for the help. I ended up unbolting struts. Hardest part was getting nuts past some paint on the threads, but overall not to bad. Saws all did the grunt work and then used hack saw for final cut and they came out ok. No way they were going to come out from my original plan.....they were in there good n tight. Not the originals, there were a couple score marks inside the bore from prior replacement.

Are all cutlass bearings the same? Any brands I should stay away from? Need to make a purchase so I can get this done, or at least to the point were I can start the alignment again. I read through the building tips on struts and now I think I need to redo my back plates and shaft logs/tubes. Never ends! I think I will at least wait until winter or below 75 degrees for that project.

conchy joe · Post by **conchy joe** » Jun 15th, '13, 17:52

Can't answer you on brands. I forgot what I went with, but my understanding is the 28 backing pad is fine unless yours have issues.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 15th, '13, 17:55

Are all cutlass bearings the same?

Nope, Kevin, they ain't... Buy only quality American made bearings. Buck Algonquin is a very reputable name. Lewis Marine carrys Buck bearings, as do many prop shops in S. Florida.

If you can't find them locally, call Bobby Soles Propeller Service in West Palm Beach: 561.848.6678

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 15th, '13, 18:55

Just looked up Buck A. on Lewis and it appears that Duramax and Buck A. are one in the same? Just want to make sure I am on the right course.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 15th, '13, 19:52

Yup, Duramax is the brand, Buck is the manufacturer...

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 15th, '13, 20:11

As already stated Duramax is a good bearing

Morse also makes quality bearings.

I live near Mobile Alabama.......we have a Mader Bearing (locally owned bearing house) as well as the national chain Motion Industries and Applied Industrial Technologies......Cutlass Bearings are available at all of these sources.....and at least around here they are on the shelf.

Sounds like you have the project in the "Straight and Narrows" now Kevin

hb

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 15th, '13, 21:39

Getting there. I am going to order a new set of bolts and nuts as well. Mine were a bit to long and some were stainless. Silicon bronze is tough to find around here also.
I need to reposition the bunks on my lift, too much flex in the hull the way she is sitting now. It was ok in the water but I think the tolerances could be better for bolting the struts back on. I just might add a keel block to the I beam on the lift to make it sit more natural at the stern. No matter how much I think I know there is always more to learn and an easier way to do it. Again, thank you for all the direction with this project.

conchy joe · Post by **conchy joe** » Jun 16th, '13, 06:08

The good news is its nothing money can't fix.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 16th, '13, 09:04

Buck makes the running gear, hardware, castings, machine work etc.
Their Struts come thru with Johnson Duramax Cutless bearings.

Remember, no petroleum products should come in contact with Rubber.
If you find it difficult to slide shaft in...liquid dishwash soap works well for a lube.

Petroleum can swell the rubber and lock up your shaft, it can turn Rubber hard making a rather annoying squeal or just degrade rubber so you need to do this again too soon.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 16th, '13, 09:56

So far I am thinking upon receipt of bearings to stick them in the freezer. I know I need to clean the bores out and get them smooth. What do you think about some 3/4 all thread with large fender washers and nuts to pull bearings in, with soap of course. Does that method have a good success rate? Nothing worse than getting a bearing halfway in and binding. Do you guys use tef gel on these things?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 16th, '13, 10:30

Kevin

Now that you have the strut removed a hydraulic press is the best choice by far.

But if a press is not available the Nut and Threaded rod method works very well. That's how I installed my bearings in the struts. Now with that having been said here are the pitfalls and things that will help.

Use a thick washer on both ends of the threaded rod....at least 1/2" thick. Thin washers are only going to deflect
If you can put a thrust bearing underneath the "Active Nut" it will eleminate the FRICTION that develops between the nut and the washer.......and believe me the friction will kill ya......the deeper the bearing is pressed into the bore the more pressure it takes to push it and the more friction you will develop between the nut and the rod........and BTW......do not use Stainless Steel nuts, washers or rod..........and a "Fine Thread" threaded rod will make the job easier

If you cannot buy a thrust bearing then for sure go to your local Fastenal and buy a "Heavy Hex" and use some sort of Brass or Bronze "Thrust Washer" between the "Active Nut" and the washer plate.

