Boat industry in slump, well duh........

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 14th, '07, 20:20

CHICAGO - The annual North American boat show season kicks into high gear this week with five major expos, from Atlanta to Toronto, opening nearly simultaneously, including one of the year's biggest inside the McCormick Place convention center here on Lake Michigan.

The next eight weeks will be critical for marine manufacturers and retailers. Experts say between 40 percent and 60 percent of the industry's annual sales come from deals signed or leads generated at these events.

"The shows are really the No. 1 marketing tool for the industry," said Thom Dammrich, the president of the National Marine Manufacturers Association, a Chicago-based trade group.

But coming into this year's crunch show season, the boating industry finds itself in troubled waters, beset by rising interest rates, a slowing economy and the sharpest housing slump in 15 years, which has U.S. consumers nervous.

As a result, the industry saw unit sales decline last year â€” a trend expected to continue in 2007, according to Dammrich.

In an interview with Reuters ahead of the Chicago show, Dammrich said his members hold out little hope that 2007 is going to be any better. The reason? Historically, boat sales take a dip any time the Fed funds rate gets above 5 percent, as it is now, or when U.S. economic growth fall below 3 percent, as it did in the third quarter, according to the Commerce Department.

"I was just talking with a pretty large group of manufacturers earlier ... and, if we get a flat year in '07, they'll be very happy," Dammrich told Reuters.

But there are signs that even hopes for a flat year may be wishful thinking. MarineMax Inc., the largest U.S. boat retailer, has slashed its earnings forecast for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007.

And Tim Conder, a leisure industry analyst at AG Edwards, thinks that, as bad as the story is at MarineMax, it is even worse for other retailers because the Clearwater, Florida-based company is "the largest and best dealer network" in the business and "significantly outperforming the marine industry."

The bad news from MarineMax was the latest sign the industry is taking on water. Late last year, Brunswick Corp., the world's largest manufacturer of recreational boats, said it would cut more than 600 jobs as it responded to falling demand for its products brought on by higher interest rates and energy prices and deteriorating consumer confidence.

The cuts came after the Lake Forest, Illinois-based company reported in October that its third-quarter earnings dropped 59 percent from a year earlier as the woes of the Detroit auto industry translated into "significant declines" in sales in the upper U.S. Midwest -- a key market for the pricey toys Brunswick makes.

Scanning the horizon, Dammrich at the NMMA says there are signs of light. Chief among them is the recent dramatic plunge in oil prices, which promises to lower the cost of all kinds of petroleum-based products the industry relies on, including fiberglass, resins and foams.

Lower crude prices also translate into lower fuel costs at the dock -- a small part of overall ownership costs, but one that can discourage first-time buyers from taking the plunge.

What's more, while the overall industry saw sales decline in 2006, some segments did quite well, including the ski- and wake board boat market, as well as the jet ski and wave runner markets.

While personal water craft typically sell for less than $10,000, the ski boats can easily top $70,000.

Looking out to 2008, Dammrich said manufacturers are optimistic the industry will rebound. That will mark the third year of the "Discover Boating" campaign, the industry's first- ever TV ad campaign.

Since the boat ads began airing in early April on CNN and other cable networks, Dammrich said about 6 percent of the target market has moved from being "not interested in boating" to "interested."

Since it typically takes two to three years for would-be buyers to go from "interested" to outright ownership, 2008 could be the year the campaign starts lifting sales.

In addition, Dammrich is confident the Federal Reserve will have eased rates and the economy begun to grow by 2008, if not earlier.

"The combination of those two things bodes very well for '08 and '09," he added.

(c) Reuters 2007. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.

--------------------------------

While this is an article based on national exposure, the Florida market is much worse off due to high property tax rates, increased insurance prems. or cancelled policies( all you water heads that took 30k checks from your insurance company for a blown down fence are to blame) on homes and the inability to get insurance coverage on a lot of boats due to the hurricanes.

We're loosing 2 more boat yards as they are closing next week. E&H and The Ways. That leaves only 2 yards in central to Northern Palm beach county, Seminole(which sucks) and Cracker Boy.

The place I'm at is being put on the market in 2 years.

