Cleats and Anchor

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 1st, '12, 11:07

The boat is over at Raybo and I may order a few parts....

First Bob and Mike used a fold down midship cleat, can't find it online. I've got pop ups on my flats boat but can't find large enough one to hold line over 5/8". Also wondering if I should go pop up / fold down in the bow. I am going with two cleats as discussed in earlier threads.

While we are moving the Danforth style anchor chock wondering if I should buy a new anchor maybe a bit larger not sure if I have a 13lb now just guessing it's just old and rusty looking, short chain and the rode is worn. On that subject, many of you don't store the anchor on deck. So there must be a quick disconnect somewhere between the anchor, chain and rode. What's the best practice/standard rigging there?

Thanks!

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 1st, '12, 11:38

Aacon makes a folding style cleat:

http://shop.acconmarine.com/products/23 ... cleat.aspx

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Mar 1st, '12, 12:28

Peter,
Acorn,Whitecap, and Attwood both make a 8" pop up.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... 7&type=pla

http://shop.acconmarine.com/products/26 ... cleat.aspx

Which is my plan for the spring. My anchor sits on the deck.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 1st, '12, 14:47

Flat Top Cleat.

They have many sizes.

Work great, very strong. The only issue (if you can call it that) is that the cavity holds water. I keep meaning to drill a hole to let the water drain into the bilge, but never do.

I believe that I went with the 8", but if I was to do it again I would go with the 10".

http://www.flattopcleats.com/

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 1st, '12, 18:34

Listen to mike this is the way to go.pop up have two drawbacks,they stick because the spring goes bad and the cleat semi surface mount the. The fold up as mike illustrates is Recess using the strength of the gun wale to reininforce the cleat (I snapped a 5/8" braided line tow a triple 40' pilling ) the ed but fold down is fool proof and can be lifted with your toe when your hands are occupied but easily folds down with foot when you need passage to bow.i would go with 10" if you need a double line at times if not get 8"

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 06:56

Have these held up?

CaptPatrick wrote:ACCON has the best design and execution of any popup cleat style I've found. I used the push button model on "Buddy Boy" but the pull up version on Hancock's B31. I prefer the pull up since it's straight forward and simple. No "switch blade" mechanism to possibly go bad.

Like Mikey, these drain into the side air vent dorade box, but have an optional waterproofing cup.

http://www.acconmarine.com

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Mar 2nd, '12, 07:43

Pop up cleats are popular and serve a purpose, just not sure the bow cleat is the best application.

Great for the mid cleats to keep the gunnels clean, making it easier to get around.

In the bow, I would go with traditional cleats.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '12, 07:57

The accon brand as capt. Patrick illustrates will work and no push button to stick in the future.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 08:55

I am leaning toward the Accon 8", they now make a wide-line in addition to the slim line.

Craig the idea of having pop ups in the bow and stowing the anchor below is to reduce snags for throwing a cast net from the bow.

Any thoughts on the anchor I'm thinking of going with a 16/17#, this is important because the anchor chock will be installed according to the anchor size...So those that stow the anchor where is the disconnect, between the chain and rode?

Pete Fallon wrote:Guy's,
I use a Danforth 17s on foredeck with 10' of vinyl chain and 300' of 1/2'' 3 briad nylon.
When anchoring in realy deep water with a lot of current I use a 23s Danforth with 25' of 5/16'' galvi chain and 600' of 5/8'' nylon line. I keep that set-up under the V berth sole.
I have a Fortress 13 with 6' 3/8'' of vinyl chain with 100' of 1/2'' nylon for a lunch hook or short term protected anchoring, I keep it in a plastic basket in the head.
When I used to tuna fish I used a quick release pelican hook with a trip line to the ignition switch at the helm. A quick tug and your off the ball.
The right size ball and a proper sized ring are the key to the ball style retreival method, don't forget the lobster bouy at the end of the line for a stopper.
Also don't forget to safety wire or zip tie your shackle to your anchor, I've seen too many anchors lost because of the lack of a safety wire.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 2nd, '12, 09:01

I'm using the 8" Accon pull-ups in the stern and mid ship positions. No service history yet, but I am impressed with the construction. I found them on e-bay for around $40 each new. "Retail" is over $100. I think the e-bay store was Sailor's Exchange.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Mar 2nd, '12, 09:36

Ignore that price...looks like Sailor's Exchange has adjusted their pricing...$110 per!! I just bought 4 from them in October for $160 total.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '12, 09:39

A simple ss shackle attach to top hole in anchor will do the trick.the large link at the end of the anchor accepts the shackle bolt.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 10:11

Cam,

I called Accon Marine and they said not to order through Ebay as they will not honor the warranty. They couldn't sell them direct for the discounted retail price but directed me to a reputable dealer

https://www.eddiemarine.com

slim line 8" for $88.50 each

I ordered 4, now onto the anchor which I'll pick up locally.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 2nd, '12, 11:40

Just another safety first item.....