The freezer is not going to do you any good at all......the bearing will be back to ambient temp way before you can get it into the strut bore.......freezing and heating only does you good when you can "Drop" the part into the bore in a matter of seconds.

I know for sure that my Bearings are only .002" (two thousandts of an inch) larger than the strut bore.......I used a 5/8", B7 grade threaded rod and a Thrust Bearing......and the last 1/3 of the bearing was a very hard pull to get it into the strut bore.

My suggestion is to take the struts and bearings to an automotive machine shop.....give the guy 20 bucks or so.....and let him push them in......

Hope this helps.....good luck

hb

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 16th, '13, 10:39

If the struts are out, just use a standard vertical hydraulic press to press the bearings in.

The use of run of the mill all thread or bolts for that matter for press type work almost always even with good lube, will gall the threads.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 16th, '13, 10:57

Wow I think that information is going to save me some serious time on the learning curve. I do have a buddy with a bottle jack press and the struts are off the boat. Sounds like the home made idea can be done but with uncertainty due to friction. Going to save the time and energy and see if I can go the press route. I have a torch and an IR temp gun so this method will be far better than a sharp stick in the eye!

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Jun 17th, '13, 07:25

Kevin,

I too removed the struts when I replaced the bearings. Once I got the old bearings out, I wire brushed and cleaned the inner walls of the strut while the new bearings were in the freezer over night. They went in easily with gentle tapping with a rubber mallet. Then I just tapped a dimple into the bearing with a drill so the set screw had just a little dimple to lock into.

Like you, I made a contraption to push the old bearings out, but the two bolts bent. I nearly bought the commercial remover, but it was too much money for something I may not use for a long time. After the fact and everything was put back together and re-aligned, I found out that my local prop shop would loan one like the one I though about buying. The only catch was that you had to buy the cutlass bearings from them and they were about the same price as the ones I got on line. I'll know next time around.

Dick

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 17th, '13, 12:03

A Brake cylinder or small engine block hone works well on polishing up the bore.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 23rd, '13, 11:26

Kevin,

Olivier, our newest member, is located in Puerto Princesa, Palawan, Philippines. Here's a graphic example of roughin' it to replace the cutlass bearings. I'll let him expound on the subject...

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Jun 23rd, '13, 12:26

Hello everyone,
I'm happy to be here, this picture was taken the day I replaced the cutlass bearing, a day of high tide, allow me to start and finish the job, lack of opportunity, the cutlass bearing that I have ordered have an outside diameter too big, no problem: we must find a work shop and it is a holiday! city tour and nothing, the boat must remain in his position,spent the night watching the boat and its support does not move, tighten the ropes.
The next day, machining, installation of bearings.
It is true, I've not talked about making the extractor and the boat support bracket, the bow placed on a whell loader tire..... but happiness just to be the proud owner of a Bertram 31.
She will be ready to go fishing in september, not shure but working for that.
Regards
Olivier

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 23rd, '13, 12:51

A lot of information and nice to know I have Harry to bail me out if I ever have to change cutlass bearings.sort of sent a chill down my spine thinking about it. I have custom made struct/ bearing arrangement ,because they don't make a direct bearing replacement for 11/2" shaft in the OEM 13/8" shaft struct. I have 6" turned down bearing that extends 1" past struct face and the struct is also honed oversize slightly.removal of 6 bolts holding struct sure also be a wonderful experience they are install at a slight angle to compensate for shaft angle and the bolts are in 23/4" of struct reinforce pad epoxy in for keeps. I wonder how long cutlass bearings last?

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 23rd, '13, 13:23

Olivier

Welcome to the site. Everything you need to know is right at your fingertips.

That is roughing it for sure. Sometimes you have to do what you need to do in order to get the job done. The tide has come and gone countless times since I started this. I guess that is one advantage of having time on your side.