On the bright side, an article today compares Palm Beach in its violent crime to Miami in the 70's and 80's so my gun classes should fill in the slack from the tapped out boaters.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jan 14th, '07, 20:27

Boatyards down here are being baught and condos are being built. things are gitting wierd.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Jan 14th, '07, 20:39

And insurance ratres .+ $130 per foot slips for a 5 mth season(up here) and you can see why the industry is tanking this time

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 15th, '07, 08:44

As boaters and most of us are business men, there has to be something that can be done to help relieve the boater plight.

Tax relief for marina owners is a start I feel. Certainly property taxed at rates for current use and not potential development value.

Don't let the, "let the next generation fix it" mentality rule.

This group has got some brains behind it.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 15th, '07, 09:54

Bruce...

Taxing marina land at the potential development value, rather than it's current use value is just like saying to you.. You could be a brain surgeon instead of a diesel guy if you wanted to, so we are going to figure your income tax as if you had a brain surgeon's income!

Now, I know you most likely make more money in your business than a brain surgeon does, but I am just trying to make a point!

Thank your tax and spend liberal governmen officials for our stupid tax laws.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 15th, '07, 09:56

The boat sales folks here in Texas CLAIM they are selling a lot of big boats, but who knows. I can confirm the brokerage market is slow, from the number of friends I have with boats for sale. We actually have more marinas being built down here, instead of converted to condos, but there are a lot of those going in, too, and waterfront proeprty prices are going through the roof, again, for this area. I have a small lot in a canal subdivision, nothing fancy. The Property Owner's Association tells me it is residential only, that I can't charter from there. They are on shakey ground, legally, from a lot of stuff they do and let other folks do, so they probably can't stop me, and I won't be running an everyday business, anyway, but I hate to be hassled, so I've been holding off and looking for another base of operations. What I've found is that I cannot get a better place for anything near what I could get for this lot if I sold it - which would be a considerable profit over what we paid for it four years ago. Looks like the neighbors will have to hear the diesels cranking in the early morning hours occasionally - unless I can get a discounted slip at the fancy marina for the summer.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 15th, '07, 12:10

I can tell you that a fishing town like Montauk is hurting. Between the cost of fuel (both for boating and getting there and back), the increased cost of charters, dockage and general operational expenses, and the increased limits on fishing seasons and quotas that exceed those of our neighboring states, it was a much slower season than previous years. One of our major marinas no longer can afford to maintain a mechanical service crew (find and bring your own insured free lance mechanic who will kick back a percentage) and many of the charter guys are buying fuel from freelance truckers to keep operating expenses down. There are presently NO boats doing winter fishing which used to be a big thing here when I was younger, and it's a winter ghost town in comparison to the Codfish, whiting, pollack and mackerel days of yore when motels, restaurants. diners and shops found it worthwhile to stay open.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 15th, '07, 13:57

Walter, the feds closed our winter snapper fishing down several years ago (and are trying to cut us to a 2 fish per day, per angler, possession limit now), now they are shutting off grouper. The only other thing dependable in winter is tuna, requiring much longer runs offshore, which isn't always wise, with fast weather changes possible. Fuel costs are a whole 'nuther issue. I got a package the other day with a placard I'm supposed to post about protecting turtles, and notice that any holder of a reef fish permit, recreational-for-hire or commercial, has to have certain equipment on board to safely release turtles, including a big-ass net, various types of de-hooking devices, a special tool or piece of PVC pipe to hold the critter's mouth open while you go digging for the hook, and a damn used tire to rest him on, so he doesn't hurt himself on your deck while the operation is in progress!

I have NEVER caught a turtle on a hook and line while bottom fishing - or any other way - would not try to bring one aboard if I did, and I am NOT going to carry a tire in the cockpit of my 31.

It seems the government wants to put charter fishermen, in the Gulf of Mexico at least, out of business.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 15th, '07, 14:10

Mike, they're doing a good job here. If you don't own your boat, I can see no way that a charterboat guy can make a profit here. Between the dockage, increased fuel costs, increased insurance costs, annual raft repacking, annual permits and fees, sticking with the rules and dealing with a breakdown or two a year, they just about make ends meet. Some of the guys here are putting in a 3rd charter a day (twilight Bass). Talk about a long day! They do it because they HAVE to. What a shame. And it's called "Recreational Fishing".