I always have my anchor secured to the bow 'cleat' (I have a Sampson post). You don't want that thing flying off the boat in heavy weather, fouling a prop or two.

So pop up or not, keep it up when running and keep the anchor tied to it. I have a short safety line specifically for that purpose, but you can use the rode.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Mar 2nd, '12, 12:04

Peter:

Do you have a bowrail on your B31? I took mine off Tailhook as I liked the looks so much cleaner without - however, I never sent anyone forward, not anchored from the bow -- I ran a line from the bow around the starboard side - this line was secured below deck in the anchor locker and also secured to the two bow cleats - passed through the bowchock -- and then I had several coils of 200 ft of 1/2" anchor line which I used SS shackles to connect. Depending on the depth, I might need 8 lengths, might need 5, but everything was stored in plastic totes and done from the comfort of the cockpit.

If you are worried about snagging a cast net on a cleat, I would also be concerned about throwing a cast net from the bow of a B31 without a bowrail.

My 2 cents.

Tom

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '12, 12:24

I am with you Tom ,I anchor from cockpit and retrieve from cockpit.however I have a aluminum fortress anchor in anchor locker for anchoring in bay in 5'off water when waiting for slip on fire island. This also serves as emergency anchor for 1500' of rode and 30' of chain with 18lbs danfort.thats kept under cockpit floor with retrieval ball.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 14:14

No bow rail. I generally throw a cast net in the creeks and back days for bunker. I'll use a bunker snag in the open ocean unless it's dead calm, there's no fish on them or other boats fishing the pod.

I don't anchor in the ocean or do much bottom fishing, my general anchoring is done in the calm bay for a day at the beach I do carry a ball retrieval system for the rare case I do anchor in big water. I'm planning on deploying from the cockpit in those situations but haven't actually done it yet.

I'm also following the sea anchor thread as I'd like to be able to retrieve and deploy from the cockpit, I love brews idea of using a rod as I've always hauled it close and then used a boat hook to grab the float, never tried with the Bertram.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 14:38

ANCHOR...

Thinking through what I've read in the past, in this thread and my own experience I'm thinking...

600' 1/2" anchor line in locker

(2) 300' 1/2" stored in basket with thimbles on both ends with double SS shackles to connect lengths when needed

16lb Danforth with 30' 3/8 BBB chain with SS shackle

For light duty I can use the anchor and chain connected to the line stored in the locker and deploy from the bow.

Or run a length from the locker tied off to a cleat and through the chock to the cockpit where I can connect two additional 300' lengths and retrieve with ball...

Makes sense?

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Mar 2nd, '12, 14:40

Peter:

The B31 really doesn't lend itself to being a cast net boat -- not an easy boat to manuever around from stern to bow, and it drafts a fair amount of water -- why not use your flats boat for the cast net and then run the bait back to the Bertram?

I bet it would be more efficient and a lot safer.

Tom

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 15:34

Tom,

I've got a rail around the entire bridge so bringing the net back with one hand isn't so bad, at least at 38, 10 years from now who knows. The skiff sits on a trailer so it's a lot of work just to grab bait. It's not perfect but I'll make it work best I can.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 2nd, '12, 17:31

Peter- I don't know if you need as much as 15' of chain on your 300' of 1/2" rope in your basket with that larger anchor. I use a #13 Danforth with half that length of chain and have had no problem holding in Montauk's currents. If that basket/chain/rope and anchor is going to sit in the cockpit, it all has to fit somewhat neatly in the basket. I run my rope from the basket to the bow chock back outside the bow rails to the basket along the starboard side. In preparing for my anchoring day, I pull out the length I think I will need that day, anchor first into the cockpit. I then cleat that length (from the basket) to the starboard mid cleat. I then return the loose line neatly back in the basket backwards so the chain and anchor are last. The rig and ball get clipped onto the line as we get towards the end of the drop so it flips overboard at the end of the drop. I can let out or shorten the length of rope at the cleat. I leave that set up in the cockpit all season, which you may not choose to do, but IF you do, I suggest you slip a narrow wedge of teak or oak under your basket so as to let air underneath and not stain your nice teak deck.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '12, 18:36

Thanks Walter good info being at a public dock everything goes in the cabin at the end of the day. I'm wondering if I can fit a laundry basket in the sole forward of the water tank?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '12, 18:41

Walter do you have those rode markers in the line or do you just count off the line by arms length I would love to watch you some day . This is one aspect of wreck fishing that gives me the most trouble especially with wreck anchor on 200' wreck.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 2nd, '12, 21:52