Been slacking on the boat. Bearings are still chillin in the freezer. I need to hit HD for a home related project so I am going to pick up a rubber mallet while I am there. Gonna try and wack em in and if does not work I know I can finish it with the press.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 23rd, '13, 18:04

Gonna play whack-a-mole are ya?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 23rd, '13, 21:01

I would take a whoppin with a Cat-O-Nine Tails and do 10 years of hard labor, get a job grinding castings in a production foundry and kiss my worst enemys ass in Time Square on public TV in front of the whole world before I would remove the strut from DeNada.

I went thru several routines of tedious alignment of Strut to shaft and engine to shaft alignment before I called it Macroni! ! ! Aint no way I am gonna remove the struts unless I wack the hell out of something in Weeks Bay.

Standard bearing/strut setup and a hacksaw blade and a cheap piece of threaded rod with a $12 THRUST BEARING and your done........

Now factor the tide and the clock and all bets are off......Olivier.......That's roughing it..LOL...but I see it as a challange.....bet your one clever dude! ! ! ...... wanna JOB????

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 24th, '13, 06:43

Harry did you use the original struct? My boat was a OEM diesel boat and came with 1 3/8" shafts.after checking every bearing made they did not make a 1 1/2" I'd Bering that would fit in the original bore of these structs and that when the difficult installation started .i wanted the sleek OEM struct rather then the new style buck Algonquin 11/2" massive struct.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 24th, '13, 06:52

Struct top flange is actually faired into bottom of boat . Like Harry said " not coming off to easily".

.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 24th, '13, 07:35

Bob......I fabricated new struts for DeNada. Several reasons....Bearing size.....Strut Location.....original struts appeared to be bent..... etc.

I will try to find pics and post them on another thread.

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 24th, '13, 08:45

I should have known Harry the master made his own. I feel I put myself into a a bad situation if I ever need replacement or God forbid run aground. My homemade shaft log extends 4" beyond hull and shaft is dead center so I have no room for shaft movement ,if shaft becomes misalign dur to removal of struct the F/G shaft log would self destruct!. I would have to remove shafts completely and attack cutlass bearings from inside bore with sawsall as indicated in above post. All and all I have my doubts about removing struct in a precision built boat like bob h, yours, mine .i did not just throw my engine in place and say what the hell! The struct s are part of the drive line alignment I say remove shafts ,even in my case the rudders have to be drop first due to tight prop to shaft tolerance.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 24th, '13, 08:55

A photo of F/G shaft log ,look at 1/4" gap around shaft not a hell of a lot of wiggle room.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 24th, '13, 10:13

Anyone know where to get strut bolts online? Fastenal does not have any silicon bronze that is the right size. Afraid of ordering from a site not knowing if they are sourced from china. Was going to try an clean the ones I had but found they were not straight. I hate spending the money and I know they are not cheap.

One bearing went in just fine with a mallet. The other required the press. All in all not too difficult with the right tools. Now I just have to wait on bolts to show up in a brown box.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 24th, '13, 14:16

Jamestown distributors has the correct bronze bolts make sure you buy OVAL head there that much stronger. I had to go with ridiculous long bolts due to struct built up and they had them -------- made in USA . never,never buy strategic bolts made in china

Gert van Leest · Post by **Gert van Leest** » Jun 24th, '13, 15:15

Oliver ,

Your my cind of guy !

Perfect sollution !! Love it !

If it does not go as it should, then it goes as it must

Gert

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Jun 24th, '13, 17:38

Kevin:

Try Boltdepot.com

If I remember correctly size 5/16-18 x 4 is about right for our B28's

http://www.boltdepot.com/Machine_screws ... 16-18.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or maybe it's 3/8" now I'm thinking about it....

http://www.boltdepot.com/Machine_screws ... _8-16.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also have you tried Parker Merrick in Lauderdale?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 24th, '13, 22:52

bob lico wrote:Harry did you use the original struct? My boat was a OEM diesel boat and came with 1 3/8" shafts.after checking every bearing made they did not make a 1 1/2" I'd Bering that would fit in the original bore of these structs and that when the difficult installation started .i wanted the sleek OEM struct rather then the new style buck Algonquin 11/2" massive struct.