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 15th, '07, 14:25

They're going to give the seas to the environmentalists - and the guys who don't worry about staying legal, or insurance, or maintenance.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jan 15th, '07, 14:42

When I was growing up.....still am I guess, in Scituate Ma. my father took me fishing during the summers. Some times we caught a couple, sometimes not even a bight. My father said when he was growing up in the same area that he never came home with out fish. There were no regulations that I can remember. Heck, I had my own lobster traps. That is not possible down here, not sure if it is allowed up nawth now wither. My father blamed the lack of fish on the gill nets. I hear that now people are starting to catch cod and stripers again but only you guys in Fat teddy land can verify that. What I am getting at is as the population explodes, naturally the number of boats on the water goes up, as does the need for poundage of commercailly caught fish. Over fifty percent of this countries population resides with in 50 miles of the coast. That's a pretty big number. Speaking from experience, I can't imagine the FEDS fining you for not having a spare tire and a hook removal device for turtles....at least in Florida anyway. Has anyone here actually been boarded by a Federal Fisheries Agent? If so, how did he get to your boat? I have never seen a federal fisheries boat. I logged close to 1000 hours on the water down her last year. Unless you are the captain of a shrimp boat or some other large producer I would not be to concerned about the Feds. Most small violations, if even noticed (lots of laws)are handled at the state level by state officers for the feds. Maybe we just have it better down here in the keys!

neil · Post by **neil** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:09

kevin,the fish police in new jersey are brutal to say the least. iam boarded a few times a year neil

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:13

thats cause you let capt jr run at 25knts in the cannels. then you got booze cruises 20' off the high rollers backyard docks. Of course you get boarded, and while your at it turn DOWN the volume of the rap music(oxymoron?) that your alway palying.

neil · Post by **neil** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:20

timmy uncle mark is the reason we get boarded so much. jr as you know is an upstanding member of this fine community i want you to google him neil franzoni jr you will find a series of articles and pictures of his new found fame notice all the nice pictures of bertrams as well

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:29

how'd you rig those? dug or scott help you ? tell capt jr congrats from timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmay

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:32

neil,
New Jersey eh. I have no life experiences in that state, but if the water cops are like the highway cops, propbably not a good experience when stopped. Heard the troopa's on the NJ thru pike or parkway thingy are pretty bad.
Oh ya, federal agents usually spend a great deal of time at the office on reports, so no worries.

neil · Post by **neil** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:37

http://www.briellechamber.com/gallery/i ... 6&page=all kevin check out this site and scroll the picture,you will see jr and i in the winners circle just like it will be when timmy hands us the trophy in montauk 07 neil

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:46

I miss the days of being the kid during the summer. I even saw a flounda in ther.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Jan 15th, '07, 15:53

looked short, but her mom was cute

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 15th, '07, 16:30

neil
you mite have some compitition on the bass seen, or maybe we can team up

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 15th, '07, 17:09

Now, I know you most likely make more money in your business than a brain surgeon does, but I am just trying to make a point!

You funny guy.......

Yea getting real rich making 30k parts and labor on a 31 repower that takes 4 months.

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 15th, '07, 17:48

no comment

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 15th, '07, 18:05

Boardings in Montauk are arbitrary unless you've done something really wrong. Then, it's guaranteed. You are signalled by the Coast Guard Patrol boat to stop and boarded by both the Coast Guard (Federal) and the DEC (state). They travel together. You'd better have all your papers in order, permits, preservers, flares etc. The DEC will open and inspect every hatch, container, and cooler you have while one guy taps around potentially hollow bulkheads. The best part was the look on everyones faces when asked if I had any weapons on board, and my answer was "yes, a loaded 357 magnum in that bag". I had everything in order including my carry permit and haven't been bothered again. On the other hand, if they catch you on anything, safety or fish violations, you will be remembered and you will be boarded again. Despite it's world wide fame, it's a very small place and boats are remembered. If you live there, you're nuts to take a chance with illegal fish. It's just not worth it. The commercial boats worry more about personal stashes of narcotics by their crews than illegal fish as that can get their boats impounded. A word to the wise- If stopped, DON"T be a wiseass. Be polite, anwer "yes sir", "no sir" and acknowledge that they're just doing their job. The NY State DEC guy for the area is Joe Billato and he's ALL business. NY State rules supercede any other location on your transom... and yes, we had LOTS more fish before all this "management".

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 15th, '07, 19:09

this is very true walt!!