Bob- I started out with colored tape markings every 50' but finally gave up after replacing them so many times. Now work on a 5' per arm spread measurement.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Mar 3rd, '12, 00:32

Peter P.
On all the anchoring systems on my boat the shackle is between the chain and the thimble on the nylon rode. I find it easier to carry anchor and chain as one unit, then the basket full of rode on the next trip if I am alone.
The small anchor with the Fortress is stored inside of the 181 quart Igloo cooler that is on top of the engine box under the passenger seat to Port, The front part of the Igloo cooler also acts as a foot rest for the passenger. Note I have and express cruiser, so there is a lot of dead space under the helm and companion seats, the 3rd anchor fits under the V berth cabin sole and basket full of line is kept in the head or under the sink where the old ice box used to be, the original outer door of the old ice box is still in place and there is a lot of room under the sink area.
The idea of pop up, fold down or pull up cleats is great on the side decks of the 31, nothing to catch your foot on going to the foredeck.
Just don't use cleats, the ones with the the push button pop up cleats, the springs that fire the pop ups only last about 4 months before they corrode and become useless. Accorn makes a good pull up cleat that lasts. They also make water, waste and gas caps that you don't need to use a spanner wrench to open them, just push down and 1/4 turn then they release upwards to unscrew, they have flush mounted fuel and water tank vent fittings that don't protrude out of the hull sides.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 3rd, '12, 14:40

Thanks Pete.

I know a danforth will fit in the anchor chock, will a fortress fit as well or do I need to stick with a danforth up on the bow?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 3rd, '12, 16:41

My fortress fit perfectly on the bow . Due to the extreme ocean conditions I put the boat thru i remove the anchor from bow and put in anchor locker. I purchase 316 ss hardware from someware on line years ago .A four Piece set that holds anchor tight with a 5" bungee cord .when I get time I will remove and get it to you or at least you could order it. Might be whitecap??????

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Mar 3rd, '12, 18:30

Peter I use g-hooks on the shackle side of the anchor line and on the chain it's a simple connection.

As for the pop up cleats the boat has had the spring loaded pop up accorn cleats on for 6 years with no issues. At install they were greased with the blue penn reel grease. Seems to be working......

Good luck

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Mar 4th, '12, 01:05

JP,
Most people and builders don't spend the time to grease the springs on the pop ups. I can see them lasting if properly greased, but the one's I've come across haven't had any maintance since they were installed. I did a survey last year on a "quailty" center console, had pop ups on all five cleats, none of them worked and the boat was only 4 years old.

Peter, the Fortress anchor will fit into the original deck hardware, the two fluke holders and shank tie down. The old Danforth and the new Fortress have almost the same foot print, 17 S models.

Pete

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 4th, '12, 10:09

I have much better cleats then those accons, no springs, and much more robust.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 4th, '12, 12:14

I knew it ! The man has a computer full of every marine product in the world .for me it would be part of the "learning curve" usually the hard way.peter listen to him .i don't doubt jp's method of waterproof grease on the button pop up's but most of the center consoles in our yards have at least one or two that don't work like Pete mention.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 4th, '12, 12:56

every year it the same old sh-t . my boat is winterize next to the forklift launch area. this time of the year we start to launch 1500 to 1700 boats . this is when irving jones discovered there is no way in hell that 38' center console on trailer is going in on a ramp so it ends up here because they have a rig to remove boats from trailers cannot use a regular forklift . the boat cannot be tie up because the pop up will not work and the yard man are beating on them to come up. that how i learned.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 4th, '12, 14:03

I order the accon pull ups. Not the push button ones with springs. When they come in I'll take a look, if there is something better I'll send what I ordered back.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 4th, '12, 14:51

Raybo Marine NY wrote:I have much better cleats then those accons, no springs, and much more robust.

These are the ones I've ordered in 8". If you think you can get something better I'll see if I can cancel my order Monday morning.
http://shop.acconmarine.com/products/26 ... cleat.aspx

Thanks. Pete

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Mar 4th, '12, 17:46

As a rule when your shopping for cleats for a boat like the 31- you dont want any cleat that uses the description slim. They will look too narrow and not very confidence inspiring- save those for smaller boats.

I have been liking the gem cleats, i am also a dealer so if you see something you like let me know, otherwise ill put in whatever you want, just not slim cleats please.
Gemlux also diid something almost unheard of- they lowered the price of everything they sell.