Bob

I have to go through my old receipts to see if I have the bill from when I had my struts bored out to 11/2 from 13/8. they then used a thin wall cutlass bearing and cut it flush to the strut because it was too long.

Give me some time I will go through the gazillion receipts accumalated.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 25th, '13, 07:22

Tony I used the thinwall 11/2" I'd bearing but when I measure the od it seamed like the amount I would remove from bore would weaken it so I compromise but removing a little from each .needless to say I have a one of a kind dimension cutlass bearing but I never intend to sell boat! The bearing extends 1" beyond struct to Give more shaft support and to shed water as in hydrodynamics (a taper before the water hits blunt edge of struct which I also rounded.to sum it up i would have to remove shaft and deal with one size bearing replacement.my son will inherit the problem someday! I will make a note of that bearing name if you find it. Thank you

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 25th, '13, 10:29

http://tnfasteners.com/cgi-local/browse ... 8?cart_id=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the place that I found has the bolts. JD and Boltsdepot did not have them. JD had them but 6 inch was the shortest. I only needed 3 inch.
They are 3/8 bolts on the 28. They cost more than a cutlass bearing! Still glad I went this route instead of taking PSS seals apart. The bolts holding the struts in were mismatched length, composition and half the nuts were stainless as well so time to do it right.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 25th, '13, 15:26

Kevin I could not use even 4" I needed the 6" so somewhere around must be the original 4" bolts I use 1/2" by 6" oval head with double nuts and lock washers with a 1/4" bronze backer plate on top of the 2 3/4" of lay up. I think I gave the bolts to whaler.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 25th, '13, 15:51

Bob, when the "winter" season arrives I may get into the tubes project like yours. My struts are staying stock along with backing plates. I just don't have the motivation this time of year. Mine are tubes for the PSS seals but they transition into the factory tunnels which I understand are quite a bit of drag and turbulence.

I am even going to try gap-sealing the rudder ports when I am installing the struts. Every little bit counts.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 25th, '13, 21:19

If boring out your original strut is not an option, or if turning down the od of the cutlass is not practical and you want to keep your original strut......there is a viable option.

Use Thordon bearing material. You can purchase the raw tube and machine the OD to press into the Strut Bore......and the ID is machined to have proper running clearance on your shaft.

I believe that my original Bertram struts have a 2" dia bore.

With a 2" Strut bore you can very easily make a Thordon Bearing that will fit the Strut and accomendate a 1-1/2 prop shaft and if your strut bore is 2-1/8 or so.....using Thordon the same strut can easily accomendate a 1-3/4" Propeller shaft.

This is not internet reading or something I heard someone talking about at the coffee shop.......I have actually made the bearing for a few of the local boat yards.

The only down side is that if you get fishing line wrapped around the shaft and obstruct the water flow.....you will end up with a GOOEY mess......not very forgiving if it looses water lubrication.

http://www.thordonbearings.com/commerci ... t-bearings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 25th, '13, 21:41

I believe the thinnest 1 1/2" I'd bearing has a od of 2" the bore on my struct s were 1 7/8 So I took a 1/16 off bearing and honed the struct to fit bearing.i was in ideal conditions with struct in Bridgeport miller at S & K speed shop.like I said struct s never coming off again but I will consider these bearings when the time comes.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 25th, '13, 22:06

Even with a 1-7/8 inch strut bore you can use a Thordon Bearing and have a 3/16" Wall thickness........that's plenty.

After boring you will have to cut "Water Slots" in the bearing, Bob. Even if they are 3/32" deep and a quarter inch wide.....you'll have good water flow.

The pump industry uses a lot of Throdon......good stuff

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 26th, '13, 06:48

Good information Harry I wish I was aware of these bearings 10 years ago. Back then I had machine shop facilities ,everybody is retired now.