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 16th, '07, 08:01

sorry

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 16th, '07, 11:46

Kevin, that's the big fly in the ointment for fisheries laws - enforcement. Down here, the Coast Guard does most of the federal enforcement, as there are only a very few federal fisheries people to cover the whole coast. They do board boats, and do issue fines. Unfortunately, they have other duties, and they don't keep up with all the new fisheries laws. Most don't even know that a charter boat fishing for reef fish and migratory pelagics is required to have two federal permits - so they don't enforce that law. This allows a lot of unpermitted and even unlicensed operators to fish and take charters on a regular basis. A friend in the coast guard told me he couldn't even teach the crews the difference between uninspected and inspected charter vessels, where all they had to do was count heads to see if the boat's passenger count was legal.

If this changes, and it would seem it will have to, with permits selling for several thousand dollars and no new ones being issued, fines might be steep. In my case, I can't afford to be nailed for a fisheries violation - for more than just the fine - so, even if I don't agree with the regs, I have always follwed them. I draw the line at the turtle stuff, however. I also got a notice about releasing all sawfish i catch in a special manner. Never caught a damn sawfish, only seen one live one come from this area.

It's just going to get worse. There are changes coming in licensing for charter, all sorts of stupid things, like requiring boats to carry alcohol testing kits to test themselves should they be involved in an accident. My license is up for it's five year renewal next September. If I make it through that one, I'll probably let it go.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 17th, '07, 07:18

He does not like tuna fisherman, or anyone who makes a living off the sea.

If that's the case, then this guy has to be removed from his job as his ability to conduct his job without bias is gone.

There is no room for a taxpayer supported government thug intimidating the very people they are required to SERVE.

What needs to happen is the boaters of the area need to get together and flood his office and superiors with factual reports of jack booted behaviour and keep it up until he is strapped to a desk.

Its one thing to enforce the laws, no matter how stupid they may be, but to do it in such a way where fear and intimidation are the first things that come to a persons mind when thinking of this individual should not be tolerated.

These people work for us.
Its about time they begin to realize that fact!

Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master! -Thomas Jefferson

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 17th, '07, 07:54

Bruce your right.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 17th, '07, 08:34

Did they get that on film (catching Tred baiting a field) for Tred's TV show? I can see him trying to play it as ademonstration of what NOT to do!

Bruce is right, people need to stop taking this kind of stuff.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 17th, '07, 08:43

lot of heat.

randall · Post by **randall** » Jan 17th, '07, 09:28

very close friend used to work for him.......i got stories......

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 17th, '07, 17:20

Plus you would draw a lot of heat.

Brewster,
With all due respect for you and I mean that sincerely, that statement is the reason why we are treated as we are by government thugs.

If the founding fathers had bothered to consider a preface like that, we'd be a part of the cesspool they call Britan.

I don't care how much money this guy brings in, you get enough people together and complain, he'd be gone. There is power in numbers, tremendous power.

I have seen it done before where a person was considered so entrenched that removal was impossible.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Ben Franklin.

I'm sorry for getting t'd off, but there's nothing more in life that gets under my skin than a government official throwing their weight around intimidating the very people they are supposed to serve.

I'd rather empty a holding tank on a sailboat for free using a syphon straw while listening to said rag sailer complain about the cost of fuel than tolerate that type of attitude.

Heat makes life worth living cause ya know you are getting to the bastards.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 18th, '07, 07:56

Bruce, I think that you are right and I feel that something should be done but owning a local shop and fishing boat doing anything could effect my wife and kid. Just talking about it even here scares me because of what could happen. I vote, was in the USMC, and think of myself as a good American, but, keeping up with bills supporting family and running a small store, risk vers reward must be looked at. I agree with I have the most to lose by doing nothing. I agree that if we do not stand up to this kind of thing it will only get worse. It makes me sick that I can do nothing because of my position and place in life. I think I know how you feel but these guys could crush me in one second for nothing and by the time the smoke cleared me and my family would be living in a box under an overpass.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 18th, '07, 16:44

Brewster,
I understand your situation more than you might think.
But its certainly not something that you would want to do alone.

Enough people have to care to make a change. Going out by yourself would be suicide as you suggest.

The only thing that matters to politicians is numbers.
Numbers mean votes and large enough numbers means a chance at losing their place at the public trough and any side work they can dig up along the way.

keeping up with bills supporting family and running a small store, risk vers reward must be looked at

And that's what they count on.

bertram31.com

Boat industry in slump, well duh........

Boat industry in slump, well duh........

Boat Industry

Fishing

Charter

Enforcement

B Baiting

Who is online