Your boat would look good with the wideline http://www.gemlux.com/catalog2010/cleats-cuttingedge

BOBMX · Post by **BOBMX** » Mar 4th, '12, 18:23

10" pull ups from Gemlux, http://www.gemlux.com/catalog2010/cleats-pullup, instead of pop ups and avoid the spring. I have all gemlux hardware on my Northrip and it is some of the best quality stuff I've ever seen. They are pricey but I had a hall pass to buy gemlux at dealer cost from Northrip for a bunch of rod holders and they have kept it open for me so I have been picking up some stuff for the Bertram until they take it away. If you are interested I can get you a price.

68302-ST Cleat 10" Wide-Base Pull-up Studded

68403-ST Cleat 10" Sleek Pull-up Studded

BOBMX · Post by **BOBMX** » Mar 4th, '12, 18:38

Didn't notice Raybos post, must have been typing. Anyway, x2 on the gemlux, I would prefer the heavy 10" pull ups though. If he's a dealer he's got the connection to save you the $. Good luck.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Mar 4th, '12, 23:37

Robby,
I'd like to be sporting a 10 incher also...that didn't sound right...what I mean is, I'd like to buy a 10" cleat for my bow if possible. I have all of the others.
many thanks.
John 713-906-0842.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Mar 5th, '12, 00:14

Peter P,
I would not use the 8" go to the 10" cleats, if your using them for the spring cleats you can only get one 5/8" Sampson braid line over the cleat, with the 10" you caan get 2 lines on the cleat. I have always used a double spring set-up where ever I dock, you never now when it's going to blow like hell.
Pete F.

BOBMX · Post by **BOBMX** » Mar 5th, '12, 00:27

John, I'm afraid the only way 10" of anything will be sported here is if it's bought!

capy · Post by **capy** » Mar 5th, '12, 11:40

Walter K wrote:Bob- I started out with colored tape markings every 50' but finally gave up after replacing them so many times. Now work on a 5' per arm spread measurement.

Walter,

Hope you have been well, I had a few minutes today and found your post......I used tape to mark anchor line length until I found the fool proof way to mark it.

Because I have oil-slingin' dump truck motors, the 30w detergent oil is as black as coal when I change it it out every 150 hrs, once, about 15 years ago I spilled some on my stern anchor line. It will NOT WASH out of 3 stranded nylon line!! I tried steam, degreasers, corrosion-x... nothing removed that black stain.

The next time I changed my oil I "painted" my main, 1400' long, 5/8 dia anchor line with a swipe every 100 feet...those marks are still there after all these years.

Paul

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Mar 5th, '12, 11:54

Damned liberal Department of Environmental Protection folks here in CT would probably fine you for dischargeing oil!!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 5th, '12, 12:13

Raybo Marine NY wrote:As a rule when your shopping for cleats for a boat like the 31- you dont want any cleat that uses the description slim. They will look too narrow and not very confidence inspiring- save those for smaller boats.

I have been liking the gem cleats, i am also a dealer so if you see something you like let me know, otherwise ill put in whatever you want, just not slim cleats please.
Gemlux also diid something almost unheard of- they lowered the price of everything they sell.

Your boat would look good with the wideline http://www.gemlux.com/catalog2010/cleats-cuttingedge

Very nice design with no need for drainage. I was able to cancel my accon order. Looks like gem makes nice fuel and waste fills.

On another note I picked up the 15lb fortess. I think it's FX23

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 5th, '12, 13:44

Peter due to the fact you are redoing the entire gunwale over.give some through to having three rod. Holders on each side .forward canted 45 degrees,2nd at 30degrees and stern at 15 degrees.fuel fill center of stern (so you can fuel up from either side).

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 5th, '12, 14:28

Another thing you'll want....

http://www.whitecapindustries.net/produ ... ductId=662

The flush mount fuel vent.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 5th, '12, 16:25

bob lico wrote:Peter due to the fact you are redoing the entire gunwale over.give some through to having three rod. Holders on each side .forward canted 45 degrees,2nd at 30degrees and stern at 15 degrees.fuel fill center of stern (so you can fuel up from either side).

Not quite sure I am going all the way around the cockpit, even though we had talked about that, the list is adding up quick. I may have to stop at the pillars this year. If I do go all the around there is a lot more to think about. And questions to be asked.

Gem lux makes some beautiful rod holders and keyless fills if and when I'm ready.

BOBMX · Post by **BOBMX** » Mar 5th, '12, 16:51

If you go gemlux on the rodholders go with the bluewater series.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Mar 5th, '12, 17:57

for rod holders i would only use rupp or lee stainlees steel

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 7th, '12, 11:02

Craig Mac wrote:for rod holders i would only use rupp or lee stainlees steel

In that case it would make sense to rechrome what I've got.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 7th, '12, 11:20

yes it would peter harv and i use this co nice work
http://www.nassauchrome.com/

bertram31.com

Cleats and Anchor

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